Curse

Jaml · Nov 11, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Warning! This post contains some spoilers.

Is it just me or are certain areas of the game too hard? I played over 1400 hours of Guild wars so i have a lot of skills unlocked but can´t complete certain missions like Rilohn refuge. I mean how are you supposed to take down a earth ele boss that already does huge damage when you have a constant aura that increases damage dealt to you on top of all the other damage. Or for example the Mission after that in the caves where the archers before the bosses spike your monks in one shot? Or the defend that city missions with that overwhelming force incoming? Or capping searing flames against those one shot kill fire eles...
Ok i made all those missions with the help of a good mesmer and some guildies but how are new people supposed to beat those with only some basic skills and their henchies? They don´t know the specific counterbuilds required in those missions in the first place, they just want to play the game and have fun and even if they did know, the henchies just aren´t up to the task.
Even with heroes i seem to have no chance to advance the game by myself, so whats the point to them? And finding a PUG nowadays is nearly impossible since everyone plays by himself.
I think a lot of people will get frustrated with the huge knowledge and skill required to progress in the second half of the game and just give up on Guild wars. I know i already went back to other games cause playing for an hour to get to the end of a mission only to have the entire group spiked in under 2 seconds by a sandstorm isn´t funny. Such things can be put into optional content like elite missions but the campaign should be doable by a player of average skill like myself and probably many others.
Its sad because i think Nightfall is a very good game but its very frustrating for players like me. This probably sounds like a rant and probably it is but i just wanted to express my dissappointment in not being able to have fun because of certain design decisions i just find ridiculous.

garethporlest18 · Nov 11, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Well you got plenty of shutdown attacks you can do and armor increases. Monks with Prot Spirit and Shield of Absorption. Warriors with Dolyak Signet, Ele's with Ward Against Elements, Kinetic Armor, Armor of Earth (a basic earth spell). Mesmers with Backfire, and Guilt etc. Rangers with the beautiful Broadhead Arrow, put that on a ranger hero and he's down for the count. The people that don't have this stuff, will learn of it and try to get it, if they can't they will find another way. Learn by failing.

Hockster · Nov 11, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

It's just you. Nightfall is the easiest of the series so far. Learn how to control your hench and heroes. Flag placement is crucial in many missions. As is selecting the correct party/skill makeup.

Sectus · Nov 11, 2006, 09:02 AM // 09:02

I've completed the game entire game using heroes and henchies, and I even got masters on every mission. (the only missions I did with humans players are the 2 last missions, but I'm sure those can be completed with heroes and henchmen as well.) So I'm definitely sure the entire game can be completed using only heroes and henchmen.

In my opinion, I wish the game were harder. I thought it was pretty easy until you got to Realm of Torment. I can understand that people completely new to Guild Wars might have difficulty, especially when it comes to building effective builds, but I don't think Anet should always cater to completely new players. Most of the people playing Nightfall has played Factions and Prophecies, and we want new challenging content. We don't want missions or quests we can just dance right through without worry.

Corpselooter · Nov 11, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

The Drought is plain easyness, Arcane Thievery + Diversion + Arcane Larceny + Broadhead Arrow = Byebye drought.

Anyway, i agree with some parts being overly hard, i mean wtf killing a boss that is only suspectible to attacks for 10 seconds with lots of margonites coming at you? =|

Another example, Dasha Vestibule mission. Goren dies. Goren dies. Goren dies. Goren doesn't die, you get owned by fire djinn boss. You don't die Goren doesn't either, mission completed. Great, now you can do attack at the kodash. Party gets wiped, lots of Margonites on Kodash Forum. Pwnd.

arcanemacabre · Nov 11, 2006, 09:10 AM // 09:10

All I got to say about that mission is this: Winter + Spinal Shivers + Elemental weapon mods = FTW

Seriously, we laid waste to that mission.

Clord · Nov 11, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

You can put flag under that "ramp" or whatever it is called. Then those Kourman archers in top can't shoot you.

Lost · Nov 11, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

It sounds like 90% of the problems in this thread can be solved by Protective Spirit.

Omega X · Nov 11, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost

It sounds like 90% of the problems in this thread can be solved by Protective Spirit.

100% of the problems in this thread can be solved with taking the right builds.

Jaml · Nov 11, 2006, 09:42 AM // 09:42

You all postet great counter builds but like i said a lot those skills aren´t available to new players. And heroes don´t use a lot of them correctly without huge amounts of micro. I made those missions with some of my guildies(who played thousands of hours and are therefore very good) but died a lot trying to solo them when nobody was around and you are forced to bring specific counters unlike in prophecies. This makes progression extremely hard for new/average players. You should have a chance without being forced to rely on complicated build combinations. It may seem easy for experienced players with deep knowledge of build creation but everyone else will simply see an unsurmountable obstacle and put the game on the shelf never touching it again. Wasting an hour only to die in 2 seconds is like a slap in the face. You don´t think its a challenge anymore you just think its a cheap way to kill players using bosses that seem like they are in godmode. You can put such bosses in the game if you make them like shiro where you can instantly fight him again if you fail but don´t put such things on the end of a long mission cause its frustrating.

=HT=Ingram · Nov 11, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

I do grab PUs if I see em. Most of the time I get someplace and no one is around or not interested in doing what I happen to be doing. I don't sit around doing LFG for hours on end. I either go with guildies, allies, or if I see a few PUGs (I'll Admit this is rare) But in general near the end of the game. especially the last few missions, Heroes are really no fun to play with. sure its doable, but I for one prefer a large team play for these kinds of areas. I think this will always be the case, because of 2 reasons. going with a full party improves mission time, and improves drop rates, cause you don't have heroes and henchies eating up potential drops...

Mr_T_bot · Nov 11, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Warriors with Dolyak Signet,

Prophecies only

Quote:

Ele's with Ward Against Elements, Kinetic Armor,

Prophecies only.

Quote:

Rangers with the beautiful Broadhead Arrow,

Factions only elite.

You didn't dispell the "how will new players be able to know how to counter this?" at all, in fact you compounded it by listing half your skills as ones requiring the two other chapters plus two elites.

Quote:

All I got to say about that mission is this: Winter + Spinal Shivers

Prophecies only.

Quote:

Arcane Larceny + Broadhead Arrow

Factions only.

Quote:

100% of the problems in this thread can be solved with taking the right builds.

Which require both other chapters. I challenge you people to put together one from core and Nightfall only skills.

Mel X · Nov 11, 2006, 09:52 AM // 09:52

for the first 1 bring winter. for the 2nd 1 bring shields up. for the 3rd 1 dont wait for them to come to u. for the searing flame guys i dont kno. bring mantra flame and prot spirit and spirit bond and incoming and stand you ground. those are good for eles.

i hope this helps u. dont get mad cuz other ppl say nf is easy. it is not easy. they just kno how to play now and they didnt before. now they know so now it is easy for them.

gl

Drop of Fear · Nov 11, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

too hard? is ridiculously easy. u aren't supposed to beat the final 3 missions, including killing shiro, litch and abaddon, with a full hench team, at first try and without being skilled and knowing what to expect...

propechies and factios were way harder

arcanemacabre · Nov 11, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

Prophecies only.

Seriously? I was wondering about that. I thought Winter was core, may be wrong. Though I could swear one of the hero trainers had it...

Honestly, you really only need Winter, I just added Spinal Shivers as a nice combo, but Winter alone negates that area effect of double damage. But yeah...

lightblade · Nov 11, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

...
Which require both other chapters. I challenge you people to put together one from core and Nightfall only skills.

I accept you challenge.

This is Hero 1:
[skill]Concussion Shot[/skill] core
[skill]Distracting Shot[/skill] core
[skill]Savage Shot[/skill] core
[skill]Favorable Winds[/skill] core
[skill]Read the Wind[/skill] core

This is Hero 2:
[skill]Arcane Echo[/skill] core
[skill]Frustration[/skill] Nightfall

Eilsys · Nov 11, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Today I decided I'd help this guildy, since he was spamming guild chat with the dreaded "CAN NEONE HELP ME PLZ!" over and over, so I did... he needed the Centaur mission done, which I had gotten masters on with henchies. Figured it'd be easy, right?

WRONG. He was new to Guild Wars, and had his heroes set up with basically their default builds (with Healing Breeze and some other useless crap on his Centaur). So we managed to do okay until the end, despite his monk hero being complete rubbish, and we come to the mob of Kournans.

His Zhed gets trashed, since he took out the wards for some inane reason, and his Monk hero's breeze can't heal fast enough (obviously), so the team wipes, and I'm telling him to res his guys, and he's not... so he runs away (without self-healing... XD ), and degens to death.

Afterwards, I asked him if he had Dodge, Lightning Reflexes, Whirling Defense... any defensive stances. He had nothing! The default hero builds aren't very good, and the skills they give new players aren't useful enough. They gave Factions' accounts another Dodge, but not Nightfall.

I agree with the OP... Nightfall isn't exactly fair for new players. There's a lot of things to pick up, and aren't adequatly explained early. And now with heroes, good players can just ignore noobies and finish it themselves... :|

EDIT: I don't have a ranger hero... what then? :|

Paperfly · Nov 11, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

I've come to the conclusion that Nightfall is, indeed, too hard. Not because I can't beat it - I've put over a thousand hours into the other two chapters, I know what I'm doing - but because it's balanced for returning players, not new ones.

Increased catering to the existing player base at the expense of new players -> dwindling player base

Sekkira · Nov 11, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

To the OP: I don't know about you but back in the day we had NES games which you had to go all the way through and if you died, you had to start all over again. I'm sure there are people here that are even older who have the same experience on the C64 and such.

A game is supposed to challange you, it's supposed to be enjoyable through difficulty. If it's neither enjoyable and or difficult, then there's nothing there that should keep you from putting the game down.

Therlun · Nov 11, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

I have to agree with the OP.
For new players it can be very frustrating.

Some Missions and quest are very difficult without the right build.
And then its not only having the right skills, but also the knowledge on how to use them!

Just look at Kamadan.
The newbies standing there for hours trying to sell weapons for 200 gold...
They need experience first.