Curse

sinican · Nov 18, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

I have seen the other threads in regards to Skill Rewards... unfortunately many are asking if they exist anymore and none really contained anything that i really want to discuss about the subject...

Ill share my personally feelings about the situation...

After playing all 3 campaigns and knowing the "feel" of questing with and without the skill reward system... it basically comes down to this for me...

What is the point of even doing side quests anymore past lvl 20??? I ask this because once you reach lvl 20 at least for me I am no longer concerned about the XP gain from quests and I really never bothered careing about comendations /tokens etc because it just another waste of time for me to collect something to trade in for something else by having to go to this specific person and ultimately the time vs cost of just strait out buying the items is a lot more practicle vs collecting these items...

Now what used to give meaning to quests for me what that it was a way to get skills other than sinking 1k plus 1 skill point to buy them it made the game feel more like a game and not a grind... it gave purpose for me to do quests beyond lvl 20 and it removed the desie/need to FARM xp for skills points and gold...

really these quest for me get extremely tedious/boring/repetative when all they give is XP and some kind of token that can be traded in for things already avialable for sale on merchants..

I do find myself just ignoring all side quests past lvl 20 except for in NF when the reward is another hero to play with..

there is no title system for doing side quests and there are no other benefits to doing them... you dnot need side quests to explore to unlock cart you do not need these side quests for anything...

I miss having skill rewards...

another thing is that i believe it ruins the replayability of the game itself... after i played my first character through i found myself skipping every single side quest and just going for main objectives ad farming xp for my lvl gains... the time involved had no paracticle meaning...

I also believe that it limits character developement by all players even new players... when skills were rewards for quests players actually experimented with the skills now most dont waste the cash to buy a skill they don't think is usefull...

anyways... anyone else have another PoV...

and by no means am i saying remove the ability to buy skills... i would just enjoy having skill rewards for quests again... as an actual insentive to do them... i was disapointed knowing that the folks who origionally made skill rewards in prophacies did not do the same with NF...

dameros · Nov 18, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Yep, I totally agree with you. Quests need better rewards, wether it's skills, gold, weapons etc. I just want a quest reward to actually be rewarding. Maybe a-net could design some really hard quests with awesome rewards (drools*). I think that having harder quests with better rewards would be awesome because people would actually quest. Maybe have some quests like arena battles where you just defeat wave after wave of monsters or you have to lay siege to a fortress or something that doesnt involve running around like an idiot talking to people and killing a boss, and all of that for 200g and 2k xp

Avarre · Nov 18, 2006, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameros

Maybe have some quests like arena battles where you just defeat wave after wave of monsters

Troubleeeeeeeeed Keeeeeeeeper

More quests of that caliber, with more substantial rewards would be much more interesting.

TheMosesPHD · Nov 18, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Ever since a few months into Factions, I stopped buying Expert Salvage kits. Why? Because I've saved all of the quest reward tokens and just use one each time one of my chars uses up their kit. I've still got quite a heft stockpile of those items. The tokens aren't worthless, they are like in store credits, and even though there is some restriction on how you can use em, they're still basically a cash reward.

There aren't skill quests anymore because too many people have too much money. It's a gold sink. If you do the quests you get enough gold along the way and through the quests to pay for more skills, and a lil stuff on the side for armor junk too. Basically playing the game as it's presented to you gives you enough reward to get everything you need. If you want everything and more though, you'll have to work for it.

You won't have to "grind" for it because, of course, there is no such thing as grind in Guild Wars. But if you play your cards right, or in this case your skill bar, you can find innovative ways to make cash. So then, with each new chapter, they make it harder to make gold, but yet there are still tons of people with massive ammounts of gold who and are still amassing more.

Disregarding random accusations that all people with tons of money are ebayers, somehow these people are still making tons of money. So then it stands to reason that it's still possible to get rich in Guild Wars, but now instead of copying farming builds that could run by anybody's pet monkey, you're gonna have to think about it more this time around. Still though I see a lot of clueless losers making gold; tons of gold, so it's not like you have to do that much thinking.

Think:
-what is it that I can obtain that will sell for a good profit to other players?
-what is the most efficient (easiest) way to obtain this product?

Or:
-what items do I want to have for my characters?
-what monsters or process must I go through to obtain these items directly without having to go through greedy real player sellers?

Or:
-is it worth it to spend all of my time in game amassing a non-existent measure of income, or should I focus more on enjoying the interaction with other players, such as my guildies, or seek enjoyment through observing all of the great artwork created for the monsters and explorable zones that I traverse through?

Knowledge is Powah O.o and the answers are out there. If you don't have time to think about all this nonsense and amass teh cash because of real world obligations

You'll have to decide for yourself whether or not those real world obligations are more important and fulfilling than in-game rewards.

BoredJoe · Nov 18, 2006, 04:39 AM // 04:39

I'd prefer fewer quests. Nightfall has quite a few on the mainland, and I find they are fairly repetitive after a while. So many of the quests are much and much the same. I'd prefer fewer quests with better rewards, or just plain fewer quests and have the programmers,..etc work on other GW features.

Moiax · Nov 18, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

It seems to me that there are many, many quests out there, and that there is nothing truley compelling me to do them. As much as I like the content, there seems to be too much at some times. Everything since proph feels too rushed, like they are trying to cram more content into a smaller space, (which to some extent is intentional). More quests are probably easier than more zones to create though. What I have also noticed is that there seems to be a much higher Outpost to Zone ratio as the chapters progress, some zones share their borders with 4 or 5 outposts/missions. That is a huge amount. I think that a somewhat lower density of things, spread out over a bit larger area, along with better quests/rewards would make the PvE MUCH more enjoyable. Just think of the shiverpeaks area. Yeah it was inconvienient to get to mineral springs or snake dance to cap that one spell you wanted but it, to some extent, was a challenge.

If it comes down to a matter of a lack of time, would people be willing to wait 3 more months per chapter? If it would make the PvE portion more enjoyable, or more repeatable, I would for sure.

I apologise if I rambled..

generik · Nov 18, 2006, 05:55 AM // 05:55

I'd like to see more quests that directly impact my story, like for instance if I let this NPC die, he is dead forever (unlike in Guild War's lame implementation where all you have to do is rezone and there he is again).

Talk about being hypocrites, you talk about "realism" when it is convenient for you, like for instance the AI update. On other fronts this game is ridiculously unrealistic and you just act as if there isn't any issue at all.

garethporlest18 · Nov 18, 2006, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

I'd like to see more quests that directly impact my story, like for instance if I let this NPC die, he is dead forever (unlike in Guild War's lame implementation where all you have to do is rezone and there he is again).

Talk about being hypocrites, you talk about "realism" when it is convenient for you, like for instance the AI update. On other fronts this game is ridiculously unrealistic and you just act as if there isn't any issue at all.

If I remember correctly you were the one stating how the aggroing the Torment enemies do is perfectly realistic.

generik · Nov 18, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

If I remember correctly you were the one stating how the aggroing the Torment enemies do is perfectly realistic.

It IS perfectly realistic isn't it?

My point is Anet will cite their motivation for the new AI as being increased realism, but what about the portals? Let's say my party almost died, one guy run through a portal, mysteriously every dead person is resurrected and enters the next zone?

Does this make sense?

Same with minion masters walking through a portal. Oy! What happens to all the minions? I won't even go into why a zone is completely repopulated in the 0.1 second it takes to enter into another zone and back again. This game doesn't even have the idea of persistent sessions.

I understand Anet probably has a matchbox for their servers but it gets lamer and lamer over time.

garethporlest18 · Nov 18, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

It IS perfectly realistic isn't it?

My point is Anet will cite their motivation for the new AI as being increased realism, but what about the portals? Let's say my party almost died, one guy run through a portal, mysteriously every dead person is resurrected and enters the next zone?

Does this make sense?

Same with minion masters walking through a portal. Oy! What happens to all the minions? I won't even go into why a zone is completely repopulated in the 0.1 second it takes to enter into another zone and back again. This game doesn't even have the idea of persistent sessions.

I understand Anet probably has a matchbox for their servers but it gets lamer and lamer over time.

Ah I see what you were saying. Yeah it's a bit odd how parts of the game are realistic then it totally goes unrealistic. I'd rather them just pick one, cause I was looking at the buildings in the Hidden City and how they got on those rocks wouldn't be realistic at all. I like unrealistic games, just because the scenery is cooler, but I guess you have to have a mix of both.

nirhan shadowmauler · Nov 18, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

guild wars for me has always been a casual game. i log on to have fun. i pvp, i gvg, i do pve. skill rewards were the sole reason i did side quests. i absolutely hated factions not having skills as rewards. i hated HAVING to farm for skills. i bought guild wars because they preached a no subscription and no GRIND. well the grind went out the window and the subscription probably will someday too.

i havent played nightfall hardly at all since i bought it. and i doubt ill buy the next chapter if they dont bring back skill rewards. ArenaNet changed a good casual game that i could enjoy after work, and on weekends. now i dont even play because i dont want to have to grind the 150 platinum ill need to start a new character and get all the skills i want. and due to the fact that i enjoy pvp and the competitiveness of it i really want ALL the skills. and i want all the skills on my pve and pvp characters. maybe ill buy the pvp editions but i havent played in about 2 weeks and i dont think ill play in the next 2 weeks.

please bring back skill quests.

cointerm · Nov 18, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

I agree. The skill reward system in Prophecies was one of the best aspects of GW. They changed it so people could make more diverse builds, but I think they went about it in the wrong way.

Other than ideas already mentioned, I think it'd be awesome to link quests with Elite capping. Do a quest, get an Elite. Of course, I'm sure there are many that like the current system of capping the way it is....run out, kill boss, cap, end-of-story...but it's an idea.

exiled mat · Nov 18, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by cointerm

I agree. The skill reward system in Prophecies was one of the best aspects of GW. They changed it so people could make more diverse builds, but I think they went about it in the wrong way..

Yeah, they had the idea to give a skillpoint and some xp to choose your own skill, but not every quest gave 1K for obtaining the skill you wanted. So it was the most lame idea ever IMO...
Suuuuuure, we have more than enough skillpoints to buy any skill we want. But do we have the money? ....

ume kurosaki · Nov 18, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Some quests reward things that you can trade in to quartermaster-ish people.

shadowmist · Nov 18, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quests are boring because there's no reason for me to do them. After I got enough promotion points and xp, I just did only the primary quests and missions. They really need to bring back skill rewards.

Ninna · Nov 18, 2006, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

these quest for me get extremely tedious/boring/repetative when all they give is XP and some kind of token that can be traded in for things already avialable for sale on merchants..

I do find myself just ignoring all side quests past lvl 20 except for in NF when the reward is another hero to play with..

doing the same quest with 10 characters is tedious no matter what the reward is

yes, I prefer skill rewards but *none* of my 8 nonTyrians do the Skill Quests in Prophecies - Id rather buy the skill

after doing the same quest 8+ times, the quest loses its meaning

same in Nightfall, my nonelonians could quest for 2500 Sunspear but I'd rather farm it fast than spend alot of time questing it all (and I have quested it)

its nice to have choices tho

Paperfly · Nov 18, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

its nice to have choices tho

Unfortunately, they removed that as well.

The big benefit of the Factions system was that, while you got no "free" skills (after the first few tutorial quests), the skill trainers were well stocked with pretty much every skill right from the start, and you were given gold as a reward to help you afford them.

Nightfall skill trainers - even when you factor in the extra handfull available from hero trainers - are woefully understocked. And we don't get random freebies from quests. Worst of both worlds, seriously.

Edit: so far, I've spent thousands of Balthazar faction points just so I could access the Nightfall skills I wanted early enough at the traders. This is officially a bad thing (tm). If a player feels obliged to obliquely 'break' your game's design in order to extract enjoyment from it, there's something wrong with your design in the first place...

vergerefosh · Nov 18, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

I've had a paragon i've just made, and i found i skippedo ut a whole load of quests because i really couldn't be bothered doing them, as i'd been doing loads of other quests as well. Sure, they gave me xp, sunspear points etc, but it wasn't worth the tediousness, so i just went to factions did a couple of quests and got the levels.
Skill rewards would give incentive to modify builds, because i don't really have any skill variety anymore, because i don't want to buy loads of skills on the off chance that i may use them, and it's not worth spending the money trying to get all the skills as the cost just racks up far too much

Ninna · Nov 18, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Nightfall skill trainers - even when you factor in the extra handfull available from hero trainers - are woefully understocked

I agree

when I first saw Hero skill trainers I was happy until I realized they only have a limited number of skills to choose from

the Nightfall system is more expensive than Factions

with Factions,
you had more "free" starter skills before you left the starter isle
(if you include Hero skill trainers, its the same)

on mainland, you were given access to much better selection of skills to choose from -- most the skills were available at Kaineng Center

the skill cost was better in Factions
- yes skills cost the same, but Faction Quest rewards offered more exp and cash

with the improved cash you could more readily *choose* what skill you wanted (as opposed to being limited to small selection at Trainer/Hero trainer)

Warrior Of The Toon · Nov 18, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

I much prefer the quest rewards involving skills, even if it was only the Istan quests then you would at least be able to get a few builds running. When you are rewarded a skill you are more likely to use it, whne at a skill trader you might have been unsure as to whether it would be worth that precious skill point and probably won't buy it...