Curse

Anarkii · Nov 02, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

You have to understand, ANet doesn't support farming. Farming as a whole is almost as bad as running people to droks. They don't want you to camp in 1 area and continuously kill the same thing over and over, they want you to PLAY the game.

(a) For a non-elonian character, you are forced to farm sunspear points in order to proceed in the game. Even if you do all the quests available till then, and have the blessing/bounty for the mobs you kill along the way, you'll be short on points for Sunspear General.

Anet forces you to farm in order to proceed

(b) Triple Green Drop Weekend.

Encouraging people to farm bosses, in a pretty obvious way.

Farming has been, and will be as central to PvE in mmos as questing and exploring. Otherwise the content simply dies down once you're done with 'playing the game'.

Clord · Nov 02, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkii

(a) For a non-elonian character, you are forced to farm sunspear points in order to proceed in the game. Even if you do all the quests available till then, and have the blessing/bounty for the mobs you kill along the way, you'll be short on points for Sunspear General.

Anet forces you to farm in order to proceed

(b) Triple Green Drop Weekend.

Encouraging people to farm bosses, in a pretty obvious way.

Farming has been, and will be as central to PvE in mmos as questing and exploring. Otherwise the content simply dies down once you're done with 'playing the game'.

Actually if you look around quests. New quests appear to areas where you was done all previous quests already. You don't need farm points to get General rank (if you actually fight with monster groups what you find during quests).

gabrial heart · Nov 02, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Yeah, if you don't rush through the main quest line, there is actually more then enough for general. Although, if you bring a character over, then you would likely fall a bit short.

A-net has seemed to always say that they WANT the average player to be able to "farm". What they don't want however is, people creating "bots" to farm gold greens and assorted other goodies in which to sell on e-bay or other sources for real world money.

The Prince · Nov 02, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

Yeah, if you don't rush through the main quest line, there is actually more then enough for general. Although, if you bring a character over, then you would likely fall a bit short.

A-net has seemed to always say that they WANT the average player to be able to "farm". What they don't want however is, people creating "bots" to farm gold greens and assorted other goodies in which to sell on e-bay or other sources for real world money.

if they wanted the average player to be able to farm, then why nerf some of the most "average" farming builds. While the 55 works still(although diminished), the 600 is pretty much dead ( i thought the 600 wasnt a build that a bot could work for). the 600 was good because it was low cost (you dont neccessarily need superior runes for it, and totem axe and wenslauss favor cost me about 15k total). it seems the new nerfs will force people who want high level items to go to ebay rather than deal with the diminshed farming that will take a long time to be profitable at.

Sidra · Nov 02, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

in general, the smaller the farming group, the more likely it is that bots are farming. WoW gold farmers go out in groups of 2, usually one person maintaining 2 bots on 2 diff PC's somewhere out in central china. in GW, you can solo farm. I haven't heard people moaning about ranger nerfs or anything in a while. The reason? Simple. Ranger solo-farming is (supposedly, from what i've read. don't quote me on this) incredibally hard and has a high learning curve. Writing a bot for it would be a waste of time, and would probably be very, very buggy. 55'ing is a set form, just a thing you do over, and over, and over, w/o any change, no matter what the spawn rate or creature. The more complicated and bigger the build/group, the less likely ANet is to nerf farming groups. The UW and FOW were probably meant as big-group things. People go FoW w/ larger groups than UW, but the UW? 2 man? seriously? no.

and, to the guy who said "heroes change it from an mmorpg to whatever lololol". Wrong. You can play with whoever you want, and usually 8-groups have multiple people in them because you can only bring 3 heroes, lol. I've made 3 or 4 friends after 4 days of play, just through missions and stuff. It's a lot more fun and less stressfull when you only have to collaborate with 2-4 people instead of 1-8 pug noobs. I love it. Not to say that I don't love big groups w/ fun people in them though. they rock too.

/random reply mode: off

gabrial heart · Nov 02, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prince

if they wanted the average player to be able to farm, then why nerf some of the most "average" farming builds. While the 55 works still(although diminished), the 600 is pretty much dead ( i thought the 600 wasnt a build that a bot could work for). the 600 was good because it was low cost (you dont neccessarily need superior runes for it, and totem axe and wenslauss favor cost me about 15k total). it seems the new nerfs will force people who want high level items to go to ebay rather than deal with the diminshed farming that will take a long time to be profitable at.

Well, if it's easy enough it's going to be an average farming build. 55 was totally nerfed, now not so much (ai now attacking squishies again). But, they are going to have to find some balance with it all eventually. For the most part, you can still 3-4 man just about everything, which i think is more the goal then allowing room for solo builds.

Farming is one of those extremely variable terms. Not once did i feel like i was farming sunspear points or greenies. I like to play the game a little more like the way it was intended, i think, then a lot of people crying foul over solo builds being nerfed. I also think if you add enough REASONS to do something, then farming becomes a secondary thing. I've gotten about 5 (max) greens and one very rare hammer type, just "playing" the game so far.

Prospero · Nov 02, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I don't think ANet's position on farming is black and white. It's more of a mixed bag. I think what ANet dispises is people raking in cash from drops 4 and 5 times faster than your average player. When the amount of gold going into the economy is greater than the gold absorbed through gold-sinks, it makes prices go up.

At this point in the game ANet has people who have been saving since beta and new players. They want to make sure the game is fun and accessable for everyone. So, in some ways farming helps the economy and in some ways it hurts (more greens = lower prices = good; more cash = higher prices = bad). If everyone can just go get a 55 and have 100k in a week, it ups the bar for new players who now have to do the same thing to keep up.

reetkever · Nov 02, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Well first A-net kills solo-playing, and then A-net kills normal monster killing UNLESS you have an uber-elite team with people with perfect builds and stats who know EXACTLY what to do, or else monsters kill you. Yep it's very funny to search for a perfect party for 2 hours, and after that fail miserably in the actual mission/quest.

Also, the fun of exploring is away, since 1 wrong aggro kills you. The monsters are too strong now, it's just crazy. Only the super-elite people can survive and say 'ohh cool a nice challenge', but all the new players and players who aren't good at the game (like me) are getting totally wrecked now.

GG A-net, elitism ftw *sarcastic*

winkgood · Nov 02, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofonisba

You chuckle at people for having greens? I get annoyed when people spam what they're wielding, and I'm usually not impressed no matter what it is... but I would never believe I'm a superior player because I'm NOT wielding a green.

Actually, I find that people wielding greens are much more likely to spam "I'm wielding a..." than others. I can't count the number of pugs I've been in that I've seen someone spam "I'm wielding a Dragos Flatbow". I think that they are stuck with the illusion that greens somehow make them good players.

My personal preference is golds if I can afford them. They are a lot more flexible than greens. I have a rather large collection of greens though. I'm definitely not rich enough to avoid using collector/green stuff altogether.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidra

I haven't heard people moaning about ranger nerfs or anything in a while. The reason? Simple. Ranger solo-farming is (supposedly, from what i've read. don't quote me on this) incredibally hard and has a high learning curve.

Unless you count the nerf to the greatest ranger farming build ever. Grawl bombing. (EoE nerf). Last night I took a friend 2-man trapping in UW. It takes longer than 55/SS but I wouldn't say the learning curve is incredibly high.

allience · Nov 02, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

i've finished nightfall with my monk and gotten 1 gold armor (was a sup leadership). that's it. no greens, no other golds dropped, nothing

drekmonger · Nov 02, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

I'm nearing the end of Nightfall. I've gotten six gold drops and two green drops and about a bazillion runes including a sup vigor (!!!) so far, without any intentional farming. Just luck of the draw maybe.

Gorebrex · Nov 02, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Well first A-net kills solo-playing, and then A-net kills normal monster killing UNLESS you have an uber-elite team with people with perfect builds and stats who know EXACTLY what to do, or else monsters kill you. Yep it's very funny to search for a perfect party for 2 hours, and after that fail miserably in the actual mission/quest.

Also, the fun of exploring is away, since 1 wrong aggro kills you. The monsters are too strong now, it's just crazy. Only the super-elite people can survive and say 'ohh cool a nice challenge', but all the new players and players who aren't good at the game (like me) are getting totally wrecked now.

GG A-net, elitism ftw *sarcastic*

Ive met some people who DO think thats what you need! Makes me sad. About the "calling" of weapons though, I look at it like calling the skillbar. You could ask someone about the stats, maybe you know of a weapon that may work better with the "team build", and could ask if they have one. Just my 2 cents. I havent really noticed much on the drops, as I dont farm, but I DID, just a couple days ago, get 2 Yakslappers in a row outside Sorrow, 1st I thought was kinda cool, the second really surprised me.

Chief · Nov 02, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

You have to understand, ANet doesn't support farming.

You are partially correct. Obviously, you did not read Gaile's chat log for October 25th. Honest Farming is perfectly fine.

The problem is the bots and those who sell in-game items for real-world currency. (as it has been since release of GW)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

"we have no problem with honest farmers!"

"But those who farm for item sales, for real world cash, aren't part of the fair game picture."
"And those who bot are going to be seriously problematic to the normal players"
"They cause inflation and inflation drives up prices and means that no on can buy anything."
"Ebaying of gold is a problem, yes!"
"And the Results in account termination."

Age · Nov 02, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I don't think Anet is agianst the 55 or 605 build although it doesn't work as good as it use to.It is like this if they were agianst it they would of removed everything to make these builds good.It is sort of like running it was easy at 1 point and then got a slight difficult anyway I don't think they are agianst it it could be just the bots if they are it would be nice to have some farming zones dedicated just for that and not eccesible by botters.

I don't see nothing wrong with certian greens.It would be nice to get an explaination on all of this if they are willing.There is no way you can make PvE axactly like PvP as they are different we are fighting mobs here not an 8 man team.What is this suppose to do really as PvE will be just a joke like PvP is except GvG and these Heros we didn't need them all we asked for were better henchmen and controls.The Henchmen seem to fine now we really didn't need these heros as it is ruining the economy already as to all the minor runes going bust.I don't ever believe we will get an auction house anyway PvE ftl for now.

Hand of Shiva · Nov 03, 2006, 10:09 AM // 10:09

So they have no problems with farming just botters, so they picked up the nerf bat, padded it up to 30 times the useful size and took a mighty Babe Ruth swing at the problem and knocked over everything in the process to take out the botters. The problem is, is that people who bot for cash are the kind that find the quickest way back and actually gain the most from the nerfs. Hmm takes 5 hours to make 50k takes 5 minutes to buy 500k.... let me think about what the lazy player is going to choose. Swinging the nerf bat is not the solution to bot farmers and is as effective as setting a nuke to get rid of a roach problem. Not to mention the nerfs aren't just hurting farmers, whens the last time you saw a Smite monk in an actual party? (for most of us we're scratching our head and thinking way back before factions.)

As for farming in an MMO thats like the staple of MMOs. Sure there are PvP raids, and battles and pretty pictures of scantiliy clad toons. There are holiday events and what not but in the end after the story is done after you've got your butt kicked in the arena for the 50th time what have you left to do for excitement? Farmings not exciting, its dull and boring and crappy, but damned if that max damage 15^50% 20/20 sundering +30 health Req 7 Gold Fellblade didn't just put a gaint zip in your step! And thats the thing with MMOs, even the old ones like EQ and UO and all the others, even with the modern ones. You can quest till the cows come home but the things that get players really excited are the items that drop. Killing Shiro for the 10th time and wondering why some moron didn't press skip through the cinematic isn't fun, finding that rare axe you been hunting after for weeks, thats exciting. So I really don't see what all the fuss about farming being bad comes from. 1 mand 2 man 8 man, its all about getting something to drop plain and simple.

As a side note, if i have to fund my Heroes armor and weapons they better start forking over some of those drops their stealing from me, damned leechers! I'm reporting you Koss!!! j/k

God Apprentice · Nov 03, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

You have to realise..change is inevitable. Anyone remember when Black dye costs 47k? Boy imagine if that didn't change. See my point?

Metsa Pille · Nov 03, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Actually, I find that people wielding greens are much more likely to spam "I'm wielding a..." than others. I can't count the number of pugs I've been in that I've seen someone spam "I'm wielding a Dragos Flatbow". I think that they are stuck with the illusion that greens somehow make them good players.

It wasn't exactly spamming the chat, but once i was either at RA or Imperial Sanctum (last Factions mission) and an assassin in my team equipped Shiro's daggers for just a moment straight in front of me (i'm an assassin too). He was probably morally demobilised when i did the same. The reason why i took Shiro's daggers and not the Ceremonial, was that they just looked good. Usually i'm with my Barbed Kris of Dagger Mastery, because it's good for bleeding, but well, it all depends on the situation.

Now for a little spam incident also. It happened yesterday at Team Arena.
In the beginning of the battle, an Ele was spamming his equipment. Then he was spamming who he targets and in the end he spammed some Rodgort thing so that i had to scroll up for quite a bit to see any actual text...oh, and then he said "noobs" and left. I love those people.

Oh, and on-topic also: i don't have Prophecies yet so i simply don't care

Gorebrex · Nov 03, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Item prices like that are player-driven however, and arent changed by ANet nearly as often as the AI and skills(Im not aware of any ANet-created price changes, in fact).

Deleet · Nov 03, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

OP:
Whine, and your facts are even incorrect.

By the time you complete the game, you'll have gotten like 5+ runes to the new professions.

You're totally wrong about the "green issue", since greens are meant to be special items, and not items for the general casual player, that is what collectors items are for.

Esprit · Nov 03, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Green items are not supposed to drop like candy. They probably drop as often as gold items do, except you know where they drop and you can concentrate your efforts into that one spot rather than an entire area.