Curse

skull · Mar 23, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Hi,

I finally changed my build and started to play as a Barrage / Pet Ranger in the New UW. I have to say I am very impressed with this build and how easy it now is to get into PUGs. Finally my Ranger char. is valued!

Yeah I know that I could have gone and done the Trapping thing in UW but I am not interested in trapping (especially the nonsense of putting 16-points in WS just to get accepted into a group) and all that waiting around...boring.

Ok. A couple of things I noticed about PUG skills that are used:

1) some Ranger in the group brings FW (+6 dmg to arrows)
2) some Ranger in the group brings Winnowing (+4 dmg physical)
3) Order Necro for more damage to mobs. Using Order of the Vamp + Order of Pain.

I personally have also included the following skills to my own build to maximize my Barrage damage:

1) Ride the Wind (gives +9 dmg to arrows + speed x2 with my setup)
2) I recently changed my secondary so I am also using Mark of Pain (MoP). This is an extremely effective spell against mobs dealing an extra 10-34 shadow dmg. to the target's adjacent foes (+20 in my case). I pick out a target in the middle of the mob so I can keep hitting the same target repeatedly. Choosing a target from the front of the pack ends up in a quick death because most ppl are targetting the closest foe. This then kind of wastes the effectiveness of the spell.

All in all some pretty decent damage.

My question:

Having just changed my secondary and thus being new to the Necro skills in PVE, I read an older thread that said that MoP had been nerfed and that using it made the Monsters scatter (similar to other AoE spells like Firestorm or Ignite Arrows). I didn't really notice this happening but maybe it does.

I am a little bit apprehensive to tell anyone in the PUG I am taking this skill, because there is almost always some 'Mr. Know-it-All' prick who says "You can't take that skill n00b!"

Can someone who has used this skill in PVE please tell me if this is true. Do you notice mob scattering and in your opinion is it a good skill to take with to UW and use with mobs??? What is the downside to this skill if any.

Last question. Does this skill stack? I am guessing multiple party members casting MoP on seperate targets will stack but if I use MoP on a target, and someone else uses MoP on the same target. Do both we now get extra damage from both MoP spells?

Thanks.

BTW: Finished the New UW both times I went in as Barrage Ranger (got Victo's Blade on First run and an Ecto and Wenschlauss Staff on second run)...and never managed once to do this with my Elem char. in a traditional PUG. It also only take less than 2-hours to do it. Nice.

Sekkira · Mar 23, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

It's Tombs, not the 'New UW'.

Desbreko · Mar 23, 2006, 02:16 PM // 14:16

One problem there: Read the Wind is a preparation, and Barrage removes all preparations when you use it. That's why Favorable Winds is used with Barrage builds, since it's a spirit.

And yes, Mark of Pain does make mobs scatter like other AoE damage. I've also used it together with Barrage, though not in Tombs, as well as on my necro. With masses of minions and pets body blocking the baddies in Tombs, however, they may not be able to move much. Either that or the extra damage will kill them fast enough that it won't matter. . . . I think I'll have to try that out some time, as my ranger started out as R/N.

Hexes don't stack on the same target, though, so if you had two people using Mark of Pain, you'd have to make sure they cast on different enemies. The damage from both of those enemies getting hit would, however, stack.

Titan Chrae · Mar 23, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

When I play Orders Necro in Tombs I only take Order of Pain and leave my elite open for BiP. I make up the few seconds of not having a second Orders buy casting MoP. It is Very effective in Tombs...Especially in tight corridors where Mobs can't escape. I have screen shots where MoP damage is shows more then 400+ pts damage. Thats a lot of damage for the Orders Necro to be dishing out. I never thought of using necro secondary on my ranger. That would be interesting if every Ranger did that and they all targed different targets.

What is your Attribute Distribution Skull?

fiery · Mar 23, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Yes RTW is a useless skill down there, I seen so many badly skill bars down there, I stopped doing the runs completly. Now my only chance of getting a bulwark is buying one.

skull · Mar 23, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desbreko

One problem there: Read the Wind is a preparation, and Barrage removes all preparations when you use it. That's why Favorable Winds is used with Barrage builds, since it's a spirit.

Hi,

You are correct sir. I now have a free slot for something else!

Thanks!

Quote:

And yes, Mark of Pain does make mobs scatter like other AoE damage. I've also used it together with Barrage, though not in Tombs, as well as on my necro. With masses of minions and pets body blocking the baddies in Tombs, however, they may not be able to move much. Either that or the extra damage will kill them fast enough that it won't matter. . . . I think I'll have to try that out some time, as my ranger started out as R/N.

Yes. It is very crowded down there with a lot of bottlenecks and tight passages. It seems to work Ok.

Quote:

Hexes don't stack on the same target, though, so if you had two people using Mark of Pain, you'd have to make sure they cast on different enemies. The damage from both of those enemies getting hit would, however, stack.

Again thanks for the info.

fiery · Mar 23, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Normal build is barrage disctracting shot savage shot attack speed skill dust trap i prefer than throw dirt charm/comfort and res <--- rebirth ressurect.

skull · Mar 23, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan Chrae

When I play Orders Necro in Tombs I only take Order of Pain and leave my elite open for BiP. I make up the few seconds of not having a second Orders buy casting MoP. It is Very effective in Tombs...Especially in tight corridors where Mobs can't escape. I have screen shots where MoP damage is shows more then 400+ pts damage. Thats a lot of damage for the Orders Necro to be dishing out. I never thought of using necro secondary on my ranger. That would be interesting if every Ranger did that and they all targed different targets.

What is your Attribute Distribution Skull?

Hi,

Curses = 6 -->+20 shadow damage for MoP. Add 2 for each distribuition point.

I am at work so forgive me for any mistakes. If I remember correctly I have:

Beast Mastery = 4 or 5 (only for Comfort Animal healing.)
Expertise = 11
WS = 11
Markmanship = 12

Yes. It is very crowded down there will all the pets, minions and mobs. In most places they just don't have anywhere to run.

bobrath · Mar 23, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

I wouldn't mind some of the rangers going R/N, but its nice to know that a few R/Mos will have Rebirth for when the monk goes down. Res sigs are nice, but with no boss kills til the end, they're one use for the entire tombs run... I've had more then a few PUGs that needed the rebirthing of rangers to help us finish (and yes I've had other PUGs that never died or even got close).

The only frustrating thing about MoP is when it does cause scatter... invariably some of the grasps re aggro on players in the back row instead of on the summons. Be cautios to only use it when there's a good bottleneck as you can end up killing your group.

Tainek · Mar 23, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan Chrae

When I play Orders Necro in Tombs I only take Order of Pain and leave my elite open for BiP. I make up the few seconds of not having a second Orders buy casting MoP. It is Very effective in Tombs...Especially in tight corridors where Mobs can't escape. I have screen shots where MoP damage is shows more then 400+ pts damage. Thats a lot of damage for the Orders Necro to be dishing out. I never thought of using necro secondary on my ranger. That would be interesting if every Ranger did that and they all targed different targets.

What is your Attribute Distribution Skull?

i'd say order of the vamp is much more helpful than BIP - five rangers hitting (lets say 3 ) targets per salvo are healing 17*3 health each, the extra energy from a bip is far less usefull to a monk than the rangers not needing as much healing in the first place

and if the MM needs a bip, then they're just plain awful at energy management

Charqus · Mar 23, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Can i just stress IT IS NOT UW!!!!
IT IS THE TOMBS OF PRIMEVIL KINGS!!!!
I normaly leave grps who call it UW thinking its noob cos they never got past first stage..... it annoys me *sigh*

Haggard · Mar 23, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by skull

Beast Mastery = 4 or 5 (only for Comfort Animal healing.)
Expertise = 11
WS = 11
Markmanship = 12

Thats extremely low dmg, and 11 wilderness survival isnt that necessary provded the monking is ok

Try:
16 marks
10 exp
10 wildy

i never have energy problems and +7 troll is fine by me

Yichi · Mar 23, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charqus

Can i just stress IT IS NOT UW!!!!
IT IS THE TOMBS OF PRIMEVIL KINGS!!!!
I normaly leave grps who call it UW thinking its noob cos they never got past first stage..... it annoys me *sigh*

quoted for truth

problems with your build. (and ENGLISH)

1. its "Read the Wind" not "Ride the Wind" and it doesnt stack with barrage
2. MoP can be a good skill, but your necro should take that instead of you being a ranger. youll already be stretched for stats as it is in that grp with having marks, expertise, wilderness, and a little in beast for pet revive
3. as i quoted, Its not new UW. Underworld is the first in a series of maps leading to the Hall of Heroes
4. Its not "Wenchslaus" faith its "Wenslauss" faith
5. If you knew ranger builds at all, you would know that this is not the only build that will get your ranger into groups. interrupt rangers are highly valued if youre good at it.
6. Why wouldnt you have 16 in WS if youre trapping? any ranger that dont should be shot

Gunz Blazing Smile · Mar 23, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by skull

Hi,3) Order Necro for more damage to mobs. Using Order of the Vamp + Order of Pain.

These do not stack anymore... How sad... It's mainly Order of Pain or just the Vampire. Pain gives more dmg, vampire gives life. Either help healer or kill faster... so hard to choose!

Anyways, nice skill selection all except some other problems that have already been adressed. Although I prefer to be a MM necro so I can keep the monsters off the team by makeing more meat sheilds. So I can't say too much with curses and stuff.

fiery · Mar 23, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

I wouldn't mind an Enfeebling the blood

.

wiz12268 · Mar 23, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

As an accomplished BM ranger and now a semi veteran of a few runs (about 25-30) ToPK runs I can tell you that rangers are little more than meat shields for the necros until they can get a big enough minion army going.

That run is about bodies, and SS. Once that gets up rangers are basically not even needed, excpet for interupts and a mesmer could do that. All the spirit checks, getting a "perfect" skill bar are meaningless.

Because of the potency of SS once the mobs get together it is all over.

I went in as a monk once and basically I didn't even have a good bar set up(as we jumped as soon as I joined), but it didn't really matter since I only basically had to heala monk or rez a ranger that got too far out to heal in the first place.

When you can take a bunch of people that have never played a pet before and have them i there with lev 5 and 7 pets all over the place, and probably builds described above (spread out of 5 not 4 attributes) with elemental preps etc and they can STILL run these maps with ease...that tells you the rangers are not all that important.

Again this is coming from a ranger, and one that can solo UW (as a trapper), and most of the high end mountain maps, and all of the desert maps as a BM. I can even BM my way through perdition rock as long as I steer clear of the golems.

But the way people fly through ToPK so easilly should tell you something, and many of them are not very experienced, nor have a clue as to how and set up a skill bar or allocate attribute points. As long as the SS is at 16, and the minions are maxed, that is all that matters. You don't even need a pet, but for most pet= more meat to make minions. The damage they cause is non existant for the most part, especially when most guys only have a cursory amount of points in BM as it is.

Count to Potato · Mar 23, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Try using rather than mop a fiery shocking or icy bow and Cnjure Frost, Flamre opr lightning, works well and very effective for me in UW

R A C · Mar 23, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I may be wrong but I think the order of pain and winnowing only work with physical damage. It'd end up being about the same damage and the less enchants you have on you, the less they can shatter. Atleast I think so, don't flame me if I'm wrong.

Lord Iowerth · Mar 23, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by R A C

I may be wrong but I think the order of pain and winnowing only work with physical damage. It'd end up being about the same damage and the less enchants you have on you, the less they can shatter. Atleast I think so, don't flame me if I'm wrong.

No flames here, you are 100% correct. Tombs is a mesmer-heavy area, you're just asking for shatter-bait with conjure spells ... and, as you mentioned, winnowing won't work with an elemental stringed bow. I had to go and make a Zealous Ascalon bow (recurve class) since for some odd reason my 2 other bows are both elemental

Titan Chrae · Mar 23, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

i'd say order of the vamp is much more helpful than BIP - five rangers hitting (lets say 3 ) targets per salvo are healing 17*3 health each, the extra energy from a bip is far less usefull to a monk than the rangers not needing as much healing in the first place

and if the MM needs a bip, then they're just plain awful at energy management

I dont BiP the MM...I BiP the monk. OoV heals whether you need it or not. Since the monk now has a constant +9 Energy regen, he can more efficiently use his energy whereever it is needed. The OoV is not even missed since OoP is up 80% of the time.

Also note, as stated above, OoV and OoP no longer stack. You only need one.