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Oct 19, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

#21

Mr_T_bot

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Originally Posted by htb723

Wouldn't the population of GW increase overtime though? Well, I guess it does decrease as well due to people quitting. I don't know. I guess Anet will keep making expansions until nobody buys them.

Nope, it is likely to decrease overtime as Arena Net practices drive away old customers and they put less and less into advertising and hyping the next game and keep trying to expand themselves into Asian markets, that they arn't even the right type of game for, and neglecting regions where they can attract players.

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Oct 19, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

#22

Phoebe

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Join Date: Jun 2006

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Originally Posted by MasterPatricko

a) losing diversity and becoming repetitive - skills, items, everything will start to seem identical to old stuff.

A sword will always be a sword. Yet somehow Felblades and Celestial Swords are very different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterPatricko

Already tons of skills are just repeats.

There's few skills duplicates, and those were only in factions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterPatricko

Most item skins are worthless. The more different "rare" skins they add, the more the market is divided.

That's the whole point of diversity. And the problem with the market is the lack of trading mechanism which ANet is working on fixing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterPatricko

b) losing Class specialisation

Guild Wars is about teamwork, not primadonas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterPatricko

c) losing Storyline

Storyline wasn't a major focus in Prophecies and Factions.
I've heard it was improved in Nightfall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterPatricko

d) Skimping on low-level PvE

Guild Wars is all about being level 20.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterPatricko

e) Splitting their player base

Heroes + just one friend. I hope you can manage that.

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Oct 19, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10	#23
Genraka Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2006 Guild: Brotherhood of the Granite Wolf Profession: W/Mo	Personally they just need to lower the cost for buying skills, then all new skills from the new campaings will not be much of a problem. I think i spent over 200k on skills with factions alone, this was not much of a problem with prophecies because of skill quests, Speaking of skill quests, thats the perfect solution. More Skill quests, Go back to factions and add skill s as rewards for the hundreds of pointless quests in factions, then do the same in nightfall and future campaings. Im getting tired of farming everyday just so i can afford my PVE characters

Oct 19, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21	#24
hazmat Academy Page Join Date: Oct 2005 Guild: WtF	I think that for the PvE side of Guild Wars to survive past the next 1-2 chapters: NPC AI needs to be improved 10-fold - I'd prefer fewer but harder enemies, that work together. The content and storyline needs to be improved. More progressive character advancement Personally I'd rate Factions very very low in terms of innovation. I didn't even finish it with any of my characters. It really fed off the success of GWP. The maps were poor, the NPCs AI was basically unchanged, there were way too many mobs that went down way too quickly. When I normally buy sequels I like to see a considerable improvement to gameplay - I didn't see this in Factions. I do have relatively high hopes for Nightfall, but who can say whats beyond that? Last edited by hazmat; Oct 19, 2006 at 03:29 AM // 03:29..

Oct 19, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48	#25
Y.T. Jungle Guide Join Date: Sep 2005 Profession: Mo/	i think after the not-so-successful ch2 anet's trying to improve the situation, but its obvious that we're not going to get new prof in each campain, new pets/areas/mis/skills - yes, of cos, but not new prof.... and its not that bad, come to think of it, i had 4 pve chars in ch1 with all 2ndries unlocked, bought ch2, made 2 more pve chars, unlocked all new 2ndries for existing chars, bought/capped all new skills for old pve chars, at least 0,5 mil on skills only..... at such rate ppl will stop buying new skills, competitive element will disappear, and eventually less and less ppl will buy new chapters... thats the worst-case scenario for anet, so i guess they'll do smth to prevent such situation

Oct 19, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35	#26
markus_thom Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia(the land of lesser games) Guild: neptunes grace Profession: R/W	The reason the story is so lacking is quite simple. This whole stand alone attempt on Anets behalf just leaves holes and gaps in past chapters and wastes perfectly good opportunities to extend off past material. Like I have been saying for ages they need to focus on linking the chapter’s together, and working on material they have already established. Imagine if future chapters came with mini expansions for past chapters, I think it would help to sell the product to be honest. Putting out a expansion for improving alliance battles would go a long way, even if it was just a mini feature for one of the newer chapters being released. How many continents and land masses are there going to be? Eventually Anet will have to go back and work with past stories and continents. Last edited by markus_thom; Oct 19, 2006 at 04:40 AM // 04:40..

Oct 19, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14	#27
floppinghog Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: pit of brimstone Guild: Squad Six Six Six [ssss] Profession: A/Me	I guess most of you havnt noticed the fact that heros can replace human players you would normally need. I'm willing to bet, the fact of ppl being spread alittle more thin across the many chapters we'll have won't be a problem by having new heros in all up coming chapters. See? You see how it is now and wonder how it would stay the same....thing is, it WON'T BE the SAME, quit crying wolf about nonsense and play the game. edit, adding: Also, this game WILL die without new professions, trust me. Without new combinations it will die, slowly but it would. The way I see it, the game will have so many more "jack-of-mixed-trades" I call it, like Ritualists are powerful healers like Monks correct? Well they can also do some DMG too in their own way (arguable or not) they have a different approach on healing and it works. Now just like Dervish will be differently played. Think how the Paragon will be a totally different way to protect an area through Chants and Shouts? See, it works, smiliar to spirits. One thing I can't wait for is: We'll have so many Professions that the Core ones wouldn't be required for builds with the right mix of new Professions. Wait and see, it won't be too long until we get 4 new professions. By this time next year, 4 new ones, Wah? Looks like alot more to play with. Maybe the only reason you guys can't appreciate how it can be then is because you can't see how it will happen. The unknown worries the human mind, and we all know this. Calm yourself and play the game. Time will come at its own pace. edited..alot of little booboos Last edited by floppinghog; Oct 19, 2006 at 05:30 AM // 05:30..

Oct 19, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29	#28
xiao1985 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Nov 2005	not sure in the rest of you, but i am just happy if there are new chapter of role playing...

Oct 19, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32	#29
Riesz Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2006	I'm hoping for some more traditional expansions (with a lower cost) than new 'chapters' every six months. Something like a few new towns, armors, missions and quests. No skills or professions.

Oct 19, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33	#30
floppinghog Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: pit of brimstone Guild: Squad Six Six Six [ssss] Profession: A/Me	im still laughing at some random ppl guessing "yeah, i think only 2 more chapters then it will die" WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU KNOW JACK.... psychic? Come on now.. lolZ I never knew so many people were experts at tellin the future.. hey guys... i think bush and the rest of the world need you to help out tellin the future of iraq and what north korea will do. please give us the insight. geez

Oct 19, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47	#31
Arcador Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: -- Profession: R/N	About all that Anet for sure have an answer, they got strategy which is not determinated for the next 10 days but for years ahead. They met those questions probably the day they decided to make an expansions THUS maybe before Prophecies was released so I am sure they know exactly how will manage with the new hero/skill/stuff distirbution.

Old

Oct 19, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

#32

Navaros

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Join Date: Apr 2005

Profession: Mo/Me

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Scutilla

It's common sense that Guild Wars will not last forever. Games grow old, and companies move on to newer and better things. I'd be surprised if Guild Wars hit 10 chapters, 6-8 sounds about right to me.

What games like Dark Age of Camelot, which came out in 2001, has had 7 expansions and still appears to keep going?

I agree with original poster that Guild Wars won't continue to work by the only major selling points being "new skills and new classes". They already made a ton of duplicate skills in Factions. Clearly there are not enough skills "out there" to keep being able to make new skills forever. Ditto with classes.

I'm thinking hopefully that will mean the devs stop trying to do that and instead make actual new end-game content for the game (ie: new versions of Tombs PVP, Realms of all the unfinished god statues etc. etc.) In my view unless the devs start doing that, eventually people are gonna stop buying the game as "new skills and new classes" are not enough of a reason to keep the very same old PVP maps, rewards, and gameplay worth playing forever.

As for "skimping on Pre-sear areas" - them doing that is a good start but what they really need to do is get rid of them entirely. Having Pre-Sear areas in each new game seems like a ripoff for those who only take old level 20 characters through the new chapters as they come - they are paying for content that they are cut off from accessing with their characters, and that's no way to reward long-time customers.

As for the original poster's idea to not be able to transfer your stuff past 3 chapters, that's a truly horrific idea. Emotes and high rank titles and lots of other things take forever to get, many more than 1 year. To make it so you can't transfer all that stuff of yours past certain chapters would be a sure way to kill the game.

Last edited by Navaros; Oct 19, 2006 at 08:18 AM // 08:18..

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Old

Oct 19, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

#33

Emik

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Belgium

Guild: [FaRM] Farm For The Win

Profession: N/

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

they are paying for content that they are cut off from accessing with their characters, and that's no way to reward long-time customers.

I dunno where you are running around but afaik all content is avail for all characters accross all campaigns apart from pre searing prophecies.

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Oct 19, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

#34

Navaros

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Originally Posted by Emik

I dunno where you are running around but afaik all content is avail for all characters accross all campaigns apart from pre searing prophecies.

The "Pre-sear" quests in Factions and even non-Pre-sear quests like "Mayhem in the Marketplace" are not available to level 20 Tyria characters who come over.

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Oct 19, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30	#35
Emik Jungle Guide Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Guild: [FaRM] Farm For The Win Profession: N/	That works the other way round too afaik or can Canthan Chars run through the Storyline from Prophecies? Never taken a Canthanborn into Tyria before so i'm not up to date on this

Oct 19, 2006, 08:36 AM // 08:36	#36
Lady Lozza Forge Runner Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oz Guild: Angel Sharks Profession: Me/N	Emik, all quests up to Lion's Arch are not available to Canthans. All missions before Lion's Arch provide no reward - except as an addition the protector title.

Oct 19, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48	#37
Zakarr Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: Finland	Ultima Online was released in 1997 and currently there is about 135,000 players. Diablo II has no monthly fee and it still has lots of players (ten thousands in battle.net). The game was released in 2000 and the expansion in 2001 Anarchy Online was released in 2001 and they are still updating it so there must be lots of players.

Old

Oct 19, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

#38

MasterPatricko

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Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Guild: Liars, Cheats and Thieves [LIAR]

Profession: R/

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Another massive post. Sorry guys

Stick Out Tongue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

a)And you have obviously never played a well-built mesmer. We usually hench most quests and missions through choice. We don't need to spam for groups because as soon as you show up in town/outpost you receive multiple invites.

I love mesmers. My point is you never think about using a mesmer in PvE cause they are never available (for exactly the reason you state - most mesmers are experienced players who play with their guildies or hench) because their numbers are so low i.e. they are UNDERUSED compared to the other classes, not that they suck compared to other classes (lolx they own).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

c) How many books and movies are out there with similar storyline; people love it.

True. But its not the same people buying everytime is it? Only big fans of stuff ever have more than a couple of items out of a series. With GW its the same - its the fans that already know they are going to buy every campaign no matter how bad/good it is; to them this doesnt really matter (and they'll just make excuses). But the average person, especially those who bought GW for the PvE, are gonna get bored if no new ideas are introduced in the storyline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

d) ANet gave the customers what they were demanding in forums; faster leveling. Now in Nightfall, they've tryed to merge both types.

That is true. However what the people demanding faster leveling didn't understand is that it makes it harder on the new players and also shortens the entire game. They didn't care about the actual gameplay, they just wanted lvl 20 chars to farm or unlock stuff for PvP. Catering to them will mean the game is harder for new characters - a compromise has to be made.

Quote:

e) If you have one campaign and buy a new chapter, you will still go back to older chapters for elite capping etc. with your new characters. If you are new to the game with Nightfall, you will most likely buy at least one of the previous campaigns. Not being able to link new chapters to your existing ones would lose customers. Players LIKE being able to bring their lvl20s to the new areas. They don't want to HAVE to start all over and build a duplicate toon and buy all the vanity stuff again.

And I'm not saying anything against *that*. Linking is a great idea. But how many chapters can you link before it goes crazy?

Quote:

As to the forecast by others of GW getting dumped for GW2; why? ANet keeps updating GW. I didn't buy it until March 2006, but if you ask players who have had the game from beginning, they will tell you how it's a whole new game just in the one year. IMO, GW servers will keep going until ANet is no longer showing a profit on the game. If it comes to the point where they would need to start charging a fee for access, they will close it down and come out with a new game.

If ANet keeps releasing new content (e.g. Sorrow's Furnace) it helps keep the interest of the masses, I agree. But did they do anything like that for Factions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by agk512

you make a lot of good points there.
the whole thing over new storylines about all of the bad guys is that nightfall is gunna be the last one in anets little trilogy they are about to make. they are going to tie up all the loose ends in nightfall. 4th campain is gunna start up something totaly new.
for the population, not such a big problem. in the first days of nightfall there will be a ton of ppl over there, but after about 2 months it should be balanced out again guildwars has the same fate as all mmos, its gunna die out someday. and when that happens i think that mostly everybody would have had enough to satisfy.
then we get guild wars 2

Excellent point! Maybe ANet has realised some of the things pointed out here, and Nightfall is the last of the series, or at least the end of this storyline and the beginning of a completely new one. One thing I hate about fantasy games is you invariably end up fighting undead/zombies(afflicted). I hope we aren't stuck doing that again in Nightfall ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

What games like Dark Age of Camelot, which came out in 2001, has had 7 expansions and still appears to keep going? I agree with original poster that Guild Wars won't continue to work by the only major selling points being "new skills and new classes". They already made a ton of duplicate skills in Factions. Clearly there are not enough skills "out there" to keep being able to make new skills forever. Ditto with classes. I'm thinking hopefully that will mean the devs stop trying to do that and instead make actual new end-game content for the game (ie: new versions of Tombs PVP, Realms of all the unfinished god statues etc. etc.) In my view unless the devs start doing that, eventually people are gonna stop buying the game as "new skills and new classes" are not enough of a reason to keep the very same old PVP maps, rewards, and gameplay worth playing forever. As for "skimping on Pre-sear areas" - them doing that is a good start but what they really need to do is get rid of them entirely. Having Pre-Sear areas in each new game seems like a ripoff for those who only take old level 20 characters through the new chapters as they come - they are paying for content that they are cut off from accessing with their characters, and that's no way to reward long-time customers. As for the original poster's idea to not be able to transfer your stuff past 3 chapters, that's a truly horrific idea. Emotes and high rank titles and lots of other things take forever to get, many more than 1 year. To make it so you can't transfer all that stuff of yours past certain chapters would be a sure way to kill the game.

I totally agree with you except on the low-level PvE. That content isn't locked off from long-time players - the whole point is that you are able to make NEW characters in the new campaign as well as move your lvl 20s! And I do realise that things like rank not being transferred would annoy lots of people (especially me, i worked hard for it no iway), and a compromise would have to be worked out. Something like account-based titles get transferred or something. And about the new endgame content: totally correct, my point exactly, "new skills and classes" ain't going to work for much more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y.T.

i think after the not-so-successful ch2 anet's trying to improve the situation, but its obvious that we're not going to get new prof in each campain, new pets/areas/mis/skills - yes, of cos, but not new prof.... and its not that bad, come to think of it, i had 4 pve chars in ch1 with all 2ndries unlocked, bought ch2, made 2 more pve chars, unlocked all new 2ndries for existing chars, bought/capped all new skills for old pve chars, at least 0,5 mil on skills only..... at such rate ppl will stop buying new skills, competitive element will disappear, and eventually less and less ppl will buy new chapters... thats the worst-case scenario for anet, so i guess they'll do smth to prevent such situation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genraka

Personally they just need to lower the cost for buying skills, then all new skills from the new campaings will not be much of a problem. I think i spent over 200k on skills in factions, this was not much of a problem with prophecies because of skill quests, Speaking of skill quests, thats the perfect solution. More Skill quests, Go back to factions and add skill s as rewards for the hundreds of pointless quests in factions, then do the same in nightfall and future campaings. Im getting tired of farming everyday just so i can afford my PVE characters

Yeah, the cost of skills becomes exorbitant. That's why I miss skill quests ;( The average player does not have 100k+ to spend on skills - ANet once said 90% of all players have less than 100k. Even for experienced players, if you dont farm like a money machine, the cost of skills really takes its toll. I still have not unlocked every single skill for Factions simply because I can't afford it. Oh and btw skill quests > reward quests - for most characters a skill costs 1k. A Prophecies skill quest gives you 2 skills - that's worth 2k gold, plus the priceless skill points! See any Factions quests give you that much money?

Also, as many people have said, i do realise ANet do not *have* to add new professions every chapter. If they don't, brilliant. But then better be a good level of actual content, not just some rehashed "new" skills.

And everyone saying "Heros will save us all" - they are just glorified henchmen. They still have the same AI (besides the flags). Don't put *too* much trust in them - yes, they are great, but still no substitute for a real player. Are you ever going to be able to talk to a hero and tell him "I'm going afk for a min dont aggro anything"? Can you ask the hero to heal the other monk, not the assassin trying to tank? Can you tell a hero to save his interrupts for when the Hydras are using meteor shower? I was rather annoyed that I had to take a hero on some of the missions - meant I couldn't do it with my friends. And anyway as I've said before, the player base decreasing is not my main point.

Noone is trying to predict "GW will die in two chapters" - my point is that
If Anet keep adding new professions and skills in every chapter, they will cause the game to get too complicated, repeats will invariably happen, and the content of the game will suffer. So they better not. I hope Nightfall proves me somewhat wrong.

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Oct 19, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13	#39
Xeeron Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2006 Guild: Strike Force	I hope that Arenanet will be bold and stop adding character classes with every campaign, instead opting for storyline and other character enhancements. However, I dont count on it. - Xeeron

Oct 19, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52	#40
morimoto Academy Page Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft. Worth TX Guild: House of Soot?! Profession: Mo/W	if you want to know what the future holds for guild wars look no further than the game magic the gathering. this game has so much in common with guild wars its not even funny. now, i cant comment on low level content or things like that. but as far as skills and professions go, these games are very similar. magic the gathering is organized into groups of 3. meaning there is one core set (prophecies) and 2 other expansions (factions and nightfall). these sets have a common theme....skills work in a similar way and spells have something in common. after one set has ran its course, a new core game is released that introduces a new twist on how the game is played. you can see it in magic the gathering with the introduction of concepts like phasing, shadow, flanking, buyback and others. i expect GW to do something similar.

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