Curse

Paperfly · Nov 12, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

5 - Monk with Mending. You know why? Because he STILL had the disease quest from Cantha. Can you believe this? He had the Protector of Cantha Title and was still running around with that certain Quest Disease. Sigh -.-

...Seriously, there's no way that happens through incompetence. Either he was griefing and thought he was funny, or he was griefing and thought it was performance art. The difference? How much was spent by taxpayers on his education!

Back on topic, one of the doom predictions that was floating around* before Nightfall came out was that too many of the 'intermediate' players who aren't experienced enough to win with henchies alone would migrate exclusively to heroes, leaving PuGs to begginers, idiots and the desperately lonely. Assuming these last are comparatively rare, it would make sense that the average PuG skill is dwindling... But I'm feeling just optimistic enough that I'll say we should wait a couple more weeks for the novelty of heroes to settle down and see how many people come back to the fold.

*By which I mean, "I posted it a lot and got worked up about it!"

Alt F Four · Nov 12, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38

I quote,

'how do you mm wthout heal area??'
'I use Aura of the Lich, I don't need it.'
'noob get golem'

Kick.

Dirty Savage · Nov 12, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Against all odds, thus far my PUG experience in NF has been totally positive. I can't really believe it myself. After the 50/50 of Prophecies and the complete and utter horror of Factions PUG groups, my lord, so far all has been really great and I don't know why that is.

Well, thinking about it for one thing now that we all have our own lvl 20 monks at our disposal that cuts down on wait times a whole lot, so that is a good thing especially for those of us that don't have a lot of time to play. So that, indeed, is a good thing.

I dunno, maybe I've just been extremely lucky in NF. Haven't had any leavers or rage quitters as of yet. The closest thing I had that came close to conflict was yesterday when I revisted Consulate Docks to try and get the masters reward. There were 6 humans plus the obligatory Dunkoro. The person who put the party together was adamant that he was gonna bring his lvl 7 Koss. A few of the players then stated that if he insisted on doing so they were gonna up and leave the party, so he relented.

In the same party, there ended up being 3 necros, including myself. Builds were discussed and it turned out we were all MM. "Can someone go SS?" Well, I couldn't because I don't have the skills yet and neither could either of the other two. Someone else said, hey, you know what, just go with what you're good at and so we did. 3 necros and a whole pile of minions and it was decided that I would just spam Blood of the Master at all times and hang in the back, which I did and we blew through that mission without a single death.

In conclusion, yes, it is harder to get into PUG groups now that heroes are involved. I agree that the novelty will wear off sooner or later as those of us, like myself, enjoy the interaction with other people. I mean, Factions groups were absolutely horrid and totally left a bad taste in my mouth. Everywhere you went groups were always looking for certain builds and if you didn't have said build, well sorry buddy you're out. It didn't matter that you may have been an expert player running, say, a curses build but if the team wanted a MM and you were clueless what to do well, you'd be more of a detriment to the team. But no one seems to realize that.

God, I ramble.

Feurin Longcastle · Nov 12, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

My guildmates don't PvE nearly as much as I do, which prior to NF has left me forced to resorting to PuG's. I can honestly say that out of the countless PuG's I've been with, maybe 20% weren't complete disasters and half of those truly competent.

It got to the point that I was trying to figure out all of the nuances of henchmen to optimize their use (managed to get all Elite Skills capped that way).

Now that NF is here, I haven't even bothered with PuG's except for Docks, which as expected was a disaster. I've gotten 17/20 Masters with just Heroes and henches alone. I see no reason to ever go through PuG hell ever again.

Dandy Warhol · Nov 12, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

I only PuG'd Consulate Docks with my Factions monk and everything went well there. I'm stuck on Gate of Madness with my derv and I'm terrified of getting a PuG because a) no one trusts dervishes (with good reason) and b) I don't trust other people to play it.

ThunderStruck · Nov 12, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I've basically only Pugged Gates of Madness, and they have been pretty good players. On Abbadon's Gate the pugs are not as good, so I am stuck right at the end of the game hehe

Samuel Dravis · Nov 12, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I've had about two PuG groups in Nightfall. They ended in utter disaster every time due to a complete and utter lack of ability to aggro properly (and distinguish between skills that are good and those that are crap). This is playing my monk, and usually I can keep people alive - I single monk FoW a lot etc. Well, this time it didn't work out that way. Using PuGs has turned out to be a massive waste of time if I actually want to get somewhere.

My survivor paragon will not use PuGs ever. I honestly have no idea how the heck people can even play the game, them being so absolutely horrible at it. Do they just do the starter quests for days on end because they can't get past the first group of level 1 enemies? Jeebus. Their comprehension of game mechanics and complimentary, or even decent, skillbars is zero.

Thallandor · Nov 13, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Tried a PuG once in Grandcourt once - got wiped then i went back with Heros and cleared it.

Tried a PuG once in Gate of Maddness once - got to shiro and played tag with him for 2 hours and could not kill him since our warrior with wild blow raged on us. Went back with Heros and cleared mission.

I think PuGs are pointless.

MaglorD · Nov 13, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmouse

The best pugs were on the first day. Even though there were only about 3 people in the realm of torment, you could party with them because they were all good. We did the gate of madness and then abaddon on the first try and nobody left in between, try doing that nowadays.

Well TBH, Madness wasn't hard first few days of NF cuz Shiro only attacked the tank(highest AL) unless the tank died. Even so, when ressed quickly, he went back to attacking the tank.

Tozen · Nov 13, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Off Topic: Nice new armor Zinger.

On Topic: I've tried playing without heroes about 10 times. Each time I found myself smacking myself in the face for doing so. Playing with guildies is one thing, but my experience with the average PUG is very disconcerting.

Examples So Far:
1. The Frenzy Tanking Dervish
2. The Paragon using shouts with no points in respective trees.
3. 3 monks in a group all without condition or hex removal.
4. My ritualist doing more damage wanding the enemy than my entire team of seven other people. (I wish I was joking)
5. Characters playing with holiday hats. Yeah, they're cute, but save those for your henchies please -_-

If I find any other funny ones I'll post them here. I don't believe that most PUGs suck as some do, but I certainly have been unlucky thus far. Heroes do the job just fine and I never take risks with them!

Former Ruling · Nov 13, 2006, 06:04 AM // 06:04

After beating Gates of Madness and all the people in the district saying it was impossible to do with henchies and heros and that I was lying, I offered my help to one dervish. The only PuGing (or even ANY human grouping, friend or stranger) I did in Nightfall.

I let him try it his way. His build setup was weird and provided for NO dmg or anything outside of the Shiro Fight (He had spoilers, CripShot ranger, etc..). So of course we got wiped on the first group of torments we faced (didnt even make it to Shiro'ken).

Aphraelyn · Nov 14, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Eh, I really like PuGing cuz well...I just do...but every time I go into a mission its always just people with 8s on top of their heads cuz of heroes and henchies =/

However, all my PuGs so far in NF have been awesome...smacked Gates of Madness on my first try...Abaddon on my first try as well.

Personally I think...no matter how good heroes may seem, and they may be better than your average "lawl I r use mending n fenzy k?" people...heroes will never match up to decent players =/

birdfoot · Nov 14, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Oh well, there aren't many good PUGs out there (depends on luck) and I have the same experience playing from Prophecies till Nightfall. But then again, there are good ones from time to time and those will be the ones that allow you to enjoy your missions/quests to its fullest. I beat the game with 80% using hero/hench but I must say that it's most fun playing in a PUG.

But one thing I must say, play in a PUG when you're in the right mood. It takes quite alot of patience and tolerance helping newer players get to know the mission/quest and even going to re-attempt them. If you know the mission well, always offer to lead. If you're the leader, don't hesitate to boot players (the bad eggs) that aren't co-operating; I wouldn't kick 'incompetent' members though unless they are too stubborn to listen, noobs can be taught and most are quite nice folks. With the introduction of heroes, at least there's no dire need for a full human party to PUG anymore; I think PUGs will be fun again.

Dazzler · Nov 14, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

I *always* PUGed in the first 2 chapters. I haven't done any PUGs yet in NF. Well...I teamed up with a Dervish in Consolate Docks b/c my Drunkoro was low level (I was a Tyrian character). But the dervish behaved himself and just followed me around while me and Sousuke nuked everything and Olias sent his minions everywhere and my heroes interrupted everything and we got masters easily.

I thought about PUGing last night in that mission where you kill the demon in the waterworks but everyone was spamming that they *needed* a Ranger with Winter and I was like WTF. So I took my team of heroes and henchies that did *not* have Winter and we easily got masters.

I thought about PUGing again last night in Mordach's(?) Crevice and this time ppl were spamming they had to have a ranger with cripple or an ele with ice snares. Well I wasn't gonna change my build from fire to ice so I took my team of heroes and henchies and got masters easily again. When we saw the 2 sentries, we just nuked them. No need to cripple them when they are dead lol.

I guess my point is sometimes the PUGs get all this tunnel-vision that there is ONE TRUE WAY to beat the mission and won't have it any other way.

I am very happy to have my heroes.

birdfoot · Nov 14, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzler

I *always* PUGed in the first 2 chapters. I haven't done any PUGs yet in NF. Well...I teamed up with a Dervish in Consolate Docks b/c my Drunkoro was low level (I was a Tyrian character). But the dervish behaved himself and just followed me around while me and Sousuke nuked everything and Olias sent his minions everywhere and my heroes interrupted everything and we got masters easily.

I thought about PUGing last night in that mission where you kill the demon in the waterworks but everyone was spamming that they *needed* a Ranger with Winter and I was like WTF. So I took my team of heroes and henchies that did *not* have Winter and we easily got masters.

I thought about PUGing again last night in Mordach's(?) Crevice and this time ppl were spamming they had to have a ranger with cripple or an ele with ice snares. Well I wasn't gonna change my build from fire to ice so I took my team of heroes and henchies and got masters easily again. When we saw the 2 sentries, we just nuked them. No need to cripple them when they are dead lol.

I guess my point is sometimes the PUGs get all this tunnel-vision that there is ONE TRUE WAY to beat the mission and won't have it any other way.

I am very happy to have my heroes.

Hehe... I get what you mean. I get stucked in Dune of Despair alot because most groups go for a cookie-cutter build demanding at least 2 monks. I must admit that most missions do require having at least a monk, tank, etc to work but most PUGs just aren't willing to take up other proposals. IMO, PUGs killed themselves, it's not heroes to blame; they were probably the result of PUGs to begin with.

It's always safer to join a PUG that is more organized, with a leader who knows how to abstain from inviting any other person (just becos he needs a full party, unless there's not many around) and being able to assign roles; and members who are co-operative and do as told. Upon failure, a PUG can always analyse what was wrong and make fine adjustments to re-attempt. Only problem here is most PUGs don't know what's going on or have no patience to re-attempt. I learnt alot from PUGs, the good ones taught me what works, the crappy ones simply taught me what doesn't and to stay away form them.