Curse

Lord Zado · Oct 30, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

I was a little frustrated with how the henchies/heroes were attacking while I was playing my monk. If I'm under fire and kite a few steps or circle around a henchie to lose aggro, the henchies will break off the attack and follow me.

Also, once the henchies kill one target, they auto target the "weakest" enemy, not the closest enemy which is a bit annoying. I like to take out enemy warriors first (as others above mentioned), then move onto the casters. But now if my henchies drop a warrior while I am healing, they start running to the back to kill the weaker mobs. I have to specifically call a closer target. It's not so bad to call every single target in easy to moderate battles, but when you're fully concentrating on the health bars during a tough fight, having to call the proper target is difficult. The way the old henchie AI seemed to work was they would just target the next closest enemy.

Sir Kilgore · Oct 30, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

For me the latest AI "improvement" is very simple -- they went after farming, and particularly solo farming, with a passion.

This is very annoying to me even though I don't do very much farming. Basically they designed the game so that you can only purchase certain sets of armor if you farm -- period. There's no way in the normal flow of the game you will ever collect the ectos, shards, or the cash to purchase the required items for FOW armor. The 15K armor you might be able to afford if you run several characters through normal game flow and save up for one.

So they are nerfing the activity they made necessary by game design.

Furthermore, the "improved" AI is ridiculous in that several level 22 or higher enemies in a group of 6 or more will run from a single level 20 character using cyclone axe. Yeah, that makes sense. But they don't really run -- that would at least make sense to me. They sit just out of damage range and wait their turn to attack Hollywood style (one to 4 at a time) rather than using the potential advantage of numbers and levels.

If I'm going to run from a battle, I run until no one is following me anymore and I'm well out of aggro range. But I never do this while my party is basically intact. So if this were to be truly improved AI and not just anti-farming AI, the enemies would most likely act in similar fashion. They'd also have to have speed skills that would take up 1 of their 8 slots to outrun speed enhanced players.

How many people would stay grouped with a monk who went on a cross-country run to get rid of his attacker as soon as he was attacked? You expect the monk to circle the tanks and try to ditch the aggro on one of them, not run away as far as he can, assuming there are still a few healthy party members to save.

But the biggest problem I have is what it does to the skill set. What's the point of even having skills like Spiteful Spirit, Cyclone Axe, Ignite Arrows, etc. if they basically get one hit in before the scattering begins? These skills now become next to useless. Are we going to have to degen everything to death eventually?

Many of the useful skills now require a combination of 2 or more slots to be effective. In other words there is a negative side effect of a skill that you have to handle with the use of another skill in order for it to work well, or there is a requirement that the enemy be under a hex or condition to get the benefit of the skill. What this means is now you have to use 2 slots (1/4)minimum of your limited potential to get one useful effect. More and more the useful single slot skills (like SS, cyclone axe, etc) are being nerfed to the point that they have no value by themselves.

I guess the goal is to make everything so equally ineffective that you can pick any 8 skills to throw on your bar and have roughly the same effect in battle.

Beyond the game play aspect I'm a little confused from just a purely logical point of view. The purpose of any business (other than non-profits) is to make money. In this case you make money by selling games. Why is there this drive to annoy the people playing the game? If the people playing aren't cheating (i.e. 3rd party software), hurting your business by how they play, or decreasing the enjoyment of other players by their activities, why would you care what they choose to do with their time while playing your game? Why would you "improve" the AI so that enemies have to be surrounded or continually crippled every battle to keep them from running? This is a step backwards as it requires casters to become part of a blockade instead of running strategic ranks according to the ability to handle and dish out damage.

What's next? Peace symbols on the critters and "make love, not war" signs? If the enemies don't really want to fight then they shouldn't attack us when we wander inside their "aggro bubbles". If they do want to fight then they shouldn't run like scared little girls the first time they break a nail in combat.

The bottom line for me is this latest update to the game was a downgrade. Most people who have expressed an opinion either hate the new AI for PvE enemies or are telling how they can exploit it. That's not the hallmark of a good move.

supaet · Oct 30, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I feel that they need to make monsters kiting in circles instead of running across the map. Also, how the hell is the AI buffed, I still play tank in pve, I ran in and they all attack me, while my caster heroes just nuke them from behind. How smart =.=''

Spydergst1 · Oct 30, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

After a couple days of decayed Orr Emblem farming I noticed something about the AI.

If I attacked the casters first they run. If I attacked and killed tanks and rangers first they didn't run. In fact no one ran. I tested this scenario about 200x. Each time I go after the casters first they ran and didn't stop running. Each time I attaked the tank and killed him no one ran. Once the tanks are dead the casters don't run.

Someone else test this yet? Anyone have a different result?

This begs the question. If a tank attacks the tank and the rest of the group attack the casters what would happen? I haven't been able to try this because I don't belong to any guild and can't get a reliable team to test it.

Please post result if you test this.

Yanman.be · Oct 30, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Yes, Illicit Awakening isn't smart after all...

Sir Skullcrasher · Oct 30, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I think the AI buff (including the latest AoE patch) is to stop solo farming in general. But i don't get it.. if A-Net want to stop solo farming shouldn't they do it long ago instead of now? Shouldn't A-Net patrol ebay and other sites to find these botters and ban them on sight? Shouldn't they lock down all those sites that sell items for real life money?

I have talked to several peoples about this latest AI Buff. Now it's effecting runners doing Droknor Forge run. Personally, i don't see any difference. I was on Starter Island for Nightfall with my level 20 warrior and i can run away from the mobs. Althought they took longer to get away from you.

Darkpower Alchemist · Oct 30, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Today,I ran a Fire Nuker build with [skill=card]Glyph of Renewal[/skill] and [skill=card]Meteor Shower[/skill].

When I attacked a tank type monster, the group didn't run away early on, but when I used the second MS to drop the backline,the attempt to run was already cut off.

I do believe that,tactically,the casters would need to run fast in order to stay alive longer than a tank type. Also,if you are killing the casters, won't the team,in general, all lose out?

I would run when I'm the caster,too. Matter of fact,I did run.However, the point is,yes, the casters set the backline moving, making the frontline move back as well.That is called a tactical retreat, and a smarter move than previously known to be the actions of monsters in PvE.

Sable Phoenix · Oct 30, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

There is no tactics involved here. You can chase the runner forever and the enemy group will form a giant conga line behind you as you traipse across the entire map. Sorry, that's not tactical, that's not improved AI, that's just retarded.

Oct 30, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

There is no tactics involved here. You can chase the runner forever and the enemy group will form a giant conga line behind you as you traipse across the entire map. Sorry, that's not tactical, that's not improved AI, that's just retarded.

100% true.

Solar_Takfar · Oct 30, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

the casters will run if they have other fighters in the group. if you've killed their friends, they just stay and fight; this is certainly to avoid long chases after lone monks and mages who are the last remaining members of their respective groups. They know how to run, but they also know when they're lost so they just give up and die

.

VGJustice · Oct 30, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

There is no tactics involved here. You can chase the runner forever and the enemy group will form a giant conga line behind you as you traipse across the entire map. Sorry, that's not tactical, that's not improved AI, that's just retarded.

Care to tell us why you're chasing the monsters accross the land letting a giant conga of monsters pile up behind you? Because that's not very tactical.

Mournblade · Oct 30, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

It is if you know you can kill them all when the music stops. =)

zelira · Oct 30, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

...Also, how the hell is the AI buffed, I still play tank in pve, I ran in and they all attack me, while my caster heroes just nuke them from behind. How smart =.=''

I noticed that too.

They all seem to attack the highest lvl/AL character in the party. I had the pleasure of standing in Talus Chute for about 3 hours watching Koss powerlevel Tahlkora, Dunkoro, Olias, & Melonni. Not once did they even notice that I or the rest of the heros being there. Starter Shing Jea chest piece from 55 setup for me until Koss had AL above 60.

Might try doing something similar with my necro's heroes tonight.

Sekkira · Oct 30, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Ia Oooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwnnnnnnzzzzzzzzzz

Addone_Abaddon · Oct 30, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

I noticed that before I knew about the AI update, I thought I'd practise using my newly made SS/55 necro with the low level centaurs in northern shiverpeaks and I went for the monk because he kept healing the warrior, I chased him around a try for about 3 minutes then realised what I was doing was pointless, I casted SS on him and attacked the warrior, he kept healing the warrior but SS killed him for doing that lol. The fight ended not long after I killed the warrior.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 30, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

There is no tactics involved here. You can chase the runner forever and the enemy group will form a giant conga line behind you as you traipse across the entire map. Sorry, that's not tactical, that's not improved AI, that's just retarded.

There's no tactics because you didnt use any. Why are you chasing the runner forever? And where are your snares?

Here's a friendly tip. If there's a runner, break off targeting him and pick another. Or back away and kite a bit, that will bring the runner back. Or use degen like poison and bleeding. If they are running with degen they will die. There's even an assassin skill that renews degen if the target is running.

Seriously people why are you not using tactics and skills and complaining about a non existant problem instead?

Addone_Abaddon · Oct 30, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

I just throught of this build quickly that might help

Sprint
Charge<e>
Heal Sig
Hamstring (bold for importance)
Server Artery
Gash
Bonetti's Defense
anything else, more healing probably.

Sekkira · Oct 30, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

"lol the ai is stupid running away for the whole map isn't a tactic"

It's a damn good tactic if they get you to chase them across the whole map, aggroing everything in sight.

Matsumi · Oct 31, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Has anyone tried killing off their frontline attackers before attacking the backline? I guess not, otherwise there wouldn't be so many threads about a monster running and running and the attacker keeps chasing and chasing until the end of the zone. The backline casters will always run if there's frontline (warriors, rangers) attackers that are still there. lol, this is too funny sometimes.

Xenex Xclame · Oct 31, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

"lol the ai is stupid running away for the whole map isn't a tactic"

It's a damn good tactic if they get you to chase them across the whole map, aggroing everything in sight.

Happend to me ( altho not full map ) oh i was pissed of at the monk.