Curse

generik · Nov 18, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I'm not really trying to justify anything. Yes, the forced grind sucks, but the point is that it really isn't that much.

Hey, don't look at me. I still prefer Factions over the other two. Nightfall just lacks...soul.

Yes, I like the same campaign in the series where mandatory %anything% started, and locked gates begin.

Don't like runners? Why yes, then you just gotta love forced grind as well. It is all restriction, in varying degrees from ANET.

Rera · Nov 18, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

There's no such thing as grind in Guild Wars.

Farming isn't grind? Exactly what is it then? Running out into ****ing Marga Coast again and again to farm stupid little frenzybugs for ****-worthless 'sunspear points' is somehow fun?

And what about Friend of the Luxons? Remember that? You couldn't even *get* 10,000 Luxon Faction through normal quests.

Bringing up something worse doesn't prove a point. If you saw someone shot to death, would you claim it wasn't murder, based on the fact that he wasn't mutilated and dismembered? Just because some other game has worse grind doesn't mean GW doesn't have grind.

Actually, you know what? Forget it. Why do I even bother?

Chicken Ftw · Nov 18, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Farming isn't grind? Exactly what is it then? Running out into ****ing Marga Coast again and again to farm stupid little frenzybugs for ****-worthless 'sunspear points' is somehow fun?

And what about Friend of the Luxons? Remember that? You couldn't even *get* 10,000 Luxon Faction through normal quests.

Bringing up something worse doesn't prove a point. If you saw someone shot to death, would you claim it wasn't murder, based on the fact that he wasn't mutilated and dismembered? Just because some other game has worse grind doesn't mean GW doesn't have grind.

Actually, you know what? Forget it. Why do I even bother?

Thing is, you don't really have to farm them. Just play, quest, kill things on the way. Y'know, play the game as it was intended. You get the points easily with bonuses from shrines and quest rewards. Playing normally doesn't equal grind. :s

xXa1 · Nov 18, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Thing is, you don't really have to farm them. Just play, quest, kill things on the way. Y'know, play the game as it was intended. You get the points easily with bonuses from shrines and quest rewards. Playing normally doesn't equal grind. :s

unfortunately, if you take a Tyrian or Canthan into Elona, you arrive at Yohlon Haven without enough Sunspear Points to do the next Primary Quest which is freeing Koss.

then there the fact that your Heroes - Tahilkora, Dunkaro, Melonni, Jin/Sousuke, Olias and/or the assassin will be several levels short of 20.

therefore what usually happens is that, for every character you have, you need to farm Arkjok Ward repeatedly with all the blessings and xp scrolls to earn both XP for your heroes and reach the required Sunspear Points.

admittedly im used to farming, but this is not exactly rewarding farming ... and having to repeatedly do it across several characters is a chore, not a choice.

generik · Nov 18, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXa1

unfortunately, if you take a Tyrian or Canthan into Elona, you arrive at Yohlon Haven without enough Sunspear Points to do the next Primary Quest which is freeing Koss.

then there the fact that your Heroes - Tahilkora, Dunkaro, Melonni, Jin/Sousuke, Olias and/or the assassin will be several levels short of 20.

therefore what usually happens is that, for every character you have, you need to farm Arkjok Ward repeatedly with all the blessings and xp scrolls to earn both XP for your heroes and reach the required Sunspear Points.

admittedly im used to farming, but this is not exactly rewarding farming ... and having to repeatedly do it across several characters is a chore, not a choice.

Perhaps you can propose a better solution to this problem?

bebe · Nov 18, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mai

Because it doesn't have armor right? Not that gameplay really matters.

Anyways back on point, Nightfall is a big improvement to Factions in my opinion. People complain at the first sight of a little "grind". (I won't even call it that compared to FFXI, WoW and EQ2) So far quests are "grind", Factions are "grind", PvP is "grind" and missions are "grind." So tell me what isn't grind?

Armor does have a big part of why I don't like NF.
But it's also the last part(ish) of NF thats just so hard. T-T
(To me anyways.. might be pretty simple/easy to others) x:

death fuzzy · Nov 18, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34

its easy to get =s.
it took my dervish longer since it was NF born,
but my necro..
went to kamadan, got to the mission area in 10 minutes, complete the mission in another 10-20.
start farming points, which should only take ~2 hours.

of course, its going to be so much harder on my monk >.>

Mai · Nov 18, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Temptress

Armor does have a big part of why I don't like NF.
But it's also the last part(ish) of NF thats just so hard. T-T
(To me anyways.. might be pretty simple/easy to others) x:

It's difficult just have to be really good at pulls and keeping your eye on the radar for patrols. I still find Abaddon mish more annoying than difficult with the condition spamming and overall cheesy-ness of the mission.

Quote:

Originally Posted by death fuzzy

its easy to get =s.
it took my dervish longer since it was NF born,
but my necro..
went to kamadan, got to the mission area in 10 minutes, complete the mission in another 10-20.
start farming points, which should only take ~2 hours.

of course, its going to be so much harder on my monk >.>

Monk is pretty easy, as I'm doing the NF campaign on my monk main. For sunspear points just grab Olias from Tyria and give him a MM build. Then just watch as the points start rolling in

ume kurosaki · Nov 18, 2006, 08:59 AM // 08:59

I survived getting factions in Factions. I survived farming a lot of stuff. I'm sure I can survive grinding sunspear points.

It's not tough at all, I've devised a nice route that nets me ~1000 in about half a hour. Turai's, then Jahai. Rinse and repeat. Also. This is pretty dang important.

Take someone else with you =P Makes the "grind" feeling goes away.

twicky_kid · Nov 18, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

I don't have NF myself. I have seen some of the missions and played the preview event.

The only advantage I can see is skills, 2 new professions, and heros.

All the other advantages of NF I can get without buying the game. For me it makes no since to buy the pve content. I'll just wait and buy the pvp pack when it comes out.

coldplay · Nov 18, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

to me, the re-play value of NF is 0, on the other hand , replay value is GWP is very much.

garethporlest18 · Nov 18, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Willpower is what makes me replay NF, with a tiny 5% bit of fun. Because you do (yes do, no ifs ands or buts) grind Sunspear points. By the time you need to get to general you'll have 1000 following the quests and that's playing the game the way it's suppose to be played . Killing things in an area with no advancement in the game quest wise is farming or grinding. Which is supposedly how this game is suppose to be played. Anet is one sided, they dont want you to farm/grind to make money but they want you to farm/grind to get farther? Eh?

Clord · Nov 18, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Here is enough quests but you need do bit searching to find them. Not all quests are in same place to get next title and sometimes more quests appear to old areas and suddenly you find here is enough quests to advance next level. This is Guild Wars where you don't run from monsters but fight with them. Monster groups mostly are easy before you begin to explore Realm of Torment.

EPO Bot · Nov 18, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

I just love to kill every single margonite.
Every time i add two more points to my lightbringer rank, i know i'm building a better future. And since you can kill trillions of the purple losers in the end game...

gobla · Nov 18, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

You guys are all trying to justify forced grind, rather than facing the fact that it was simply poor game design.

Where else in GW have you actually been forced to grind a title just to progress in the game? Until now, grinding was limited to people who wanted cash, now it's a required part of the game.

I only took one character through NF. Between Sunspear Points and Lightbringer Points, I can't justify doing it more than once.

Now imagine NF without promotion points,

For me, the promotion point system has brought me to various places. Given me the much needed reason to actually go out in zones and kill stuff, see stuff and do random quests. In factions I found this to be really lacking, why do those quests if you can just rush on in the campaign?

shadowmist · Nov 18, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43

I've had no problem getting the required points when I reached the points where I was required to have a certain amount. Between just questing and going through the story, I've only had to stop once to farm 43 points to get enough points. Which took all of two minutes...

dwc89 · Nov 18, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

I'm finding the replay for my older chars tough, sunspear points is a drag. The biggest drag is lvling heroes though, as some are needed for progression in game. What was Anet thinking giving a lvl 20 char from proph or factions such low lvl heroes - a slow down on top of sunspear points?

Fortuantely I had some quests left over from factions - the 3k xp ones , which have helped in lvling some heroes for some chars.

A guildie and I went on a highend run with our heroes the other day, just to see how it would go = better than most human groups I've ever played with.
So I'm finding the heroes to be an asset once leveled.

Back to thread title - finding it hard to move my chars through, just not motivated = when done, now what?

ign - Huntress Velasca

Ninna · Nov 18, 2006, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

It's basically impossible to make General just from quests... So yeah, I've resorted to that insect patch myself for a couple of hours.

my Tyrian ranger - with zero points was my 1st character that made General

*Quested* it (there are many side quests)

Killing insects is faster tho and can make 2500 in less than 2 hours

I've finished General with 11 characters, only 3 were elonians

EDIT:
Heroes are ALOT of fun in Prophecies and Factions
- Nightfall adds plenty of Replay value to the other 2 chapters for me

Ninna · Nov 18, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

For me it makes no since to buy the pve content. I'll just wait and buy the pvp pack when it comes out.

Nightfall PVP pack has been available since launch, and is available now
- check the GW Online store

Kuldebar Valiturus · Nov 18, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

PvP seems to always be a forgotten factor in these forums. But, it too is part of the game for many people. And ANet did spend a little time incorporating PvP into the game...

But as for Nightfall content, I have 2 Tyrian, 3 Canthan and 2 Elonian characters to move through the Nightfall world, so it will keep me busy. Each character profession changes how I go about beating Missions/Quests. etc.

I get more efficient on how I go about things with each char, what quests to take and when, and also which ones not to take at the same time as others.

I think people that rush through, often bypassing content, do themselves and the game an injustice.

A well played game is like the art of romance, it's best done slowly and with a measured purpose; there's time for fast and furious pounding in PvP.