Curse

Aera Lure · Oct 30, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Woo! I stand corrected on this one I am happy to say. Thanks Gaile.

I also play zoomed pretty far back like that because the need to see the bigger picture outweighs the need to see my character in detail during any sort of action. I just assumed most people played that way. When you do play that way, the new big numbers bury the character and inhibit the view. Perhaps the numbers should scale along with the view zoom feature?

Now if Anet could have a look at the camera spinning issue and movement sensitivity during casting? Hmm? Pretty please? ^^ The topic is somewhere on the front page. That's the one, in my most humble opinion, that causes actual gameplay problems.

Cygnus_Zero · Oct 30, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

I love the size of the numbers. One of the best things in the new update. They were too small before. And being an SS Necro, I love seeing numbers all over the screen. =)

Agild Greenfinger · Oct 30, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I don't mind the graphical change...but the size is too big...Anet should make an option for a toggle or better yet a slider for size.

Lawnmower · Oct 30, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmek

Anyone know of a way to change back to the small numbers that rise above your head for damage?? So friggin huge now I have a hard time selecting attac characters with all the numbers flying around so large.

Please state if you have found anything in options

well I for one like it. I can actually see and notice the numbers now. I hope it wont change back. I like it the way it is now!

Lord Sojar · Oct 30, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Get a high rez monitor (at least 1600x1200) I am playing @ 1920X1200 atm, they are not that large. Turn up your resolution past 800x600 or 1024x768, and if you can't save up for a new monitor, and go here. www.newegg.com

Zui · Oct 30, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Thanks for the images. From what I'm seeing, this problem is a factor when people are playing in far distant view, that is, with the camera pulled back to the maximum distance. (How do you guys even see what you're doing!?

)

Pretty much everyone that I know that plays PvP also plays fully zoomed out, with the exception being some Warriors who just I asked, who play partialy zoomed in.

Sable Phoenix · Oct 30, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Just adding a slider to alter the size of the numbers would solve the problem. Simple.

Brother Andicus · Oct 30, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcador

Sorry for the bold but so far only 3 persons said something usefull

YOU CAN TURN OFF THE HUGE NUMBERS AND RETURN THEM TO THE DEFAULT STATE.
THE NUMBERS WILL BE SMALL and THE SKILL WILL BE AGAIN AS TEXT

HIT F11 for Options, or go to Options manually.
On the GENERAL tab, go to the bottom and you will see:
"Show text in skill floaters (Default: Icons)"
PUT a CHECK on it and it will return to the old one. IF IT IS not checked it will show icons and big numbers.

I think that might have been one of the stealth updates that have been coming in over the last 2/3 days. I'm fairly sure that option wasnt there on saturday, and given the number of people that didn't know i'm thinking it wasnt just me.

Oh, and even with the box checked, the numbers are still too big!!

Quote:

Thanks for the images. From what I'm seeing, this problem is a factor when people are playing in far distant view, that is, with the camera pulled back to the maximum distance. (How do you guys even see what you're doing!? )

You pretty much use that all the time in PvP unless terain is badly in the way. Situational awareness is one of the things that gives higher ranked guilds their edge. More zoomed out = more info available = better awareness.

Qual · Nov 01, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

From what I'm seeing, this problem is a factor when people are playing in far distant view, that is, with the camera pulled back to the maximum distance. (How do you guys even see what you're doing!?

)

I got my camera pretty close, and I still think they are a problem

ChaoticCoyote · Nov 01, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

You pretty much use that all the time in PvP unless terain is badly in the way. Situational awareness is one of the things that gives higher ranked guilds their edge. More zoomed out = more info available = better awareness.

Even in PvE, I zoom all the way out, for "situational awareness".

I also play on a 1680x1050 widescreen LCD most of the time.

I don't find the big numbers to be a problem. It may have to do with how people manage targeting. I operate as a ranger most of the time, and use the keyboard for target selection. Those using a mouse for targeting may have a different experience...

Diablo™ · Nov 01, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I'm always zoomed out, I don't like unexpected mid-battle "visitors" flanking me.

saphir · Nov 01, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I play monk mostly, zooming out all the way sometimes isnt' even far enough for me. Situational awareness, knowing where your teammates are, knowing where the enemy is in relation, and knowing of any terrain obstacles that might be shielding you or obstructing you is what keeps you and the party alive even in the worst battles.

I also play zoomed out on all my other characters. I can understand why melee players might want to be a bit more zooomed in as their focus is on the enemy immediately surrounding them, and sometimes it's hard to tell where your target is position in relation to you.

The numbers get really bad though when I'm playing SS or MM. If you run echo SS + reckless + mop + desecrate, sometimes it's hard to see what's going on when the screen is full of yellow numbers that stretch from end to end.
Even better as an MM as you have minion damage + Energy from dying minions/monsters + heals for your minions + extra energy if you have essence bond on a tank

Perkunas · Nov 01, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I think I am beginning to understand why I get err 007 and kicked out of game so much now. I live in the country, only thing available is dialup, too much information trying to enter computer thru phone line. Too much = too slow = shutdown.

Absolute Eminence · Nov 01, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I like the size. its about visability of what your effects in battle are.

ThunderStruck · Nov 02, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

At first I disliked the new numbers, but now I really like them!

I'm glad you can toggle the skill icon damage thing and text, since the icons were way too small to be able to tell what it was that hit you. Text damage FTW

Zui · Nov 02, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Eminence

I like the size. its about visability of what your effects in battle are.

Umm, but can you explain to me what the numbers actualy add for you?.

As I see it:

1) Damage dealt numbers add nothing. Yeah, so you see how much damage you're doing to your target, or multiple targets, you can find the same thing out just by knowing the effects of your skills, your damage range versus X AL targets, or by watching your targets health bar. Considering knowing the damage you're doing, and glancing at a health bar that not only takes damage into account but also takes the targets total health into account is not only quicker to do, but also gives you more information, I don't see why when there's a far superior alternative to the numbers why you'd bother using them for that...

2) Damage taken numbers add very little to players who are actualy aware of what's happening. People who are aware are already looking around, and see what's damaging them, and in many cases, see it before it even starts damaging them simply do not need larger numbers. Bad players, however will see some big red numbers and usualy attempt to do somthing about it, but they'll react rashly and end up making gigantic mistakes that lead to them dying, them taking more damage than they would have, or even a full party wipe. However, sometimes bad players will actualy effectively mitigate damage, and not do somthing like kite straight into the opponents backline, or use Whirling Defense while standing in an elemental based AoE...

3) Healing numbers, again add very little. As a Monk, you already have two tools to judge your healing in-game, the party bar, and the players health bar. You should also know exactly how much you're healing for with each skill, so it's not like that information needs to be communicated in-game. The only time that the numbers could be of any help are when a target is suffering from Deep Wound. However, if you didn't notice them get spiked, there's somthing wrong. If your party member didn't ctrl+click on Deep Wound, or call it over vent, there's also somthing wrong. If you didn't notice their life guage respond differently, there is again somthing very wrong. Considering just watching the battle is again a far more effective means of gathering information, both in time it takes to do so, and in terms of total information gathered, I just don't see why you'd watch the numbers...

Gorebrex · Nov 02, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Umm, but can you explain to me what the numbers actualy add for you?.
As I see it:

1) Damage dealt numbers add nothing. Yeah, so you see how much damage you're doing to your target, or multiple targets, you can find the same thing out just by knowing the effects of your skills, your damage range versus X AL targets, or by watching your targets health bar. Considering knowing the damage you're doing, and glancing at a health bar that not only takes damage into account but also takes the targets total health into account is not only quicker to do, but also gives you more information, I don't see why when there's a far superior alternative to the numbers why you'd bother using them for that...

2) Damage taken numbers add very little to players who are actualy aware of what's happening. People who are aware are already looking around, and see what's damaging them, and in many cases, see it before it even starts damaging them simply do not need larger numbers. Bad players, however will see some big red numbers and usualy attempt to do somthing about it, but they'll react rashly and end up making gigantic mistakes that lead to them dying, them taking more damage than they would have, or even a full party wipe. However, sometimes bad players will actualy effectively mitigate damage, and not do somthing like kite straight into the opponents backline, or use Whirling Defense while standing in an elemental based AoE...

3) Healing numbers, again add very little. As a Monk, you already have two tools to judge your healing in-game, the party bar, and the players health bar. You should also know exactly how much you're healing for with each skill, so it's not like that information needs to be communicated in-game. The only time that the numbers could be of any help are when a target is suffering from Deep Wound. However, if you didn't notice them get spiked, there's somthing wrong. If your party member didn't ctrl+click on Deep Wound, or call it over vent, there's also somthing wrong. If you didn't notice their life guage respond differently, there is again somthing very wrong. Considering just watching the battle is again a far more effective means of gathering information, both in time it takes to do so, and in terms of total information gathered, I just don't see why you'd watch the numbers...

1.Having skill effects memorized? Id LOVE to be able to do that, but simply cant, and Im a pretty intelligent guy.

2.Its not about "needing" the numbers, its about "using" them. You CAN have good awareness, and use the numbers as a tool to judge just how much of a threat the mob(s) is/are. If you see about half the party's hp go down a good bit in a very short time, thats pretty serious, but HOW serious? I MUCH prefer precise numbers over guesswork, and memorization of facts and figures that Id have to be able to calculate rapidly(while making decisions about movement, spellcasting/weapon use, ect, in the heat of battle. In short, it seems like you want GW to be more of a mental exercise. Ill pass on that.

3.AGAIN with the memorization! I cant see how people would/could do that. Its too much to remember/calculate while also monitoring/responding to the battle, as Ive said. Also, if youre monking, yes, theres something wrong if youre not monitoring party health/condition. Communication is vital, I agree, but I cant see how you can gain more information without the numbers than with them, nor can I see how the numbers would make you take a signifigantly longer time to respond to party needs. I just dont get that.

Eugaet · Nov 02, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

I like the larger numbers...I play at 1280x1024. It's much easier to see than it used to be.

Xenrath · Nov 02, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I like the new system and also that Anet have taken into consideration for example people with colour blindness and other eyesight issues. Encouraging to see

I also play at 1280x1024, they look fine to me (and I have colour blindness)

Zui · Nov 02, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

It should really be said that I was talking in a PvP-only context in my last post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorebrex

1.Having skill effects memorized? Id LOVE to be able to do that, but simply cant, and Im a pretty intelligent guy.

Most PvPers know the effects of all skills in the game, and genraly what they do. For the more commonly seen skills, most people know exactly what they do, and pretty close to exact damage ranges/breakpoints. Either way, my statement was about dealing damage...

Most offensive charactars have 7 skill slots 'free' on their bar. One almost always being devoted to a ressurection skill. Is it really that hard to know exactly what 7 skills do? Is it really that hard for a Warrior to know the average damage he'll hit for? Because quite honestly, I've known people who've only played for 2 weeks and enjoy playing Warrior that know exactly what all of their skills do, and even know their average swing damage with each weapon type.

My general point with #1 was that: Being able to judge a targets remaining health is very important. Especailly if you already know about how much damage you did to them, which you absolutly should. Making the numbers pretty unimportant, becasue they're telling you the exact of what you pretty much already know, and the exact amount isn't what you care about, you just want to make that life bar read 0.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorebrex

2.Its not about "needing" the numbers, its about "using" them. You CAN have good awareness, and use the numbers as a tool to judge just how much of a threat the mob(s) is/are. If you see about half the party's hp go down a good bit in a very short time, thats pretty serious, but HOW serious? I MUCH prefer precise numbers over guesswork, and memorization of facts and figures that Id have to be able to calculate rapidly(while making decisions about movement, spellcasting/weapon use, ect, in the heat of battle. In short, it seems like you want GW to be more of a mental exercise. Ill pass on that.

Your example of judging the threat of mobs is not applicable. I'm talking about PvP. Although, it's the exact same case in PvE, too... I'm not going to go into talking about PvE, because for the most part, anything goes, and alot of people play very inefficiently and do absolutly fine, for example Monks spamming Orison of Healing.

Your example of seeing half the party's health going down just doesn't work. You can't see the numbers on other players taking damage. In addition, actual threat is determined by how much risk there is of someone dying. Not by the fact that someone has taken damage. For example, if a very poor team is for some reason running 4 copies of Obsidian Flame, with no other contribution to the initial spike, and no afterspike, someone will probably loose ~450 health, if the spike is not disrupted. So now they have only ~150ish helalth left! Are they in any risk of dying? Absolutly not. They'll be healed up before they can be spiked again, and the Monks have essentialy no pressure on them so running out of energy really won't be an issue. So again, I say that threat is determined by risk of death.

As for your last comment, it is also pretty off base. You may have misunderstood what you were replying to. I'll try to make it very clear for you.

"Damage taken numbers add very little to players who are actualy aware of what's happening. People who are aware are already looking around, and see what's damaging them, and in many cases, see it before it even starts damaging them simply do not need larger numbers."

Translation: Players who don't suck at Guild Wars watch the battle, and pay attention to their remaining health when appropriate. Those players are thus able to sometimes see what will damage them before it actualy does, and then take the best course of action, weither it be to do nothing, or attempt to mitigate that damage. Theese players also have a very good idea what is a threat, and what is not a threat. They realise they might want to start pre-kiting that Warrior before he them, instead of letting that warrior hit them 5 times until he finaly gets a 63 damage critical hit, and then start kiting because they saw a big number. They realise that they can strafe that Lightning Orb, and that it'll mitigate ~120 damage in doing so. They may strafe it if their Monks are under pressure, or if there's some risk of death to them. They may consider what their immediate task is to be far more important, and instead opt to take the hit so they can do somthing that's more important to their team winning. Obviously you don't need to know exact specifics to make theese decisions and realise that some things are a threat, and some aren't, but they do help, and most good players do know them, or at least what an average hit will be, depending on the spec of course.

My general point with #2 was that: Your remaining health matters. What your oppoents are genraly going to do to you in the future matters. What they exactly did to you in the past, even though it still falls along that genral guideline you're going to use for future actions, simply doesn't matter. The fact you took X+X+X+X+X damage in the span of two seconds ten minutes ago does not matter. It's taking roughly the same amount of damage in the future you care about, and knowing the exacts of that damage in the past does not help you, since if they're running any kind of attacker-based offense the attacks will have a damage range, just like weapons do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorebrex

3.AGAIN with the memorization! I cant see how people would/could do that. Its too much to remember/calculate while also monitoring/responding to the battle, as Ive said. Also, if youre monking, yes, theres something wrong if youre not monitoring party health/condition. Communication is vital, I agree, but I cant see how you can gain more information without the numbers than with them, nor can I see how the numbers would make you take a signifigantly longer time to respond to party needs. I just dont get that.

Again, this is healing. I'm not suggesting that a Warrior know exactly how much their Monks are healing them for. I'm suggesting that the Monk should know that. The Monks should be aware of who just got Deep Wound applied to them, as well. It's pretty obvious when a target gets spiked. Monks job is to keep people alive. To do that, they need to be able stay alive themselves, know what on the opposing team is a threat, and know how to respond to that threat in the ways they can. So, they should at least know genraly how much they heal for, how powerful each heal is in comparison, the casting time of each heal, the recharge... Pretty much know what your 8 skills do - it's not that hard. They should also be able to identify what is a threat to their teammates. They should be watching their opponents two Warriors when playing an adrenal spike team so they can pre-prot the target. The Warriors are the threat! I hope I explained that well enough for you... It's somewhat hard to break down everything important learned in well over a year of playing PvP in just a few sentences.

For your last point there, the Healing numbers give you no information you don't already know. Unless you're very new at monking and don't know how much your spells are healing for, or just suck at Guild Wars and didn't realise two Warriors converging on a target and then his health rapidly dropping when they spiked him(which most likely infliced Deep Woud, unless your opposition sucks at Guild Wars, too). So, since you already know what those numbers will say, why even look at them? It's not a question of gaining more information without them, or gaining more information with them. You're getting the same amount of information about what that heal did! Except by reading them you're not focusing on somthing else you *don't* already know.

Well, that's that... It's very hard to explain amazingly simple things like this =/