Curse

Sekkira · Nov 11, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Okay okay. Lets look at this arguement in a little more depth:

Thunderhead Keep.

Eilsys · Nov 11, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Okay okay. Lets look at this arguement in a little more depth:

Thunderhead Keep.

I was about to say "U CAN JUST HENCH IT LOLZ", but then I remembered I was thinkin' of the new players.

But THK is pretty far in, right? People should've figured things out by then... unless I'm totally misunderstanding your comment?

Sekkira · Nov 11, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eilsys

But THK is pretty far in, right? People should've figured things out by then... unless I'm totally misunderstanding your comment?

My point is that yes they should have figured things out by then. Well... Go there now and I'm sure there's a bunch of people that still haven't figured it out.

I know of people who've spent 1.5 years playing the game and still don't understand basic concepts such as kiting, damage mitigation, positioning, pulling, etc.

Yes Nightfall is hard, I don't deny that. But so was Prophecies when we all first done it. I remember stepped outside Ascalon city after the searing and getting raped by devourers. The whole point being that of course it's hard as a newbie. Just a better incentive to understand the game more.

C2K · Nov 11, 2006, 11:54 AM // 11:54

I always though Raisu Palace to be the hardest non-elite mission in the game so far. It seems unless you get a good, competent team, you end up getting beat by Shiro'ken eles and rangers(which are the strongest shiro'ken IMO).

The second hardest mission would probably be Vizunah Square, because you know the Factions team is most likely going to suck and you really need to have a good Foreign team to carry the load.

Jaml · Nov 11, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Thunderhead keep is a joke compared to most missions in Nightfall(I easily hench that one) and still people continue to fail at it. Imagine those people in Nightfall missions. The majority of players isn´t that hardcore, they buy a game and enjoy playing through the campaign once, maybe twice if they really like it. Maybe with a friend or two. Do you think they will buy future chapters of the game if their mending warrior gets trashed so hard so early in the game? I know this is an extreme example of noobness but it serves to get the point across.
I try to PUG alot even if it became harder and if we could look at the server logs i bet the failure rate of certain missions is way above what it was in previous campaigns. That or i always just happen to be in the wrong groups cause we die alot.

garethporlest18 · Nov 11, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eilsys

EDIT: I don't have a ranger hero... what then? :|

You obviously shoulda picked your hero's better eh?

Also for people that are new to GW through NF, well that's their problem I'm not and I have all the right skills needed to get by so tough luck to them haha. If they need help I'll help them with my rightly skilled hero's.

Eilsys · Nov 11, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

You obviously shoulda picked your hero's better eh?

Also for people that are new to GW through NF, well that's their problem I'm not and I have all the right skills needed to get by so tough luck to them haha. If they need help I'll help them with my rightly skilled hero's.

I got the Ranger on my Para. :P I wanted to unlock the Ele.

stueyman2099 · Nov 11, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

I can see how newer players could have problems with this. Quite a few parts of this game require some counters you may not use elsewhere (though prot spirit is the counter more often than not). The problem newer players will run into is not understanding what happened to them, and even if they do, this game has alot of skills to choose from, so knowing what you need to counter somthing is as much of a problem.

garethporlest18 · Nov 11, 2006, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eilsys

I got the Ranger on my Para. :P I wanted to unlock the Ele.

Well DH I'm sure you have Broadhead Arrow unlocked. Should have made him E/R and used him for that

.

Menzoberranzan · Nov 11, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

My point is that yes they should have figured things out by then. Well... Go there now and I'm sure there's a bunch of people that still haven't figured it out.

I know of people who've spent 1.5 years playing the game and still don't understand basic concepts such as kiting, damage mitigation, positioning, pulling, etc.

Yes Nightfall is hard, I don't deny that. But so was Prophecies when we all first done it. I remember stepped outside Ascalon city after the searing and getting raped by devourers. The whole point being that of course it's hard as a newbie. Just a better incentive to understand the game more.

Yeah! I got so disappointed when I couldn't solo the areas anymore after Pre Sear. The Devourers just owned me. Very depressing that time lol

Eilsys · Nov 11, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Well DH I'm sure you have Broadhead Arrow unlocked. Should have made him E/R and used him for that

.

Bah. I suppose I could've done that...

Sekkira · Nov 11, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

You obviously shoulda picked your hero's better eh?

Heh, teaches people that the Warrior + Monk + Ele isn't all there is to the game.

Also, I'd like to point out that I beat Gate of Pain purely through the help of my level 11 Jin. I don't care what level you are, you can survive anything if your enemy is interrupted.

lg5000 · Nov 11, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaml

The majority of players isn´t that hardcore

I consider myself to be a casual player... and except for 1 mission which used a pug (and got failed 4 times in a row) I've managed to finish nightfall with my heros and henchies.. admitedly, this was with my tyrian character. (mesmer, hence no wanting to stand around spamming lfg for hours at a time)

My nightfall character, so far, has no problems with the game.. is lvl18, is at sunspear... the sunspear city on the mainland.. and is about 1000 points off the sunspear title to progress in the game. No non-nightfall skills are on her (she's a necro running blood and I'm outta skill points). The only thing I admit is having heros who have builds that use the unlocked skills over the last 2 campaigns.

Really, a casual player is (should be) more inclined to play with pugs (and therefore people with lots of skills unlocked) than the more non-casual player..

*edit: too late at night to deal with english.. .

Kidney Licker · Nov 11, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

When I first started Prophecies I think I actually PUG'ed 90% of the missions, maybe 100%. It was fun and you learnt a lot in PUG's especially if you were new to online games.

I can definitely see the more experienced players taking heroes and henchies through the missions and quests to see everything quickly. Heck, I henched everything, except for 2 missions, but my timezone is pretty quiet at times.

I guess having a better group formation system would help bring newer and older players together. Half the reason for henching is less hassle and older players know they can get through most of the missions with them. A/Net's no subscription fee model is pretty attractive to new online players you would think, but if there isn't really the community ingame to support them then that's going to be a problem.

some guy · Nov 11, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

If you think thats hard, you haven't seen any thing yet from the realm of the torment.

icedragon981 · Nov 11, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by some guy

If you think thats hard, you haven't seen any thing yet from the realm of the torment.

Heh, my Paragon is stuck on the second to last mission. (Running SV, Wild blow, etc. I came close to killing Shiro multiple times but to no avail.)
But seriously, I think Nightfall is much harder than the other two chapters, Prophecies can easily be henced with little or no attention paid, Factions? Just get a good MM. But Nightfall was definatly targeted towards the older player base and, I guess, since it, sort of, ties together both games and seems to bring an end to the "Trilogy" the wanted it to be an enjoyable and challenging game over-all.

Cymmina · Nov 11, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

The only mission I found particularly difficult was Gate of Madness. It required good pulling/agro techniques (something that wasn't entirely necessary for the previous missions, so I got lazy), and of course Shiro is a pain.

Missions I wasn't able to breeze through without a number of build tweaks with 2 players (1 war, 1 mesmer) and 6 heroes (haven't done the Master of Whispers' Vabbi mission yet):

Gate of Madness
Dasha Vestibule (ended up taking 3 eles with Extinguish)
Jennur's Horde (seriously, wtf is with neverending waves of guys?)

Most of the other missions, if we didn't breeze through on the first try (usually with the bonus), we only screwed it up because of inexperience with the mission (like, we got too close to the citadel in the Cemetery mission).

Rusty Deth · Nov 11, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

After beating Nightfall I'd say it's up there in difficulty...

Gates of Madness was crazy. As if closing the portals wasn't fun enough the Lich was curiously a pushover and Shiro was mysteriously stronger. Not to forget the little handicap on healing you have during the whole mission. After doing it 12 or so times, its now one of my favorites to do. I just wish greens were dropping at the end...

But then theres the last level, which IMO is the most intersting of them all. I'd have to say this was one mission where everytime you do it, you never know what might happen in it.

Sometimes we got spammed 4 times in a row by Words of Madness, and at 120 damage each time you'd see how fun that got.

And then other times we got surrounded by Torment Claws. One time we saw all but 4 Torment Claws and almost had Abaddon, but then another time we faced 7 Torment Claws before we even got to Abaddons right hand for the first time.

All I can say is the Hero's come in handy. Without them beating the game would never happen. The Henchies are still a coin toss and getting a PuG would just be frustrating.

But after 3 days of fighting level 24 and 28 mobs I can definately say these last few levels make you a better player. Not only that but determination makes you overcome your enemies.

But after failing so many times you can't imagine the reward of seeing the xp show up on the screen and the mission goes to a cut scene. Best feeling in the world.

Matix411 · Nov 11, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by some guy

If you think thats hard, you haven't seen any thing yet from the realm of the torment.

rofl ...
I hate the Realm of Torment.
I FINALLY beat Gate of Pain with heros+henchies after like, 15 attempts. At first I just had no idea what to do and then I just kept getting owned because Koss would randomly run into mobs, then ... I realised you can put him on guard and he doesn't do that ... as much.
So, I got the Kormir's Crusade quest, and, too lazy to have to fight ALL those mobs after ridiculous attempts at Gate of Pain, I ran myself all the way to Gate of Madness in an attempt to finish Kormir's Crusade. For some reason I neglected to remember that, zoning yourself during a quest puts the NPCs back where they started. So, I thought I could go into Gate of Madness, come back out, and that spirit would be right there to rescue, but no, I have to do it all over again cause I made an idiotic decision.
Either way.
Realm of Torment is up there in hardness, the rest of the game has been a breeze except for one or two missions. Some of the Master quests are ridiculous in terms of the amount of mobs you have to fight, but once you get the hang of it it's fun.
Guild Wiki comes in handy ... oh yes, very much so.
I think in the forum, where we welcome the newbies, we should make a thread that says "Read Here" and inside simply says "Go study Guild Wiki for the love of god." haha.
No, but it helps, really, and a lot of people don't bother to read up on builds and stuff to see how they can better their chances at succeeding in the game.

Now I'm stuck at Gate of Madness and I'm afraid to even try this mission, A) because finding a real group of people to play these missions with is not only the most ridiculous waste of time, but it fails worse than when I play with heros and henchies. And B) I don't want to fight Shiro again ....

haha.

It's funny though, after playing through the game with heros and henchies, you (or at least I) have realised how much I DON'T know about this game, regardless of how long I've played. I'm still learning a lot, and a big part of that has been creating builds for all my heros. The hardest ones are casters because I'm so used to playing warriors and rangers. It's fun though when you create a build and have it work out the way you've planned though. I never really thought about other people's builds in Prophs or Factions (except monks) because I just relied on getting healed so much that I wouldn't have to worry about anything else. Now I at least make an attempt to come as prepared as I can.
Still difficult at times, but I don't think Nightfall is anywhere near as difficult as Prophecies or Factions (Factions especially), except ... for Realm of Torment.
I miss the Prophecies campaign ... I kind of want to play through it again for a refresher.

Dandy Warhol · Nov 11, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Heh, teaches people that the Warrior + Monk + Ele isn't all there is to the game.

Also, I'd like to point out that I beat Gate of Pain purely through the help of my level 11 Jin. I don't care what level you are, you can survive anything if your enemy is interrupted.

Haha, I did the exact same thing!