Curse

Skyy High · Nov 13, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

The main problem is that the average newbie isn't willing to learn. I've tried to teach people and it's like talking to a brick wall. Heck, people won't even listen to you on the forums, nevermind in-game. Take a look at all of the builds posted in the class sections - 90% of them are utter garbage, but people keep posting the same kinds of builds anyway.

Wonder why henchmen are so amazing? Their AI sucks and their skillbars are sub-par, but they follow directions. If newbies could do this, PuGing wouldn't draw all of this hate.

Exactly. In my experience, whenever you try to teach anyone anything, they do not listen. Period. They'll get angry, map out, call you names, or just ignore you. I occassionally have dealings with new players who sincerely want to learn, and it's nice taking them under one's wing for a while...but other than that, it's too frustrating for me.

**Marty Silverblade** · Nov 13, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

The main problem is that the average newbie isn't willing to learn. I've tried to teach people and it's like talking to a brick wall. Heck, people won't even listen to you on the forums, nevermind in-game. Take a look at all of the builds posted in the class sections - 90% of them are utter garbage, but people keep posting the same kinds of builds anyway.

Wonder why henchmen are so amazing? Their AI sucks and their skillbars are sub-par, but they follow directions. If newbies could do this, PuGing wouldn't draw all of this hate.

This is why I don't do this. Whenever I MUST PuG (I'd rather spend 2 hours with 60% dp than PuG), then I never, ever, no matter what, let a W/Mo into my team. No matter what I say, they refuse to believe their god-almighty mending is crap. Even when I tell them to replace it with something like Live Vicariously, then stack it with Vigorous Spirit (I know Healing Signet is better and saves a slot, you gotta take it slow with wammos), they say that they replace it, then when the mission starts I hear that familiar sound. Thats when I leave. Some smart wammos (yes I know theres no such thing, but you get the idea) wait until I'm busy with evis/executioners until they put mending up.

Note: for you lazy people who only read the first line of each paragraph, this post is about how 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9% of wammos are idiots and dont listen to anyone because they don't want to offend the god of mending.

xxSilhouette · Nov 13, 2006, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FexFX

My appologies if I have in any way offended you!

Though I believe you and I are much on the same page, just different paragraphs. Heh!

I can completely understand how helping the thankless can be tiring and agrevating, afterall I do support for a living (no not for ANet or any affiliated company) and rarely do I hear a thank you. However I choose to be pleasanat and professional with every one of my callers not merely because it is my job, but because everyone deserves the chance to prove themselves good or bad. If someone fails to thank you then you would be obliged to never help that person again. If someone thanks you however I would expect that you might consider actually offering assistance the next time you see them! Courtesy should be rewarded and so seldom is!

I could start an entire separate thread on the death of courtesy in modern society and rant for hours about how people have become increasingly rude and reactionary both online and in real life! Sometimes it seems as though everyone is offended by everything, and what's worse, no one trys to do the opposite of offend (which is to compliment or thank) unless they are getting
something out of it!

But that's a Tangent for a different thread!

I am glad to hear that you are no longer a runner as I think running contributes much more to the problem than to the solution...Again teach a man to fish...

Didnt really offend me, Just wanted to make it clear im not a runner anymore lol. I just used that as an example for one of many experiances.

I do think though that people should help others instead of calling them a 'n00b' - But then again its not just people appreciating help, its people willing to give help instead of being rude themselves.

Everyone just needs to be nice

Stalker Haras · Nov 13, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Note: I have not read this whole thread, just bits and pieces so far.

Quote:

I am glad to hear that you are no longer a runner as I think running contributes much more to the problem than to the solution...Again teach a man to fish...

As from what I can see you don't support running, yet contradict yourself with the "teach a man to fish..." quote.

If you're running, you are probably 3/4ths of the time showing someone els how to run, even though you don't know that. So in a way isn't that "teach a man to fish..." as well?

You're teaching someone els how to run so they can make a living off of running, isn't that the same as "if you teach a man to fish..."?

I myself run people all the time, usually I do not charge. When i get bored I will go to Ascalon, Lions Arch, Yaks Bend, or even the Desert, and run people for free. is this still as you say "bad for the community" yet I am helping people for free?

FexFX · Nov 13, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilythia

I found your post to be very refreshing! How nice it is to read something positive instead of the usual moaning or flaming. Personally I think its a great idea. I'm with you!

Glad to hear that you are onboard!
I just led a PUG through a Mission, we failed the bonus (which is all I wanted anyhow) but I thanked them, all for the effort and the company! Everyone was well behaved, and we worked together quite well I thought! If you see Hawaiian Thug online tonight, hook up with him, he was fun to party with!

FexFX · Nov 13, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Exactly. In my experience, whenever you try to teach anyone anything, they do not listen. Period. They'll get angry, map out, call you names, or just ignore you. I occassionally have dealings with new players who sincerely want to learn, and it's nice taking them under one's wing for a while...but other than that, it's too frustrating for me.

Dont let your bad experiences prevent you from having new ones which may be good! Keep trying! You admit there are good ones out there! Find them!

FexFX · Nov 13, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

This is why I don't do this. Whenever I MUST PuG (I'd rather spend 2 hours with 60% dp than PuG), then I never, ever, no matter what, let a W/Mo into my team. No matter what I say, they refuse to believe their god-almighty mending is crap. Even when I tell them to replace it with something like Live Vicariously, then stack it with Vigorous Spirit (I know Healing Signet is better and saves a slot, you gotta take it slow with wammos), they say that they replace it, then when the mission starts I hear that familiar sound. Thats when I leave. Some smart wammos (yes I know theres no such thing, but you get the idea) wait until I'm busy with evis/executioners until they put mending up.

Note: for you lazy people who only read the first line of each paragraph, this post is about how 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9% of wammos are idiots and dont listen to anyone because they don't want to offend the god of mending.

I play a WaMo and I have sworn off of mending after hearing compelling arguments as to exactly WHY it was crap...you have to be prepared to give Mending devotees numbers they will understand!

Sage advice for me that helped me break my dependence was "Let the healers heal, you are there to do damage!"

I was nervous at first, but have never looked back since!

Hi, My name is Jedrak, and I'm a Mendaholic, I've been clean for 10 levels...

<all> Hi Jedrak!

Absolute Destiny · Nov 13, 2006, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Um, assuming "PuG" = person unassociated with Guild/Group....

I'm a PuG for life.

I'm antisocial in-game, and despise having to rely on another human player for anything...though I did buy one run to Droknars.

Now, from that point of view, this is what I've seen:
-This game is not a community-oriented playing environment.

-Players exploit each other, either for runs, or for money, or for items.

-Scammers run rampant, even with the reporting function.

-Laziness and greed are the primary motivators, instead of drive to finish the game, and a sense of adventure when exploring (seems like no one explores just for the hell of it anymore)

You wanna improve the game, give PuG's a better reason to join a Guild than "so you have people to help with this or that mission."

FexFX · Nov 13, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stalker Haras

Note: I have not read this whole thread, just bits and pieces so far.

As from what I can see you don't support running, yet contradict yourself with the "teach a man to fish..." quote.

If you're running, you are probably 3/4ths of the time showing someone els how to run, even though you don't know that. So in a way isn't that "teach a man to fish..." as well?

You're teaching someone els how to run so they can make a living off of running, isn't that the same as "if you teach a man to fish..."?

I myself run people all the time, usually I do not charge. When i get bored I will go to Ascalon, Lions Arch, Yaks Bend, or even the Desert, and run people for free. is this still as you say "bad for the community" yet I am helping people for free?

In a way it is bad, even if you are being community minded in helping them to learn how to run...When you run someone they get to a place in the game they do not yet belong. This leads to n00bs in Droks, a place that should hold no n00bs unless they are perma-n00bs beyond hope! Instead you might just have some poor n00b who wants pretty armor for his WaMO...in an area they are 5 levels and 10 missions too inexperienced for...The result is that Droks is no longer a place for the elite, but a place for anyont with a runner's fee.

Also it spoils the game for that poor n00b because they have in essence cheated to get to a place they never could have so soon on their own.

While not horrible, its still not great. I 've seen many argue over whether or not its cheating, and I have to kind of say that it feels like it is...

However, I am not going to say you are bad or evil for wanting to run, as that's jsut silly, everyone can play the game the way they like, I am merely trying to get people to play with people a bit more and not hide behind bots because they might get a bad n00b when PUGing.

Also as the OP said, it's something to do when Running and Farming have been nerfed or lose their shine!

FexFX · Nov 13, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

Um, assuming "PuG" = person unassociated with Guild/Group....

I'm a PuG for life.

I'm antisocial in-game, and despise having to rely on another human player for anything...though I did buy one run to Droknars.

Now, from that point of view, this is what I've seen:
-This game is not a community-oriented playing environment.

-Players exploit each other, either for runs, or for money, or for items.

-Scammers run rampant, even with the reporting function.

-Laziness and greed are the primary motivators, instead of drive to finish the game, and a sense of adventure when exploring (seems like no one explores just for the hell of it anymore)

You wanna improve the game, give PuG's a better reason to join a Guild than "so you have people to help with this or that mission."

Perhaps the problem is that such reasons are not being stated. I joined a guild to have a sense of community, and I got it. I joined a guild to have a group of players with whom to associate myself that I could rely on to not be Ragers or Scammers or Leeches or AFKers or Griefers...Someone who would have a voice of experience and be able to assist me when I got lost.

In spite of this I am always looking for PUGs because I figure out of a purported 2,000,000 players, my little guild of 500 is nothing! Its a cozy little group within a much much larger world!

And I explore because I dont want to miss anything, I want to see every inch...and I am sometimes surprised when I remember to look up in an area I've been through 20 times only to find that there are things I had never noticed before! Does that count as "for the heck of it"?

Stalker Haras · Nov 13, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FexFX

In a way it is bad, even if you are being community minded in helping them to learn how to run...When you run someone they get to a place in the game they do not yet belong. This leads to n00bs in Droks, a place that should hold no n00bs unless they are perma-n00bs beyond hope! Instead you might just have some poor n00b who wants pretty armor for his WaMO...in an area they are 5 levels and 10 missions too inexperienced for...The result is that Droks is no longer a place for the elite, but a place for anyone with a runner's fee.

Also it spoils the game for that poor n00b because they have in essence cheated to get to a place they never could have so soon on their own.

While not horrible, its still not great. I've seen many argue over whether or not its cheating, and I have to kind of say that it feels like it is...

However, I am not going to say you are bad or evil for wanting to run, as that's just silly, everyone can play the game the way they like, I am merely trying to get people to play with people a bit more and not hide behind bots because they might get a bad n00b when PUGing.

Also as the OP said, it's something to do when Running and Farming have been nerfed or lose their shine!

Not every "noob" you see is actually new to the game. I myself get tired of playing all my characters through the game over and over. You would too if you had 5+ accounts filled with characters.

A lot of other people do the same because they have indeed beat the game, and it's done and over with, and don't see it necessary to do it all over again just because it's basically a waste of their time.

I've never met anyone nor thought that Droknars was the "Elite" place in the game. Even back when I was "noob" and got my "wammo" there for the first time. To me it was the place where you got the "best" armor.

I do understand what you mean though, but like I said, not every person being ran is a "noob" that's been playing for the first time.

Also, if it is possible, try and answer as many posts as you can in 1 reply, even if it is long, so you don't get yelled at for "double posting".

.

shadowmist · Nov 13, 2006, 08:55 AM // 08:55

I operate under the assumption 90% of the people I'll meet will do something stupid in the short time I'll know them. Thus, I do not hold much hope for a community as expansive as Guild Wars to improve itself simply by helping new players. That said, this idea is a wonderful one. There's mentor systems in some games, and they work fairly well. Granted, most of those systems give the mentors some stuff when their students get to a certain point, but some mentors do it for fun. If other games can do it, so can Guild Wars! Though I myself had no problems playing GW my first time through (I play too many games to have any of those types of problems), I know some people that need someone to explain things. They won't figure it out themselves, but once someone tells them, they pick it up fairly fast. Thus, I think this is a good idea. Dunno if any GW players (not counting guildies... guildies ftw!) will do it without an incentive though, considering GW is a free game and whatnot...

*Darcy* · Nov 13, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

I have always seen lvl20s in lower level areas offering to help with quests and missions for free. Personally, I have helped with quests and information numerous times.

I also regularly take mid-level (req 3-6) weapons to beginner areas and give them away. That occasional "wow" with the thank you can make up for a lousy day with your own character. (For all chapters, bows are the most wanted.)

I'll also give away collector drops required for armor or weapons. None of this requires more than my time, of which I have plenty, so costs me nothing. And what have I lost over the last 8 months? Possibly a few thousand in merchant sales. And, hopefully, the players I've helped (and those whom other players have helped) go on with a more generous attitude of their own.

But OP, you are preaching to the choir. A person who agrees is usually already doing the things you listed. A person who disagrees will never do them, feeling that "everyone should help themselves."

FexFX · Nov 13, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stalker Haras

Not every "noob" you see is actually new to the game. I myself get tired of playing all my characters through the game over and over. You would too if you had 5+ accounts filled with characters.

A lot of other people do the same because they have indeed beat the game, and it's done and over with, and don't see it necessary to do it all over again just because it's basically a waste of their time.

I've never met anyone nor thought that Droknars was the "Elite" place in the game. Even back when I was "noob" and got my "wammo" there for the first time. To me it was the place where you got the "best" armor.

I do understand what you mean though, but like I said, not every person being ran is a "noob" that's been playing for the first time.

Also, if it is possible, try and answer as many posts as you can in 1 reply, even if it is long, so you don't get yelled at for "double posting".

.

Fair enough, but then again you would more likely be the exception than the rule I would assume...Afterall there are enough full time runners that they can't all be ferrying people on their 5th (or more) character...

Also, I am sure with that many character that you have friends/guildmates who would be willing to ferry you to Droks since you have been playing for so long...it should not require that there be people that choose to make their living off of running...

But I digress, this is a tangent, and I never meant this to end up as a debate over running...plus the general concensus is that with the New AI running has been mostly nerfed yes?

As to the double posting...I understand what you mean, but I am not actually double posting, I am merely giving each person individual answers...doing so also benefits this thread as it helps to keep it alive without meaningless posts that contribute nothing mroe than *bump* to the thread.

FexFX · Nov 13, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowmist

I operate under the assumption 90% of the people I'll meet will do something stupid in the short time I'll know them. Thus, I do not hold much hope for a community as expansive as Guild Wars to improve itself simply by helping new players. That said, this idea is a wonderful one. There's mentor systems in some games, and they work fairly well. Granted, most of those systems give the mentors some stuff when their students get to a certain point, but some mentors do it for fun. If other games can do it, so can Guild Wars! Though I myself had no problems playing GW my first time through (I play too many games to have any of those types of problems), I know some people that need someone to explain things. They won't figure it out themselves, but once someone tells them, they pick it up fairly fast. Thus, I think this is a good idea. Dunno if any GW players (not counting guildies... guildies ftw!) will do it without an incentive though, considering GW is a free game and whatnot...

It would be my foolish and naieve hope that improving the community would be the only reward people would need. That having less n00bs and more rewarding PUGs would make the entire experience more rewarding. Also, again, my suggestion was ment as something for people who have become bored/bitter about Running and Farming because of the recent AI changes, or because they have the "been there done that" blahs...

As to your base assumption that 90% of people are essentially stupid and annoying...well as I mentioned earlier I do support for a living, so I am heartily inclined to agree with you...but I've found that there are two distinct ways to handle that little fact, bothin the support world and online...Either you let it get to you, and it turns you into an angry, bitter sociopath who would rather be alone than tollerate fools...or you laugh it off and look forward to the 10% that isn't stupid...Besides most of what people call "stupid" is usually more of a case of "just didn't know". Dont get the impression that I am an unshakable optimist, or that I think all people are inherently good or any sort of nonsense like that...

I just think everyone deserves a chance and that shunning everyone because of the bad experiences that other has given you does a disservice to those you have yet to meet as well as yourself. It also means that the people who gave you grief have won...They've beaten you into submission and your reaction is "One burned twice shy."

FexFX · Nov 13, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

I have always seen lvl20s in lower level areas offering to help with quests and missions for free. Personally, I have helped with quests and information numerous times.

I also regularly take mid-level (req 3-6) weapons to beginner areas and give them away. That occasional "wow" with the thank you can make up for a lousy day with your own character. (For all chapters, bows are the most wanted.)

I'll also give away collector drops required for armor or weapons. None of this requires more than my time, of which I have plenty, so costs me nothing. And what have I lost over the last 8 months? Possibly a few thousand in merchant sales. And, hopefully, the players I've helped (and those whom other players have helped) go on with a more generous attitude of their own.

But OP, you are preaching to the choir. A person who agrees is usually already doing the things you listed. A person who disagrees will never do them, feeling that "everyone should help themselves."

Thank you for your support! Players like you are not extinct yet and it makes me glad to know that!

I understand that those who already feel as I do already do the things I am choosing to champion in this thread, however my hope is to motivate some of those who find themselves becomming estranged due to a constellation of factors...players who would not only prove an asset in this capacity, but who would themselves benefit by what may appear to them to be a new way of viewing the community, and an active way to work towards the betterment of the community as a whole.

The persons I am trying to motivate are those in other threads who spend hours writing posts about how the thrill is gone, how there are no more PUGs, how everything was better once upon a time, how now that farming has been nerfed there is nothing left for them...

I am offering them a constructive alternative!

Yesterday I took a group through a mission and during the mission I snagged a Silver dye and a Brown dye as well as a few Purples whose modifiers proved worthwhile once removed...so there are monetary rewards as well as the reward of improving the overall experience of Guild Wars for yourself and for others!

My creedo: Be the player that you would say "...is an excellent player!"

Eviance · Nov 13, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

FexFX -_- XoO -_- Well I am glad to know that they do act more like a community than I thought. *has faced them several times in HA* They always make it nice and challenging for us. Also hun learn to edit and add as Stalker said, otherwise someone might come along and yell at you for spamming your own thread.
------------------------------------------

*pokes Stalker* Sparkler La Boom still has her sezzy Aeromancer armor ^_^ That was a long fun night of running

------------------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

Um, assuming "PuG" = person unassociated with Guild/Group....

I'm a PuG for life.

I'm antisocial in-game, and despise having to rely on another human player for anything...though I did buy one run to Droknars.

Now, from that point of view, this is what I've seen:
-This game is not a community-oriented playing environment.

-Players exploit each other, either for runs, or for money, or for items.

-Scammers run rampant, even with the reporting function.

-Laziness and greed are the primary motivators, instead of drive to finish the game, and a sense of adventure when exploring (seems like no one explores just for the hell of it anymore)

You wanna improve the game, give PuG's a better reason to join a Guild than "so you have people to help with this or that mission."

It's hard to find a guild that is worthy of not just competent players but selfless ones as well. We try to run our guild that way.... Filtering through not just bad players but moochers makes it really hard - many guilds don't even bother. It is however worth it to find one and stick with it - not everyone is out for greed - and yet not everyone is worth typing a simple hello to -_-

Our guild has managed pretty successfully to surround itself with likeminded people who help each other from anything ingame to just listening if they need to rant about life in general. I can say with certainty that our guild is not the only one out there like that - that the people within our guild are not the only ones. It just takes patience to weed out the good from the bad and ditch the ugly. Some can be taught, others just don't care, but each of the ones that do care are worth the time and effort.

Str0b0 · Nov 13, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

I resent the implication in the OP that hero's are to blame for this. I'm a die hard fan of the hero system. I don't care what game you play PUGs are always a pain. It's a crap shoot as to whether you will even get through the part you are trying to get through with pugs.

It would be nice if everyone was skilled enough to make PUGs worthwhile, but sadly this is not the case. Now I had no one to hold my hand and tell me how to use a build or what skills to take on a mission. I don't think that molly coddling newbies through the game is necessarily going to create better players only more dependent players. There is a wealth of information right here on this board on tactics, builds, and techniques. There are even discussions of the metagame to be found here and this is just one of many many sites on the web devoted to Guild Wars.

My point is that you can't blame Heros for the lack of groups. The only thing that happened here is that Anet finally gave us an alternative to bad henchman AI and, sometimes, even worse player intelligence. The root cause of the problem is a lack of knowledge amongst the player base. If every newbie did what many of us did, that is read the fansites, the wikis, and the Guild Wars homepage, and try to learn on their own, at least enough to not make them a liability in game, then maybe PUGs would be more attractive.

It's sad to say though that many people do not want to put forth that extra effort. They would rather be coddled through or have instant gratification. I for one refuse to molly coddle newbies just for the sake of advancing them. If they come to me and say,"Hey I'm having trouble with this mission can you teach me a better build and help me do it?" I will happily help them out, but the fact of the matter is they don't do that. They want a run or they want an easy way out and I am not going to provide that for them. Until the newbies start taking some responsibility for their own gameplay experience then I will continue to use Heros and henchmen.

FexFX · Nov 13, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I resent the implication in the OP that hero's are to blame for this. I'm a die hard fan of the hero system. I don't care what game you play PUGs are always a pain. It's a crap shoot as to whether you will even get through the part you are trying to get through with pugs.

Please re-read the OP, no where in the OP do I even mention Heroes. Nor do I imply that Heroes are to blame. They may in a way have contributed to am already growing problem, but I for one love the Hero system, and think its a wonderful adition to the GW experience!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

It would be nice if everyone was skilled enough to make PUGs worthwhile, but sadly this is not the case. Now I had no one to hold my hand and tell me how to use a build or what skills to take on a mission. I don't think that molly coddling newbies through the game is necessarily going to create better players only more dependent players. There is a wealth of information right here on this board on tactics, builds, and techniques. There are even discussions of the metagame to be found here and this is just one of many many sites on the web devoted to Guild Wars.

It has become a common misconception in this thread to assume that I am advocating hand holding and as you put it molly-coddling n00bs, when in fact I am not. I am suggesting that rather than downing PUGs and complaining that they are all sub-par players and not worth your time, that you invest some time in changing that. Help a n00b out, give them a tip or two, let them benefit from your experience...no one says you should have to babysit them...just help 'em out a bit!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

It's sad to say though that many people do not want to put forth that extra effort. They would rather be coddled through or have instant gratification. I for one refuse to molly coddle newbies just for the sake of advancing them. If they come to me and say,"Hey I'm having trouble with this mission can you teach me a better build and help me do it?" I will happily help them out, but the fact of the matter is they don't do that. They want a run or they want an easy way out and I am not going to provide that for them. Until the newbies start taking some responsibility for their own gameplay experience then I will continue to use Heros and henchmen.

And by your own admission you are saying that you are willing to share your wisdom and assist the n00b who seriously wants to become a vet! I dont think we are at odds here, I think you misread or read into my OP that I hate Heroes or blame them for the problems within the commuinty!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eviance

Also hun learn to edit and add as Stalker said, otherwise someone might come along and yell at you for spamming your own thread.

This better?

I'll admit I was spamming my own thread just a little (heh) but my intentions were good, I just wanted everyone to get a decent reply and also wanted this thread to stay alive long enough to draw some attention and responses.

Healthy debate can take some legwork to encourage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eviance

It's hard to find a guild that is worthy of not just competent players but selfless ones as well. We try to run our guild that way.... Filtering through not just bad players but moochers makes it really hard - many guilds don't even bother. It is however worth it to find one and stick with it - not everyone is out for greed - and yet not everyone is worth typing a simple hello to -_-

Our guild has managed pretty successfully to surround itself with likeminded people who help each other from anything ingame to just listening if they need to rant about life in general. I can say with certainty that our guild is not the only one out there like that - that the people within our guild are not the only ones. It just takes patience to weed out the good from the bad and ditch the ugly. Some can be taught, others just don't care, but each of the ones that do care are worth the time and effort..

Sounds like your guild is pretty idyllic! Great! We need more like it!

My own guild, XoO has a great group of people within it, and at times the Alliance and Guild chats are so full of chatter that I have to turn them off if I want to talk to my team in a mission!

This is a great thing because it makes me feel like GW is FAR from empty even when my zone is less than packed!

XoO is always looking for great players, and our only real desire/requirement is that the player be mature and serious about playing GW.

Str0b0 · Nov 13, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FexFX

And one things I have seen is a growing concern that Heroes are killing the game, and that there are no longer any people looking for PUGs...and Tied to this are an increasing number of players complaining that without farming and running (which some claim is nerfed) they have grown bored...

In my defense the mere inclusion of that line of thought constitutes an implicationthat Heros are indeed responsible for the lack of PUG's. That aside, no we aren't at odds. I simly advocate more self tutelage as opposed to people engaging in a mass teaching campaign that will leave many players dependent upon teachers and vets for help in every little thing. I've seen it happen in guilds. I call it Mentor Paralysis. What happens is you get someone who takes a newbie under their wing and shows them the ropes, teaches them about builds and counters and the basic ins and outs of the game. They become competent players, yet they will constantly bug their mentor for help in even the smallest task. It gets to the point where they will stop advancing in the game if they cannot get their mentor's help. Self taught is self confident and self confidence goes a long way towards making a better person both in game and out.