Curse

FalloutRebirth · Oct 27, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Overall the patch has been great. The AI is a problem though, it probably should have been implemented sooner, perhaps a month or so ago, so that fixes could be implemented before the release of Nightfall, but it wasn't. So we as a community need to let Anet know what we think and what could be improved.

I have had henches run off after enemies and aggro additional groups. Yes, it is an annoyance but we have to understand that they will be working on it and they will fix the problem. ANet has been great about fixing problems as they occur and I'm sure that they did not mean for the hench to act as they do.

As with farming, my 55 has been affected yes, but with a rework of skills for my old hunting grounds I have been able to keep my 55 going, just takes a little bit longer now. Also I have spent some time exploring and have found some new areas that look promising.

I just picked up Nightfall and will be adding my key when I get home, with the hope that Anet will fix the problems soon.

Gwmaster · Oct 27, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

am i the only one having some trouble with hench/hero ai?...they dont listen to me and attack randomly even if i call targets..and wen i set a flag somewere they wont listen. anyways

Eviance · Oct 28, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalloutRebirth

Overall the patch has been great. The AI is a problem though, it probably should have been implemented sooner, perhaps a month or so ago, so that fixes could be implemented before the release of Nightfall, but it wasn't. So we as a community need to let Anet know what we think and what could be improved.

I have had henches run off after enemies and aggro additional groups. Yes, it is an annoyance but we have to understand that they will be working on it and they will fix the problem. ANet has been great about fixing problems as they occur and I'm sure that they did not mean for the hench to act as they do.

As with farming, my 55 has been affected yes, but with a rework of skills for my old hunting grounds I have been able to keep my 55 going, just takes a little bit longer now. Also I have spent some time exploring and have found some new areas that look promising.

I just picked up Nightfall and will be adding my key when I get home, with the hope that Anet will fix the problems soon.

Thank you for saying what I couldn't in a polite way

*sighs* I'm just tired of people telling me (and this is with MANY bugs out there in the past and present) that we should buck up and deal with it... It's like saying "Oh your char is stuck in the wall? Well thats your fault and just deal with it or play better...." Makes me a bitter person at times -_- But again what you just stated is pretty much my sentiments on the whole thing. So what if my dual farming got nerfed, I am sure I'll figure out something! Everytime Anet has taken a nerf bat to something there is complaining and those with more than a half a brain figure out how to make it work. It's no different this time, I just want to see the bugs fixed.

I tried asking Gaile last night when she was in Kamadan about how the bug fixes were coming along but alas she was busy looking at halloween cutouts

<---*rolleyes?* I guess we will all know soon enough.

gwmaster I noted this as well -_- Flags are all well and good but I can't get them to follow called targets >_<

Hyper Cutter · Oct 28, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

I must say, I'm impressed by the new hench AI. Talon and Devona alternating "Charge!" is a beautiful thing...

Narutoscryed · Oct 28, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hephaestus Ram

So why can't you farm with eight people then? If you're doing it for the fun, then the
loot isn't that big a deal right? Eight people should be a lot more fun than three... no?

I think you guys might be getting a little hysterical about this. Either that, or you're
deliberately trying to blow the changes out of proportion.

I've been playing all day in different areas of the game, and things haven't changed
all that much. I don't farm much, but I did do some solo farming with my warrior... it's
still managable.

I've always thought it was poor game design that a single player should be able to
go out into an area designed for an eight man team and clear it by himself anyway
though.

You need to realize that even if we did farm with 8.. if we just did missions.. if we just skillcapped.. anything that we do will be afected by this..

people claim that you can just change tactics.. YES we can change tactics and YES we have... but in that changing of tactics.. witch yes we are very good at doin.. there are still the annoyances of the ai.. and with the new annoyances comes an almost sickining feeling of boredom...

" well the ai update is not that bad " or "you guys are making to big a deal outa it" or "i dont understand why people bitch about the devs removing grind" or "you need to get some skill and change tactics" or "stop complaining if you are not offering a solution"

I swear to god if i hear anymore of that crap or anything like it im gonna puke..

Somthing is terribly wrong here. we need to fix it.. the only solution is to change it back..

it is not adding anything new to the game when REGARDLESS of the number of the group or the groups purpose when all that happens is the things that are supposed to attack run away..

BAD GUYS ARE SUPPOSED TO ATTACK.... they are not supposed to say.. that guy is using a skill that effects more than one person i am gonna run away..and NEVER attack again..

and why do we have to chase down casters? the main objective of the ai casters is to.....CAST!!! they never get a chance to cause they are to busy running away from us....

Why have aoe skills in this game if they dont work in the slightest (do not refer to using slow or knockdown skills on this one. we get it already!!!. it still dosent work for shit..)

Now i really have tried to be paitent with this thread.. but im slowly loosing my paitence..

has anyone thought about the longer missions in the game?

how insanley difficult is urgoz going to be? how insanely long is it going to take now..

this update to the ai has done nothing good in the slightest.. if they kill farming to reduce grind... but they add to the time it takes for a group of 8 to kill a single group of baddies by over double... THEN YOUR JUST ADDING GRIND to a different aspect of the game....

think about it fellas.. damn.. this is not about farming.. its envolves everything in pve... its just that farming is dead on the ground so its the most noticable... but if we dont act soon and get this reversed.. many others will start to notice how the very arguments they made here against my opinions, dont hold any water in the slightest..

but sadly by then it will be to late..

Mr_T_bot · Oct 28, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

In the long run, this won't hurt hardcore farming because they are already abusing the game system and getting around problems by bending rules. This will hurt casual players, just like everything else.

Bastian · Oct 28, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasmaskman

And it remains fact: groups. go. faster. and. more. drops. happen.

LoL! Obviously you have never solo farmed with anything but a ranger or maybe a warrior. And you have obviously never duo farmed. Because, I can tell you bubba - there ain't no way a group of 8 is gonna kill a mob as quick as I can with a solo 55 monk, 55 necro, SB Monk, VwK Rit, etc. etc. etc.

However, lets say there is a difference - lets look at some mathematical equations shall we?

Lets say:

X = Time Factor

D(N) = # Of Normal Drops (White/Blue/Hell Even Purple)

D(R) = # Of Rare Drops (Gold)

G = Amt. of Gold

P = # Of Players

Now lets just make some generalizations here about farming across the board and fill in some numbers:
X = 10 minutes for a run
D(N) = 20 Normal Drops
D(R) = 1 Rare Drop
G = 2k Gold

But here's whats funny if you really look into the numbers - there is only a couple of variables, because drop rates don't really increase in a group of solo - you just think that by going in a group - it should be quicker, and therefore over the long run you should get more drops / minute. Lets find out.

If P=1 in the above scenario then 1 player gets everything.

However, if P=2 then for both players to get the same amount of drops they would need to do about 2 runs and average 5 minutes. Maybe that is doable...

But here is the funny part:

If you need to get the same amount of loot out of an 8 man group - then you need to do the run 8 times and do it in 1.25 minutes or 1:15. Hmmm.... I can't believe that you could take 8 people and actually cut the time down from 10 minutes to 1:15.

So, if you really think bigger groups = more loot...

You are flat out wrong.

Bastian · Oct 28, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Ma

You guys need to seriously relax.

If you'd gotten the CE version, and watched the excellent making of video, you'd see that Anet tests this stuff pretty intensely. They even showed segments specifically addressing the AoE, and once the during the QA testing phase showed a guy testing the AI response to AoE skills.

One of the other things they commented to a lot, was the desire to make the game slower overall. To encourage players to stop and smell the roses, and enjoy the storyline, rather than burn through.

Like RoF said, there are many ways to manage running with other spells. An ele could use snares before AoE skills. It requires more strategy or teamwork is all. Now you don't have to wait and find a Water Ele to join the team, because you can design and control a Hero who uses snares!

Just give it a try for a couple of days, with the new heroes and skills, and see if it's really unbalanced, or if maybe... it's actually better this way <gulp>.

Wow... I guess everyone that complained about what happened just didn't see it the way the "beta testers did" shit, I mean, if "they" said it was okay, then we must all be idiots for not loving the new changes. I mean, its not like we didn't test it or anything and find out for ourselves how much the update sucks.

Oh, and I'm glad that my MMORPG game creater wanted me to stop and smell the roses - I'm glad that I no longer get a choice on how I want to play through a storyline - especially when that story is as kick ass as running back and forth doing mindless random shit.

Of course, snares would work - now I'm suppsed to have snares in all my groups - GREAT! What a change away from liberty and making my own choice.

The way you have it laid out in your statement above is that GW is not some sort of sick and twisted version of Orwell's 1984. I think you're brain washed dude, stop sucking Anet's ****....

Bastian · Oct 28, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

How is using slow spells not fun...unless you are one of those people who only believes in the holy trinity of warrior + monk + as much damagers as possible and nothing else. On the same context using a mesmer is not fun since their dmg output most of the time is even worse then a water ele. (especially the now buffed ones)

People need to get rid of the stubborn idea that warriors have to pwn their foe and chop them to death. So what if you have to chase them a bit. The current new AI make mobs stick to the warrior way more often now, all it does is that the AI run away more realistically. All you people have to do is stand still, and the mobs will automatically come back to you, and chances are they target the warrior again now. Now warrior get the role that they should be doing, tanking foes and support the backup casters.

The game is now MORE fun then it was before, people actually have to think abit but not as much as when the AoE instantly scatters stuff like they were before. The game was boring when everything just stays still and you can just rain destruction on to them.

Lol - so you substitute one for the other - instead of "LF Nuker XXX Mission" its gonna be "LF Water Ele XXX Missions" This doesn't change anything, and if you can't see through your own hypocritical statements then you should choke on your own vomit as you spew it out on this forum.

Zhou Feng · Oct 28, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narutoscryed

i said i would give an update on the ai and the posibility of farming them..

as of right now with tests done in elona and in droks.

there is not one thing we can do to prevent aggro droppage..

you see the enimies are scattering aggro on two seperate levels.. first if they get touched by any aoe (IE : soj,ss,sv,av) they will break aggro almost imediatly..

now lets say you try to do damage to all of them but on an individual basis.. such as the kind of damage done by famine working off fear me.... that wont work either.. because when the baddies reach a certain level of health they will just run away and completly de aggro.. they will then reingage you after they are full again..

Now lets say you try to kill on a STRICT 1v1 bassis.. that solo dude your attacking will run also when his health reaches low.. so you have to chase him down.. that is actually very annoying.

Now the last part is some strange behavior i have noticed on behalf of the ai..

If your tanking and lets say a ranger throws sv on you.. the resulting aggro explosion will cause about half the group to imediatly aggro onto the ranger..
then the other half will sit idle and do nothing for almost a few minutes..

It really would seem that farming is totally abolished now.

so when nightfall comes out chestfarming and questinng are about the only things left to do...

I hope this helps with folks looking for answers and i know this has been discussed but i have tried to provide info on this that other threads do not provide..

In my honest opinion.. i think anet will change the aggro again. because this kinda aggro renders many MANY even non farming skills usless.. so anet will notice this and hopefully realize that they are killing any long term pve enjoyment..

So basically the improved enemy AI to be smarter?

Eviance · Oct 28, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhou Feng

So basically the improved enemy AI to be smarter?

Actually it is about the equivilant of chasing a lone warrior round and round in HA because he refuses to let you hack on him or resign even after his entire party is dead and he has no rez.... I'm not sure I can call it smarter, but stuborn works ~_^

Zehnchu · Oct 28, 2006, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Ugh, had to restart a mission and then couldn’t even fight. The first time I was body blocked by escorting npcs. They would not move, they often moved in front of blocking from the fight. Second time was they almost blocked me again and I had to keep sending the henchmen up to kill everything off so I wouldn’t get stuck.

And then lone runner AI that runs off before a it’s even hit got to stopped.

byteme! · Oct 28, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20

I went out this morning to pickup my copy of NF hoping for the a rock solid game. It was really promising 1 week ago and I had waited with much anticipation for a good new game to play. Well I've played NF for the last 7 hours now and...

I WANT EFFIN MY MONEY BACK! That damn update last night was uncalled for. Grinding was an OPTION before. Now it's forced upon us to grind through the game. Ok grinding 1 character through I can handle but I have 6 other characters to play. >_> I'll hold onto my copy of the game for a bit and see what happens. If things stay the way they are then I guess this just might be the last of GW for me.

They took away the only I had left going for me in GW. Farming. I know I don't have to farm. I know I don't need Uber items or mass wealth to compete. I chose to farm. It was optional, it gave me something to do in GW on my days off and I truly enjoyed it. I feel like I've been stabbed in the back. I'm a longtime fan of GW ever since it's initial release. Correction... I was fan of the FORMER GW not the mess we're left with now. Anyone who dares to tell me to relax should check themselves. I PAID FOR THIS GAME WITH MY OWN MONEY. I AM AN UNHAPPY CUSTOMER AND I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO EXPRESS MY OPINION.

/rant over

byteme! · Oct 28, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastian

LoL! Obviously you have never solo farmed with anything but a ranger or maybe a warrior. And you have obviously never duo farmed. Because, I can tell you bubba - there ain't no way a group of 8 is gonna kill a mob as quick as I can with a solo 55 monk, 55 necro, SB Monk, VwK Rit, etc. etc. etc.

However, lets say there is a difference - lets look at some mathematical equations shall we?

Lets say:

X = Time Factor

D(N) = # Of Normal Drops (White/Blue/Hell Even Purple)

D(R) = # Of Rare Drops (Gold)

G = Amt. of Gold

P = # Of Players

Now lets just make some generalizations here about farming across the board and fill in some numbers:
X = 10 minutes for a run
D(N) = 20 Normal Drops
D(R) = 1 Rare Drop
G = 2k Gold

But here's whats funny if you really look into the numbers - there is only a couple of variables, because drop rates don't really increase in a group of solo - you just think that by going in a group - it should be quicker, and therefore over the long run you should get more drops / minute. Lets find out.

If P=1 in the above scenario then 1 player gets everything.

However, if P=2 then for both players to get the same amount of drops they would need to do about 2 runs and average 5 minutes. Maybe that is doable...

But here is the funny part:

If you need to get the same amount of loot out of an 8 man group - then you need to do the run 8 times and do it in 1.25 minutes or 1:15. Hmmm.... I can't believe that you could take 8 people and actually cut the time down from 10 minutes to 1:15.

So, if you really think bigger groups = more loot...

You are flat out wrong.

Thanks for an intelligent post. The guy who thought 8players>1player for farming is out to lunch.

Narutoscryed · Oct 28, 2006, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Just now i was in a full 8 man group.. i was boon prot... it was probably my fault but our whole group died.. except me.. i ran to drop the aggro in hopes of comming back to rez later..

THE AGGRO FOLLOWED ME ALL THE WAY FROM ONE END OF THE MAP TO THE OTHER... i ran for like 2 minutes straight... they still followed..

i ended up running all the way back.. but by that time about 5 rage quit.. saying how much bullshit the new update was..

then when i tried to rez 1 guy the obvious interupt happend and i died..

so pretty much if more than half your party dies now.. the mission is over..

but it took about 10 minutes total from me trying to drop aggro to the rez attempt... normally it woulda take 1 min or so to get my entire party back up..

yup this update is a real big help to large parties.. it really decreases the grind... ya right.

we can always ask gaile grey to comment on this new problem.. but all we would see then is a famous dodge tactic.. besides im sure she figures most people wanna hear about the haloween event..