Curse

winkgood · Nov 14, 2006, 08:44 AM // 08:44

This really is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I have been increasingly fed up with the amount of hero npc teams filling heroes ascent. Tonight, we faced an npc team that took the cake. The individual's soul purpose was to force people to quit so that they could fame farm. The individuals team consisted of 4 monks (2 heroes, 1 henchman, and himself), 1 paragon, and a fighter henchman. Even before we started the match, this person started gloating and insisting that we should resign rather than endure the match. Since we hadn't encountered this type of hench team before, we ingnored the person's suggestions and played the match as normal. Several minutes into the match, it was clear that the person's build was not designed to win offensively, but to have so much healing power that the other team would eventually give up.

Is this going to be the new trend for fame farming in heroes ascent or can we count on Anet to do something about this? I've also submitted a report to NCSoft support although from past experience, I have received very little respose from them.

B Ephekt · Nov 14, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

I'm pretty sure it's your own fault for spending 40 minutes on Underworld rather than just resigning.

Heroes in pvp are pertty damn lame though.

Arduin · Nov 14, 2006, 08:54 AM // 08:54

There sure are some sick people out there...

jonnybegood · Nov 14, 2006, 08:55 AM // 08:55

please I am interest in the reaction some of you gave. I see nothing with what he was saying, except for some criticism at the start. But holding builds have been around forever. anyone remember spirit spammers? but Heroes have nothing to do with this, and taking them out would not solve anything.

What reaction were you expecting to get from Anet? The have made a career choice that they have had to think out for a while. or else the money is gone. So taking this decision back would be ignorant and unprofessional.

Also for a time there was a problem with elitism in HA, if you were on the side for it then not much has changed in that perspective.

But if you complained about not getting in high level groups then I would say whining is to frequent, and judging from your post I can guess you would agree with anti elitism.

winkgood · Nov 14, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

I'm pretty sure it's your own fault for spending 40 minutes on Underworld rather than just resigning.

Heroes in pvp are pertty damn lame though.

We stopped fighting after about 10-15 minutes. The rest of the time we were on the other side of the map and talking on vent. I was also getting screen shots of the conversation during this time and submitting a report to NCSoft. It wasn't a total waste of time as I made good use of the time.

Daithi the wolf · Nov 14, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Wow that really sucks. I knew Heros were being over-used in HA but thats total abuse. Maybe your party's build was the specific type he was aiming to fight? I'm sure there are builds that could beat him.

Thallandor · Nov 14, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

So you are posting this so that more players can do this farming fame with Heros? woah how generous of you to share.

Perhaps if enough players actually exploit this, Anet may just have to do something about this...hmm why didnt i think of this.

Maybe i will try this before they nerf it?

Then again there probably will be others who might post in a few days from now saying that because your team wasnt prepared for a Hero healing build so Heros must be removed from HA? Then again Anet did nerf MM factory cause players didnt have a counter for it in ABs and it was overpowered.

But.... but.... didnt i remember that all the 1337 PvPers were saying that it wasnt losing to Heroway that they wanted Heros out of HA??

This reminds me of the time when some were Q_Qing about runners and protection monks in RA.

Maybe if theres enough Q_Qing here things would change. Good luck.

The Bloodrose · Nov 14, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quit crying, suck it up and learn to beat them. All the PvPers tell the PvE farmers "Hey, learn to adapt after the nerf." So ya know what, stfu, quit bitching, and adapt. I'll jump on the side of the fanboys or the anet zealots and say "Isen't this the 249873469834th topic about this?" Oh noes..heroway beat me againz...

winkgood · Nov 14, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daithi the wolf

Wow that really sucks. I knew Heros were being over-used in HA but thats total abuse. Maybe your party's build was the specific type he was aiming to fight? I'm sure there are builds that could beat him.

We weren't using any kind of cookie cutter build. Its actually quite different from the fotm's going around right now. A standard searing flames group with glyph + meteor probably could have won because he bunched up in a ball when we went to the other side while he was afking. I guess that's our punishment for using creative builds.

Thallandor:

What would you suggest then? Keep quiet and hope nobody finds out about this? The developers do read this forums and any chance for an in game change would start here. Also, this isn't a balance issue that needs a nerf. This is called taking advantage of the Hero and npc AI and exploiting the fame system.

The Bloodrose:

So what you are saying is we should adjust our build just in case we face a team that focusses on staying alive instead of winning? Wow, what a thoughtful idea. Lets see... Our build has vocal minority (with cover hexes) both of which were removed instantly by divert hexes or one of the many remove hexes. Depravity with cover hexes was also instantly removed from any target. Any damage we dealt was instantly healed up by the plethera of monks. The build we were running had heavy e-denial and degen to counter the many fotm builds out there. We won halls six times in a row last night (7 times total) with it and slightly adjusted the build today. Oh yes, you are very thoughtful indeed. Lets throw away a good build to bring an anti "stay alive" build in case we run into people with no lives. The fact that the person asked us to give up before even seeing our build is a good sign that his build has been able to do the same thing against MANY other builds.

The Silver Star · Nov 14, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Its not the fact that "Oh noes..heroway beat me againz...

" its the fact that 90% of the teams are AI and not real people and that 50% of the time now you have to do /roll 100 and loser resigns, even though sometimes they refuse to.

Ghost Recon · Nov 14, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

This thread is stupid, hero's aren't the problem what is stopping a team of 6 humans from making the same team and just waiting the other team out? No one would be complaining at that you would just think they where idiots and resign.

Saphatorael · Nov 14, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

Its not the fact that "Oh noes..heroway beat me againz...

" its the fact that 90% of the teams are AI and not real people and that 50% of the time now you have to do /roll 100 and loser resigns, even though sometimes they refuse to.

Oh, and HA isn't PvP anymore, if you just look at those percentages you said.

I mean, it's PLAYER vs. PLAYER, HELLO?
I haven't done HA for weeks, but i can imagine al the fame farmers from what I've heard, one more sadder than the other...

I don't think I'll even go back to HA anymore if it's not 'PvP' anymore, even RA has more level than that imo, then.

phasola · Nov 14, 2006, 09:20 AM // 09:20

What's the point of this ? Heroes will remain because PvE carebears can get into "groups" and farm fame. As for PvP, who cares about that ?

Rhedd · Nov 14, 2006, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Odd fact:

I recently wrote Anet with some concerns I had over setting up simple macros for a new gaming device. I wanted to make sure I wasn't breaking any rules.

The response was that as long as the macros emulated normal key functions, and I WAS REQUIRED TO BE PRESENT AT THE COMPUTER TO PLAY, it wasn't breaking the rules.

Odd, then, that by this jerk's own admission, he was breaking that very rule (he went and watched TV, ate, etc.) using only the tools that Anet gave him.

I wonder if he'll get punished for being reported for this.

Oh, and Ghost Recon, don't be dumb. The difference here is that a human team made up of the same build would have to be present and PLAY, not go off and watch TV while the AI does the work.

Thallandor · Nov 14, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Thallandor:

What would you suggest then? Keep quiet and hope nobody finds out about this? The developers do read this forums and any chance for an in game change would start here. Also, this isn't a balance issue that needs a nerf. This is called taking advantage of the Hero and npc AI and exploiting the fame system.

Well tbh i wasnt intend on helping, merely pointing out potential consequences that may occur. Though Developers do read these forums, so do many crude and unimaginative players. I merely implying that posting this as an excuse itself doesnt justify removing Hero other than to encourage such future behaviour. Solution? Beat it.

As for taking advantage and exploiting fame system, isnt is what PvP is about? Players taking advantage of the unprepareness of others to win? unless its a balance issue which you also claim that it isnt that requires a nerf. As discussed many months ago, theres a fine line between tactics vs expliot and unless that line is crossed, its considered "fair" play.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

This thread is stupid, hero's aren't the problem what is stopping a team of 6 humans from making the same team and just waiting the other team out? No one would be complaining at that you would just think they where idiots and resign.

You took the words out of my mouth.

winkgood · Nov 14, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

This thread is stupid, hero's aren't the problem what is stopping a team of 6 humans from making the same team and just waiting the other team out? No one would be complaining at that you would just think they where idiots and resign.

Except that 6 humans actually have to work to stay alive. This person can go off and do whatever he wants, come back an hour later, and have their 1 fame. How is this any different than botting which so many people voiced strong opinions against?

jonnybegood · Nov 14, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

This thread is stupid, hero's aren't the problem what is stopping a team of 6 humans from making the same team and just waiting the other team out? No one would be complaining at that you would just think they where idiots and resign.

TY TY and this is the first time you have run into this type of group? I haven't seen to many playing like this. Also if this was a problem how do you suggest fixing it. seems lik e all your doing is making complaints, and if you sent a complaing to anet then why say your posting it here so they see it?

Ghost Recon · Nov 14, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Well imo match times should be limited say 20-30 minutes max. If this time is reached and no team has won either both teams loses or both teams win get moved to different maps but get no fame for the win.

arcady · Nov 14, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Could this be taken down with a Mesmer team doing energy shutdown of some kind? Or perhaps something with Paragons?

I think the difference between heroes and henchies as opposed to this run by all humans is that all humans would be less likely to hold the line and keep managing it for 40+ minutes...

Heroes on the other hand, can be outsmarted. If the person running them starts to go afk, you can probably kite them away from each other and kill where they won't go and rez fast enough before you kill the next one...

Especially given the way the AI likes to flee now...

Braggi · Nov 14, 2006, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

This thread is stupid, hero's aren't the problem what is stopping a team of 6 humans from making the same team ...

Wrong, heroes are exactly the problem, because now it only takes one player to waste 6 other players' time...