Curse

Gorebrex · Nov 11, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

No rubberbanding, and I really doubt any lag was happening(that you get when alot of people are on a server), as these pics were take at 2:45am EST on an American server. Most of the chase(over 90% of it) I was about 1-1/2 aggro circles away, but couldnt break it. Then, when I went back, another started after me when I was about halfway away on radar(~same as spirit range). Pics are of same mob(not one in previous sentence), other NPC is Tolis.

WasAGuest · Nov 11, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Had a really bad occurance yesterday evening. Went back to Cantha to get the missing masters I needed for VSquare. The usual "flee" basd AI was there, so most of the fight was me hitting the AI from behind as they ran around chasing my monks. Wasn't hard, just slow moving and pretty dull. In the third "stop point" I ended up chasing the upper spawn away, which fled (I did not follow) towards where I just came from. The lower spawn point fled forward into the mission but couldn't get past the blocked gate there, so they stood there doing nothing. The middle spawn was the only one that would fight, at least till I hit them.
After clearing out the middle and lower spawns the gates hadn't opened. I had forgotten about the upper spawn. I went looking for them, found a few scattered here and there around the second "stop point", with the loss of time though, I had auto-lost the masters I was needing on that character, so I logged out.

Anyway, unless the second team was all humans, which it wasn't; had watched and blocked the fleeing upper group, there was no way we could have gotten masters, since they would spawn, run towards the stairs, stand there for a second or two, then when anyone or any hero/henchie got too close, they would take off running. Not one or two, but all of them. Not very aggressive for a mutant creature full of hate and spite towards the living... hehe

Lord Xavius · Nov 11, 2006, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

I havent seen enemies move faster than normal unless I'm having lag or server issues. And you dont have to see rubber banding for it to be server synching problems. I'm not saying that I'm 100% correct, but looking at it logically it looks more like synching issues in that video rather than A.I. problems especially since I've experienced a similar problem.

There's a problem with the synching of the location of the gnashers that are chasing you and the location of where they actually are. So the gnashers are always on your tail no matter how far and fast you run.

This is most definitely not a video syncing / lag problem. I can just about recreate the scenario i posted just about anywhere in the game involving a group of casters with melee support. However I've found that the enemies have a tendency to follow if they have hexed you with something such as life siphon or rust just as a couple of examples. I can only break aggro if i can remove the hex and get far enough out of range when they stop to cast again.

Matix411 · Nov 11, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

We're not discussing "realism" here, we were talking about the fact that sometimes enemies will "autolock" on you and you can't escape them no matter how far or fast you run.

Happened to me in the Gate of Pain mission.
Every time I tried to pull a small group, or one or two of those Stryders, and accidentally pulled a larger group, or, if I was trying to pull the Emissaries instead for example, either way, and failed to do so properly, I had a group of 4-5 enemies chasing me down all the way back to the beginning of the map.
Part of me wants to say that's an AI problem and part of me wants to say it's the other issue you've all been talking about.
But when this group chases me down, then retreats a little (while I'm still running away) and then continues to follow again, on a repetative basis, I really think it's an AI issue. Maybe if they followed and didn't back off at all, but they attempt to back off and then continue to follow. So, it seems like both the "autolock" issue or just screwed up AI.
I still beat the mission, so it's not a HUGE hindrance in my playing, either way it needs to be changed.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 11, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Well there are a couple different issues going on since Nightfall:

1. Aggro circles seem to cover the entire map at times. Enemies will aggro to you no matter where they are.

2. Lag/client/server synching issues. Enemies will always be at your position no matter how far or fast you are on the map. Sometimes it will appear that there are no enemies around you and you're still taking damage.

Combine those two issues and you can have enemies that aggro to you out of nowhere and you just can't get rid of them no matter where you run or how fast. And sometimes if you run away from your henchies that are fighting the enemies, you'll rubberband back to the group.

.
.

lunksunkunk · Nov 12, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Man i wish i had gamecam for every moment those mobs that I ran 3 circles away from can still aggro me the moment i take a step back. Its not even a rarely occuring issue anymore, is becoming a trend among almost all types of monster, melee, caster, whatever. No, i dont rubberband, they can just see me from that far away, cuz i stop frequently to make sure im not stuck somewhere but the server isnt in sync. W/e that fustrates me, but i wish i could start a GW showcase of all the wonderful AI occurences so far. They funniest one wins a cookie.

G-Humps · Nov 12, 2006, 03:24 AM // 03:24

yeah running is super hard now

Myria · Nov 12, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunksunkunk

Man i wish i had gamecam for every moment those mobs that I ran 3 circles away from can still aggro me the moment i take a step back. Its not even a rarely occuring issue anymore, is becoming a trend among almost all types of monster, melee, caster, whatever.

I've been seeing this a lot lately. I retreat from a near wipe and have the monsters follow me for miles. Then when they do stop and go back, as soon as I'm within radar range they start chasing me. I used to see this occasionally, but now it's pretty much every time I have to retreat. It's making retreating a pointless exercise as you can't get within radar range of your fallen comrades, let alone close enough to rebirth them.

lunksunkunk · Nov 12, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myria

I've been seeing this a lot lately. I retreat from a near wipe and have the monsters follow me for miles. Then when they do stop and go back, as soon as I'm within radar range they start chasing me. I used to see this occasionally, but now it's pretty much every time I have to retreat. It's making retreating a pointless exercise as you can't get within radar range of your fallen comrades, let alone close enough to rebirth them.

lol, running is "bad" apparently. I cant even chestrun nowadays without watching my back for some mobs(and i stress the plural "s") that i aggro-ed almost 30 seconds ago. But then again, chestrunning is "bad" also.

Toll Booth Willie · Nov 12, 2006, 04:32 AM // 04:32

I know they are trying to make the ai more realistic and the anti-aoe change that was long ago was acceptable. This new change in AI is just annoying. This is a game that most play for fun and for me this change took a lot of the fun out. Farming is a pain (all i farm for is gold to buy skills usually), controlling agro is annoying, the avicira who chase me from right outside drok all the way to the azzure near rankor is dumb (i used sprint/charge constant).

If i want realism i'll go PvP. When I play pve i want to earn exp, get gold, or complete missions, all of which are irritating now. I've played many mmo's over the past 5 years and the new ai is probably the worst I have seen. If the AI was like this when I started 16 months ago I probably would have never bought the expansions and would have quit long ago.

Did Anet hire some devs from SWG?

Its a shame this crappy system came out at the same time as Nightfall, for me it definetly took away from what could have been a GREAT expansion.

Gaile Gray · Nov 12, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

I have sent a note to check with the designers about the issues that you've reported. I don't have a response yet (it is the weekend now, after all) but I've asked for reassurance that all changes are intended or, if not, for an estimated timeline of when those things that are not functioning properly might be back on track.

I know we made changes to the AI, and there was a period from October 25 to the 31 when the AI was not functioning as planned. Some of the things that people mention have not changed since Prophecies. But obviously some things have.

We'll do a check on the matter and give you an update as soon as one is possible.

WasAGuest · Nov 12, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Thanks Gaile; could you also be sure to pass along the common opinion that the current state of the game is no longer fun, challenging or slightly enjoyable?

As we have seen, many of the problems are not effecting everyone. In this, those that are not having problems are un-informed and inexperienced (thus not on the same page) as those with the problems. This should be taken into consideration and passed along as well; therefore those with problems and issues towards the game state should be addressed first and foremost.

Smart business addresses problems and complaints... something ANet has done fairly well in the past. Please do not allow the devs to blow off the players with complaints simply because some people are not having addressed issues.

Thanks in advance for trying to help make the game fun and challenging again.

Edit: Not completely related to the AI issues I'm having; but here's yet another thread of "bored" players thanks to the current changes: here

Even many that are not having problems with the AI, like myself, are not enoying the game anymore due to rescent changes. Perhaps Anets devs would care to respond to such changes and keep players happy, vs the current path?

Blackhawk · Nov 12, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Well I took several screenshots of this but here's what the problem is Gaile, as you can see I didn't move during the little experiment, but as soon as I tried to get close to Rebirth and the mobs were on the edge of the map, it appears to me that the whole minimap is now a mobs aggro circle and moving back and forward slightly caused them to retreat/come back.

Needs to be fixed as it's ridiculous as if this is an "intended change" where you cant even get close enough to res, it really sucks, and is even worse in the Realm Of Torment areas.

lunksunkunk · Nov 12, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

If u would like a real good example of the aggro-system we have nowadays. Go to Ice Floe outside Marhan's Grotto in Tyria. Step by step:

1. Make sure u have a Mo/W or Mo/R w/ Spellbreaker. Many builds out there.
2. Cast all the needed enchantments before aggro-ing anything.
3. Run through the Mursaat mobs and see what happens.

Those mursaat will chase you for the ENTIRE map. Not just a few aggro-circles, not just a radar, the WHOLE map. After chestrunning there for more than enuf times that i can't count. At the end of every run, I have at least 8-10 mursaat chasing me non-stop even if i run them outta my radar completely. All i have to do is wait 10 seconds and they'll be back in aggro-range again leaving not enuf time for some skills to recharge since i cant spam SB. Honesltly, what was the point of the aggro-circle then? What was the point of the radar? What was the point of even running skills, if running is apparently a no-no now?

WasAGuest · Nov 12, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunksunkunk

If u would like a real good example of the aggro-system we have nowadays. Go to Ice Floe outside Marhan's Grotto in Tyria. Step by step:

1. Make sure u have a Mo/W or Mo/R w/ Spellbreaker. Many builds out there.
2. Cast all the needed enchantments before aggro-ing anything.
3. Run through the Mursaat mobs and see what happens.

Those mursaat will chase you for the ENTIRE map. Not just a few aggro-circles, not just a radar, the WHOLE map.

This is pretty funny to see. Just tried it... they indeed create a congo line. Did you get some from out of aggro range and off compass as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunksunkunk

Honesltly, what was the point of the aggro-circle then? What was the point of the radar? What was the point of even running skills, if running is apparently a no-no now?

/sarcasm - Apprently to catch up with the "chicken little" running AI, or "flee-bots".

Matix411 · Nov 13, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I have sent a note to check with the designers about the issues that you've reported. I don't have a response yet (it is the weekend now, after all) but I've asked for reassurance that all changes are intended or, if not, for an estimated timeline of when those things that are not functioning properly might be back on track.

I know we made changes to the AI, and there was a period from October 25 to the 31 when the AI was not functioning as planned. Some of the things that people mention have not changed since Prophecies. But obviously some things have.

We'll do a check on the matter and give you an update as soon as one is possible.

Thank you, Gaile.

Pkest · Nov 13, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

just my .02 offering to this issue.

It is my understanding that monsters use to follow you forever back when you could lure char all the way back to the res shrine in pre-searing. When they added the ascalon title in they supposedly made it so monsters would gain experience again so you could actually get the title.

Is it possible that the 'new' ai issue of perpetual chasing is really old code that snuck back into the game as part of this title change?

lunksunkunk · Nov 13, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

This is pretty funny to see. Just tried it... they indeed create a congo line. Did you get some from out of aggro range and off compass as well?

/sarcasm - Apprently to catch up with the "chicken little" running AI, or "flee-bots".

I ran them outta the radar/compass completely, gave em 10 seconds, and before u know it, they're casting spectral agony on me again. U cant get rid of em. Its in almost every single map now, monsters might have changed but the same catch me if you can AI is still there.

garethporlest18 · Nov 13, 2006, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Well couldn't rez Koss and Dunkoro as I ran and everytime I came back they would aggro on me right away again. Not to mention them doing 29-50 damage to me when I have 40 armor. BUT OH! I forgot it doesn't count as 40 until you are level 20. Duh.

Really really really annoying. Can't adapt when you have no skills to, because OH! They have them all in the endgame!!!!!! Hahaha damn forgot about that. Well not all of them but a good chunk of them, that should be in Kamadan. (Flail anyone?)

arcanemacabre · Nov 13, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Well couldn't rez Koss and Dunkoro as I ran and everytime I came back they would aggro on me right away again.

See, this is what I don't get. This is nothing new! I've had this happen quite a few times back when Factions came out. Just random mobs tend to spot you even off the radar, especially if you already encountered them, and half your party died. The second you go and try to res them, the mobs start running full speed from off the radar straight at you. They know exactly where you are and what you're doing, sometimes. This has happened to me a few times in Kaineng, and once in SF.

I've had lots of weird quriks with the AI long before this update. We can't write all this off as screw-ups from the recent update. No doubt, they still need to be fixed.

The rubberbanding issue has gotten a lot worse, I've noticed. Not just with the NF release, but about 2 weeks before that. Just seems to get worse and worse. I've had times where I will run half a zone before I realize there's no enemies, and my heroes are stuck 3-4 radars away. I then sometimes have to run all the way back, and just when I get within range, I bounce back in the middle of my heroes, like I never left. Very odd.