Curse

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 21, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

I know better than to respond to a fan boi but can't help it .. storage and auction is hardly unreasonable. Core issues are not nags .. sorry. The person wanting a certain type of mini pet yes. If I ran my business as they do I wouldn't have any customers. Judging by your post count and when you joined it is safe to say you spend more time trolling than playing.

You are hardly the first person to accuse someone of "trolling" just because of a disagreement. People are petty like that. And my join date has nothing to do with how long I've played GW. Got any more wild speculations and conclusions?

Anyway, storage and auction requests are not unreasonable. DEMANDING them to be put in is unreasonable though. Do I want those two features in? Very much so. But I know things take time. I don't go ranting about it though.

Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't. So those two features arent in, just be patient. And if they never get in? Yeah it's disappointing but why dwell on it? Those are hardly game breaking features. Go enjoy the other aspects of the game.

Ninna · Nov 21, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narutoscryed

QFTFT

Good post dude.. the information you have provided would be pretty hard for anyone to overlook and write off as speculation.

Ive already refuted his "speculation" of GW being absent from the NPD Top 10

Rankings based on units sold, according to NPD figures from October 22-28, 2006
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guild...ml?sid=6161500

ChildeOfMalkav · Nov 21, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

What this? Another ANET IS DYING!! GW IS DYING!! MY GRANDMA IS DYING!!! thread? I guess it was past due for one.

Thanks for the laugh people. I'll see you in another couple of months for the next "GW is dead" thread. And the one after that and the one after that.

leprekan · Nov 21, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

You are hardly the first person to accuse someone of "trolling" just because of a disagreement. People are petty like that. And my join date has nothing to do with how long I've played GW. Got any more wild speculations and conclusions?

Anyway, storage and auction requests are not unreasonable. DEMANDING them to be put in is unreasonable though. Do I want those two features in? Very much so. But I know things take time. I don't go ranting about it though.

Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't. So those two features arent in, just be patient. And if they never get in? Yeah it's disappointing but why dwell on it? Those are hardly game breaking features. Go enjoy the other aspects of the game.

Uh me thinking you are a forum troll had nothing to do with a disagreement. As I said join date and post count was basis for that.

18 months is plenty of time to have addressed core issues. Anet should just be happy some of the people are still here 18 months later asking about the core issues still. Will they fix the AI? NOPE. Anet has shown time and again they will stand their ground on what they think. Downside is ... what the customer base thinks is the only one that matters. Those features were only examples ... there are many things they don't get around to.

EPO Bot · Nov 21, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

I dunno Duke, i kinda like GW the way it is.That's why i played it for more then a thousand hours with six characters. If anything gets improved, so much the better.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 21, 2006, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Uh me thinking you are a forum troll had nothing to do with a disagreement. As I said join date and post count was basis for that.

As I said before....keep making those ridiculous assumptions and conclusions. Really, that was is some of the worst logic and reasoning I've heard. So with your criteria, anyone who is new and posts often is a troll? I'm boggled.

So you keep mentioning "core issues" that ANET apparently refuses to address for 18 months. The so called A.I. issues have only been for almost a month so don't even say that's a persistant problem they've refused to fix.

leprekan · Nov 21, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

As I said before....keep making those ridiculous assumptions and conclusions. Really, that was is some of the worst logic and reasoning I've heard. So with your criteria, anyone who is new and posts often is a troll? I'm boggled.

So you keep mentioning "core issues" that ANET apparently refuses to address for 18 months. The so called A.I. issues have only been for almost a month so don't even say that's a persistant problem they've refused to fix.

Best of luck with your boggle.

The AI update is linked and viewed by MANY as yet ANOTHER attack on farming. Which lumps it in with core issues. Anet started their Jihad against farmers with the protective bond nerf and hasn't let up since.

EternalTempest · Nov 21, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Anet know that since each chapter is different on some level, there going to lose people. They also know that people will drift away over time. There business model was sold to NCSoft this way and they felt to green light Anet with the plans they have.

Anet's health is based solely on hard core fans + new players to keep buying chapters (any chapters). As long as new sales from any chapter are at a certain level, Anet is healthy. It is true that ANY company if in trouble or in a lull, will not talk about it, but that's normal business practice.

I personally don't see signs of Anet faltering presently. Also GW Guru (love it here anyway) but the fan base is mostly negative in a lot of things, or very "vocal" no matter what's going on.

Also as time goes on, Anet masters the art of "6 months of content" to keep people happy long enough till the next expansion. And the stronger there base, the more they can survive a "dud" game.

Zehnchu · Nov 21, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Nothing will be the same as it was when GW first came out, doesn’t mean the game is dying it’s just the cycle of things. And with each new release there is always going to be a game dynamic that is changed. They really try to put enough content for every one from the casual players to the hard core gamer.

Honestly I would rather Anet working on improvements of current game content then releasing the next chapter in the six months, give or take a few more months on the release of the new chapter. And just work on some minor improvements, there’s always a big gripe about the FoW and UW favor system, access to elite missions, and differently rework on trade improvements. The new AI it’s ok, but it really needs to be fine tuned. And better reward system for quests, maybe add the option to get skills for rewards and keeping the buy all here at trainer to give people options. Those are just some of the issues that are always commonly discussed on these forums.

Maybe add in contest winner armor that costs 100k a piece not counting crafting materials. Don’t raise the amount of gold that can be carried on the character, you would have to go and get each piece or have all your friends hold what you need. Same can go for weapons. This would be something for a long term goal and something for gamers to shoot for.

But that’s just my two cents.

Str0b0 · Nov 21, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

Honestly, if you think ANet isn't being receptive to it's player base then perhaps you haven't been exposed to many online games before. After 2 years in WoW, I can tell you that Blizzard is a lot less personable and "real" in there brushes with the players. ANet has a very human face to it's customer relations in the form of Gaile Gray.

The AI changes shook things up a lot, but I think the jury is still out on some of the issues. I don't notice the "AI strangeness" on all my characters, so it might not be so straightforward. I still find PvE battles to be high action and fast paced enough to keep me entertained. But, AI tweaks are ongoing and the game isn't broken.

There is a common truth in MMORPG's and their ilk: sometimes the giving the customers what they say they want can kill a game. Or set it back.

Really, I have seen it.

It's happened in Dark Ages of Camelot, cries for class nerf's and more PvE oriented content...

It's already happened in WoW not long after it's release with Dishonorable Kills in PvP. World PvP and class nerfs.

BUT, these things are normal.

A developer walks a fine line:

Between listening to a player and sticking to his guns.

You know how much flack Michelangelo received from his customers regarding the his work in the Sistine Chapel?

Point is, he stayed mostly true to his Vision although he also made a few concessions.

People are way too antsy. Just sit back and have a little faith.

The only constant is change and we will never lack a reason bitch about things, of that I am certain.

You make many valid points and I concede to the fact that Anet is by and large not the worst customer service out there but they certainly aren't the best. Honestly I think EQ takes the cake on good customer service, I've seen them do whatever it takes to make a customer happy and to fix their issues in a timely manner. As for the AI issue and giving people what they want not necessarily being the best way to go I would only say this. Go ahead and search not only this forum but other Guildwars forums as well for the topic of monster AI. I guarantee you that the number of topics post Nightfall that have negative things to say about the AI vastly outnumber pre Nightfall negative posts regarding the AI. This to me is pretty cut and dried, the majority of players liked the AI the way it was and it should be a simple matter to revert it. While I do not lay the blame for the AI solely on the heads of the pro farmers I do think that there are more efficient and customer friendly ways to root out the pro farmers, if the AI update was indeed mostly due to their activities, than by making such a sweepingly unpopular change. My personal thoughts on this, having been in IT prior to starting my own business, would be that a database search daemon that looked solely at transactions and affiliations would do the trick nicely. If Player A recieves 100K from Player B and Player B is not in Player A's guild and there was no item traded then there is an exponentially greater chance that this is a gold for cash transaction. Granted one transaction like this does not prove conclusively that someone E-Bayed the gold however it does give you a starting point and repeats of said behavior can't be so easily explained away as coincidental. This way you can root out not only th customer's but the accounts of the sellers. The problem will never completely go away but at least it can be mitigated via this method without taking away form the game.

Sidra · Nov 21, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

And that, Falcon, is where your post goes to hell. "Go play WoW". The typical, "grr" response that you'll always get. Completely contradictory with what you all typed before.

AI Problems- not only do they kite like that, I've had groups of beetles and other ungodly spiking things aggro me from OFF of the minimap. No, not the ones that come from underground, but from where I dodged.Things are totally messed up, and ANet really doesn't seem to want to acknowledge it. Multiple-res-sig Ether demons anybody?

Sunspear points are capped at level 8. You might have gotten a few more when you got level 8, but you shouldn't be able to get it higher than the bounty for 9, and you shouldnt be able to get 9 yet. ANet posted this on their own, don't flame people complaining about it.

About skill nerfs- you're mostly right, but when Arenanet gets too lazy to kick the botters because of their completely butchered update schedule, and start changing skills to "nerf" the builds they use, because they figure that this will deter them, they do exactly what you said players should. Nerfs aren't the answer, since they adapt as well if not better than we do. These things effect the entire game, and it pisses people off.

Arenanet DOES seem to be losing players and profit with Nightfall, I don't know if it's because of heroes and more people being constantly out of towns, but I deleted 2 entire friendslists when I came back at the release of NF, and only 1 turned out to have stayed. That one now spends all their time AB'ing for faction, because they hate PvP and find it the easiest/least thought-worthy of them and it helps their guild. Bitchers and whiners occaisionally have points, although some people are just there because they lost all their "leet platz" to a nerf or whatever; people don't up and mass-complain as much as I've seen people doing in towns and here for no reason at all. As every rumor contains a kernel of truth, every mass of whining asses (myself included :-P) must have a point within their torrent of endless badgering to continue without getting completely shut down. Look at the "i'm bored" thread, or any other thread complaining about something, and see how many have been closed. Most of them due to repetitiveness, but the ones that stay open are a majority and stay there because the mods obviously (even if they don't agree) see there is something in the person's reasoning for the particular comment/complaint and leave it there.

It's human nature to complain much more than compliment, and people remember bad things much more than they do good. Listen to you, yourself, going on about people and saying non-truths because of things you might not have known. It's perfectly predictable that we'd all be up in arms over the numerous issues/petitions being posted :-) don't get so angry.

frojack · Nov 21, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Propaganda... It's quite simple. The mmo market is slowly shrinking not in mass, but in acceptable content. The current environment, in the long run, can only sustain a small number of these things. Not many people play more than one these days. The Lion's share will always be just that; the lion's share (WoW, Lineage etc...). It's the state of the 'scraps' that affects all the others.
Slimmer pickings mean you can not sustain. All true mmo's need players to survive. Without that, they die. A simple, cold, and very well known truth.
Guild Wars isn't actually an mmo. It's fee structure is hugely different. That's why it's a stronger animal in the current climate. An evolved form if you will. Guild Wars can happily co-exist with say, WoW on most machines because it's an entirely optional, one-time payment. Similar to say Medieval 2:Total War, or Half Life 2. It's actually a boon that it's so successful on it's own as a hybrid mmo if you ask me, making it even stronger still. It also offers something you can't get from anything else of it's ilk in the form of High-end competition.

News flash; Buying 2 games a year is almost as much as paying a years worth of monthly fees. It's actually more if you go special edition (like everyone and their mum).
People get iffy' about paying monthly for crap. No news there. They will always consider and re-consider continued payment.
People rarely get bummed out about shit they've already payed for 6 month's down the line.
The continued purchases will always be attractive because your getting 'new stuff'. A huge deal when your trying to sell things. For most, the bi-annual down-payment isn't so hard to make.

Any of the connotations sinking in? Good.

All your 'proof' shows is that a) NC Soft are banging their head's against a brick wall because of said shrinkage (would be annoying if it made up most of your business) and b) that out of all their sheep, GW is actually doing very well for itself, while some of their other products tell a different tale.

Guild Wars is fine. Nobody knows the future and this may change, but it pays to make predictions that come good. Guild Wars, this evolved creature, will be riding high. Renewing it's 'cycle' as it goes, phoenix style.
While the other, lesser creatures. Un-evolved. Bandying hackneyed models. Suffering from a coalescent decadence, slowly wither and die.

FalconDance · Nov 21, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

I have 11 characters on my account of varying achievement and levels within the three chapters. While there are temporary troubles with storage, I have had no reason to complain and ragequit over not having more. In fact, I seemed to be one of the few people here who thought the material storage was an overall, sufficiently good thing!

A few of the looming issues you guys seem to think Anet is being unreasonably inept and unattentive over:

It also appears I am one of the very few fortunate ones who does not have major issues with the "AI problem". Bad guys get hurt = bad guys run for their lives. What is unrealistic about that -- that they're smarter than most human characters? People are complaining because there is an occasional glitch in that the foe senses you and attacks from farther than the aggro bubble. Hmmm. Again, maybe they're just smarter than the human player. If you know that is a possibility, then how about being a little more aware and careful? Oh, but wait a minute. Then you'd have less to whine about. My bad.

My issue with the AI - and it's more of a computer targetting error or even lag, I think - is that foes can attack through obstacles such as boulders and walls or from above/below while my attacks are obstructed. Not a show-stopper, but very very irritating.

An auction house, you say. Well, if people didn't spend all their time farming, there wouldn't be such a 'need'. But that is their choice of how to play. Now they're complaining because they cannot easily unload their goods. Go figure. (Before you start flaming me, I am not dissing farmers - much.)

A hairstylist. Omg, people. Just /ragequit already, please! It's called character creation screen, not Barbie's Boutique!

Is Anet doing badly? To hear many of you, they're half-rotted in the grave already!

If Gaile or anyone else from Anet is reading this post, here is one happy GW customer (with a few issues that I know are already being worked on) in a household of four happy GW gamers. I am very sorry if we disappoint you by being beyond the norm here.

P.s. Since Sidra mentioned a previous post of mine. Yeah, I know that was a stereotypical comment of mine about WoW. But how many times do you hear whiners comparing the two games and gushing how much better X is in WoW than it is in GW? It's sickening and frustrating and really ignorant, in fact.

Antheus · Nov 21, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

I know better than to respond to a fan boi but can't help it .. storage and auction is hardly unreasonable. Core issues are not nags .. sorry. The person wanting a certain type of mini pet yes. If I ran my business as they do I wouldn't have any customers. Judging by your post count and when you joined it is safe to say you spend more time trolling than playing.

It's not as much about being reasonable or not, but about not making a stand.

Auction house and storage are two issue, that's a given. But it would be much more helpful, if they simply stated: "Auction Houses and Storage will not be implemented or changed in Chapter 3, after that, the situation will be re-evaluated".

At least this means, they are not permanently not adding it, but it gives you a break from constant nagging.

Auction houses may seem like a good idea, but it not necessarily is. Increasing storage might once again conflict with design. But unfortunately, neither of these issues (unlike some others) have ever been answered with anything but token "we're working on it".

Enchanted Warrior · Nov 21, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

I guess the recent changes could be compared to SWG's NGE. LOL

Narutoscryed · Nov 21, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Propaganda... It's quite simple. The mmo market is slowly shrinking not in mass, but in acceptable content. The current environment, in the long run, can only sustain a small number of these things. Not many people play more than one these days. The Lion's share will always be just that; the lion's share (WoW, Lineage etc...). It's the state of the 'scraps' that affects all the others.
Slimmer pickings mean you can not sustain. All true mmo's need players to survive. Without that, they die. A simple, cold, and very well known truth.
Guild Wars isn't actually an mmo. It's fee structure is hugely different. That's why it's a stronger animal in the current climate. An evolved form if you will. Guild Wars can happily co-exist with say, WoW on most machines because it's an entirely optional, one-time payment. Similar to say Medieval 2:Total War, or Half Life 2. It's actually a boon that it's so successful on it's own as a hybrid mmo if you ask me, making it even stronger still. It also offers something you can't get from anything else of it's ilk in the form of High-end competition.

News flash; Buying 2 games a year is almost as much as paying a years worth of monthly fees. It's actually more if you go special edition (like everyone and their mum).
People get iffy' about paying monthly for crap. No news there. They will always consider and re-consider continued payment.
People rarely get bummed out about shit they've already payed for 6 month's down the line.
The continued purchases will always be attractive because your getting 'new stuff'. A huge deal when your trying to sell things. For most, the bi-annual down-payment isn't so hard to make.

Any of the connotations sinking in? Good.

All your 'proof' shows is that a) NC Soft are banging their head's against a brick wall because of said shrinkage (would be annoying if it made up most of your business) and b) that out of all their sheep, GW is actually doing very well for itself, while some of their other products tell a different tale.

Guild Wars is fine. Nobody knows the future and this may change, but it pays to make predictions that come good. Guild Wars, this evolved creature, will be riding high. Renewing it's 'cycle' as it goes, phoenix style.
While the other, lesser creatures. Un-evolved. Bandying hackneyed models. Suffering from a coalescent decadence, slowly wither and die.

although your quote is very well put.. and your opinion very respectable.. i have to dissagree with you..

I think you may be confusing destruction with evolution.

Please allow me to explain: If anet changes somthing about the game.. lets say gives three professions instead of 2.. this could be considerd evolution... as it would yeild more options for gameplay..

But for example if they make a majority of an item market worthless.. like they have done.. that could be considerd destruction. Because what is the reason of playing a game that has no real replay value.. as any first time player could own 90% of the items in the game with about 10k.

this i could see as destruction. and the constant "narrowing" of the general gameplay of the game could be seen as destruction...

and finally the almost dead atmosphere in game due to the overuse of heros in mission... could also be seen as destruction..

then again all these points could be seen as evolution also.. so i guess its all about what side of the ball your on..

nontheless great post and i hope you can understand my views aswell.

Nero · Nov 21, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narutoscryed

although your quote is very well put.. and your opinion very respectable.. i have to dissagree with you..

I think you may be confusing destruction with evolution.

Please allow me to explain: If anet changes somthing about the game.. lets say gives three professions instead of 2.. this could be considerd evolution... as it would yeild more options for gameplay..

But for example if they make a majority of an item market worthless.. like they have done.. that could be considerd destruction. Because what is the reason of playing a game that has no real replay value.. as any first time player could own 90% of the items in the game with about 10k.

this i could see as destruction. and the constant "narrowing" of the general gameplay of the game could be seen as destruction...

and finally the almost dead atmosphere in game due to the overuse of heros in mission... could also be seen as destruction..

then again all these points could be seen as evolution also.. so i guess its all about what side of the ball your on..

nontheless great post and i hope you can understand my views aswell.

QFT.

*this message was too short*

Loviatar · Nov 21, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

[QUOTE][QUOTE=Narutoscryed]

Quote:

But for example if they make a majority of an item market worthless.. like they have done..that could be considerd destruction.

like bringing down the superior absorb rune from 100k to under 5k therefore making farmers/ebayers/ect very unhappy

Quote:

Because what is the reason of playing a game that has no real replay value..

how many games have you had a great time playing and when finished gone on to another game and grabbed the sequel to the first as soon as you could.

the value is in playing it the first time and any extended replay is gravy.

Quote:

as any first time player could own 90% of the items in the game with about 10k.

so what?

THIS IS NOT GOLD WARS

i used to think a rabid GIVE ME UAS PVP person was the top complainer.

my apologies to them as pro farmers win hands down

the farmers who yell the loudest?

you would swear Anet was cutting their RL income instead of game gold

natuxatu · Nov 21, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

I was a little concerned about the fact that A.Net isn't doing updates as much as they did with factions.. such as fixing missions and quests.. i know they have done a few but there is also some major ones left. To me it seems like they're being rather quiet but maybe they're just getting ready for the holiday.

wilebill · Nov 21, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Monthly listing on IGN for October puts GW Nightfall at number 11 in sales, calling this "particularly impressive" sales performance for Nightfall since Nightfall was released on the 27th, nearly at the end of the month. IGN gets their sales rankings from a market research firm, the NPD Group.

So wait until the November sales rankings are available. Nightfall is probably going to be high on the list if it made it to 11th position with only four days of sales.