Curse

phasola · Nov 16, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Crap armor, most of the elites, crap end game items are crap.
The only reason i got most of my chars to the end of factions was because endgame armor was sweet

.

Gun Pierson · Nov 16, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Well, I guess not since I'm not generally the conspiracy theorist type.

Neither am I. I look at behaviour and facts. To my knowledge we never had that kind of actions of Anet in such a short time period and we never had a post of this size about this topic. Especially the tripple green drop so short after NF release together with farming complaints catches my eye. Even though one can say only a small part of the population posts here and that we have multiple posts of the same users in this thread.

It can be coincidence but there's a possibility it's not.

Anyway, you can have the last word as I don't want to make it a one on one debate and pump up the posts in this thread. I already posted enough in here and even deleted several of them and will delete some more.

birdfoot · Nov 16, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Ok why not let's do this?

- For future posts (initial ones), state /bored or /notbored. There's not many of us around but it's always good to know how everyone feels.
- State reasons for /bored or /notbored but please try to avoid pissing someone else off. :P
- Suggestions, perhaps (if you're bored), on how the boredom can be cured.

I'll just start off with mine. Feels like a survey. :P

/bored

Reasons:
- Dullness in the gameplay though fine with the changes done by ANet so far.
- Feels that current changes or at least planned changes (that we are aware of) don't reflect much on extending GW's gameplay.

Suggestions (mainly PvE):
- Add more detail to the game to get a better feel of the GW world.
- Life-skills could possibly help to provide more variety and reduce focus of mob-fighting as the core of the gameplay.
- Add personalities to enemy AI so that different monster types behave differently when engaged in battles.

General Suggestions for ANet:
- Perhaps let us know the boundaries with which our suggestions should be confined in
- If you're ever thinking about extending the gameplay of GW, do let us know which aspects you guys are currently looking at. This would help the community suggesting ideas to put on their thinking cap and work in the same direction.

lacasner · Nov 16, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

agreed

WasAGuest · Nov 17, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Sounds good to me:

/bored

Reasons:
- AI is simply killing the fun factor by attempting to act like PvP bots.

Suggestions (mainly PvE):
- Each mob should act like it is modeled.
- Mob classes (when they apply - such as to human AI) should be set to defend and protect their weakest link; not "see monk-spike monk" and leave their entire back line defensless.
- Make battles feel like a struggle to gain ground. Not a run-a-mok game of tag and catch-me-if-you-can.
- Give roles to each class, but make them vesatile so that cookie cutters don't set it, yet each class is wanted or accepted. Right now for example, in PvE, there's no point in a warrior. All mob are set to go straight for the monk. So taking a ranger and several monks with heal/smite can pretty much wipe the AI out. Part of the PvE fun is having a task and completing it. Those that choose warrior for example, are probably not wanting to play herder.

General Suggestions for ANet:
- Stop trying to merge PvE and PvP; the play styles are vastly different. Players have been telling you to stop this since as far back as I can remember. PvE goals and play styles are different than those of PvPers.
PvE does not want mobs that run around playing tag, it's annoying and not fun after facing 20 groups per zone. I'm not sure how many confrontations the general PvPers has per night, but 20 per zone times two or three zones per several quests in one evening... /yawn
PvPers, from what I am seeing, are not liking the AI (generally a PvE feature) in their PvP (player vs player last I knew) in their competitions. This same topic has been beaten to death and yet still needs to be brought up. - I bring it up yet again, since the AI seems to be modeled to act like PvPers in an arena.

Trvth Jvstice · Nov 17, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdfoot

Ok why not let's do this?

- For future posts (initial ones), state /bored or /notbored. There's not many of us around but it's always good to know how everyone feels.
- State reasons for /bored or /notbored but please try to avoid pissing someone else off. :P
- Suggestions, perhaps (if you're bored), on how the boredom can be cured.

Birdfoot, that takes all the fun out of the debate. I'll make this my last post in this thread.

Hopefully Anet will listen to the GWGuru community and fix the AI so that when people are finished playing the game, they can find other ways to have fun.

MMORPGs are generally expected to be open ended and allow players to continue having fun in the game after they complete the main plot or storyline.

P.S. (Does WoW and Everquest even have a storyline?)

lacasner · Nov 17, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

This "debate shouldn't be fun"..if your arguing just for the sake of arguing then you shouldn't be posting anything here imo.

birdfoot · Nov 17, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Birdfoot, that takes all the fun out of the debate. I'll make this my last post in this thread.

Hopefully Anet will listen to the GWGuru community and fix the AI so that when people are finished playing the game, they can find other ways to have fun.

MMORPGs are generally expected to be open ended and allow players to continue having fun in the game after they complete the main plot or storyline.

P.S. (Does WoW and Everquest even have a storyline?)

Hi Trvth Jvstice. It's just that the 'debate' wasn't exactly going along the fun side for this thread. A little too heated up I think.

Actually, I'm kinda confused at your sudden mentioning of MMORPGs since GW isn't marketed as an MMORPG. WoW & Everquest as MMORPGs have more of a story setting, while GW (like Diablo II) has a beginning and an end of story. As of now, the definition of MMORPG tends to be alittle gray since it was coined to refer to online games that supported insanely huge number of players simultaneously (something pretty technical). To avoid ambiguity, my definition of MMORPG refers to games like WoW which presents more of 'open-state' roleplaying that does not have a storyline to follow (i.e. game does not offer any objectives that could led to possible endgame).

As MMORPG has no end state (virtually existing and growing forever), it's gameplay is usually designed to suit that way. While GW is non-MMORPG, it's not impossible to encompass MMORPG gameplay (such as life skills for e.g.) while maintaining being what it essentially was. This could help to extend the gameplay and make GW more interesting while retaining GW as non-MMORPG. I've been going through the suggestion forums quite abit, I can see that more and more players are suggesting aesthetic changes. While this may have no direct impact to actual PvE or PvP, they do sound like suggestions that are fun and improve the (virtual) reality of GW world.

My apologies if I've spoiled your fun but if there's anything else you'd wanna debate about, pm me and I'll join your thread (to make up for it).

Btw, I wasn't sure where exactly you were coming from so my reply may be irrelevant. :P

WasAGuest · Nov 17, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

bit of a rant here -
As usual, the considered "fixes" are being looked at where? Here's a hint... not PvE...

At least let us know something on the PvE side... and I don't mean about silly titles being renamed or silly green items from mobs that run a marathon instead of fight.

link.

ok, better now... that's out of my system

Trvth Jvstice · Nov 17, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

/notbored

Reasons: I really enjoy playing pve with pugs. My favorite is monking Thunderhead Keep pugs.

Suggestions: Anet, help more people enjoy GW by constantly tweaking the enemy AI until absolutely everyone is satisfied.

P. S. Dang! Birdfoot made me a liar lol. Sorry I have to reply. This is my first Massively Multiplayer Online Game. It is an RPG right? So if it's not a MMORPG, what is it? If massively multiplayer means having everyone together in one world at the same time instead of instances like GW does, please excuse my ignorance.

birdfoot · Nov 17, 2006, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

/notbored

Reasons: I really enjoy playing pve with pugs. My favorite is monking Thunderhead Keep pugs.

Suggestions: Anet, help more people enjoy GW by constantly tweaking the enemy AI until absolutely everyone is satisfied.

P. S. Dang! Birdfoot made me a liar lol. Sorry I have to reply. This is my first Massively Multiplayer Online Game. It is an RPG right? So if it's not a MMORPG, what is it? If massively multiplayer means having everyone together in one world at the same time instead of instances like GW does, please excuse my ignorance.

Oops. I didn't mean it that way. Sorry if I made you feel bad. :P

Yes it is an RPG. As I have mentioned, MMORPG definition is kinda gray, it was coined by Sony (for EverQuest) to describe how massive the game would be, iirc. It's quite normal for people to take GW as MMORPG since "massive" seems to imply huge numbers. ANet has marketed GW as CORPG (Competitive Online RPG) to make that distinction as GW was pretty much instanced (dungeon-based while MMORPG world, in general, is in one piece) all around and didn't exactly fit into the broader definition of MMORPG. In addition, GW was initially centered around PvP play so "Competitive" fit the bill. Just to share alittle knowledge, hope I haven't got anything wrong though.

realoddsman · Nov 17, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

/discouraged

5 more characters to get 2500 sunspear points for... plus 10 more dunkaro and tahlkora's + zhed and sousuke's to cap to 20.

Plus im broke as f*ck

Cappin elites isnt fun (or possible

) when you're broke.

Myrkwid · Nov 17, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

bit of a rant here -
As usual, the considered "fixes" are being looked at where? Here's a hint... not PvE...

At least let us know something on the PvE side... and I don't mean about silly titles being renamed or silly green items from mobs that run a marathon instead of fight.

link.

ok, better now... that's out of my system

*WARNING! Entering rant-mode*
It's been this way since they introduced pvponlycharacters and since then the game gets more and more morphed into an fantasy-cs. But to be like cs the pvp is, in my opinion, far to stale, slow and rewarding defensive play....
*leaving rant mode*

Back to topic (and summing up what I said before):

/bored

reasons:
spreaded my time 75% pve (which lacked in endgame and lost it's endgame completely upon nightfall release) and 25% pvp, mostly with my pve-chars, I put much work into to get them pvp-ready (was my favorite endgamecontent, but pve-chars are nerfed out of pvp in my opinion). Doing pvp with disposable heroes was maybe ~0.1% of my playing time and all that's left to do for me and that's a bit few for paying full price for an onlinegame.

Fixes:
-overall and significant improvementof drops and availability of mods.

-give pve-chars a possibility to get to the level, the pvp-chars are now at (a level they have because of pvponlys complaining about pvechars being "overpowered" lol), that ist not grinding 300 hours per character and still be just close to their level.

-allow farming again. Farmers didn't hurt anyone, they just made rare skins and mods available. Common skins are craftable at fixed prices and without farmers you would take forever to get some mods needed to outfit the common wepaons. Still haven't seen a zealous mod for anything else than bow since the droprate of them has been "lowered" and I did play much and opened hundreds of chests. Farmers were my only hope to get certain mods when needed, as I don't enjoy farming for long periodes. If this is a no-go, then find another way to make eqipment, that is needed to play, available to more than just a few very lucky guys.

-adding some endgamecontent, the game is lacking pretty much in that department. Actually there is none. Repeatable, complex, difficult, rewarding randomquests would be a start.

-add real rewards for doing quests. Nobody needs the XP. What's the use of a large pile of skillpoints if you can't pay the gold needed to spend them.

-Easier access of skills for pvetoons. Make unlocked skills available to every trainer, even elites and get rid of the insane costs for them. Locking at my character I'd need more than 300p to just get the primary class skills for my characters. And that without a decent way to generate income. Let pve's use unlocked equipment. Maybe "customized" for the character.

-I always thought playing both parts of the game combined was the way the game was meant to be played. Combined...not divided from each other. Actually that was one of my major reasons to stick with it for almost two years now (including the betas). This is more and more discouraged and should be reversed. Some of the above suggestions unfortunately water down pve even more, but for me, somebody who want to play both parts of the game combined, they are the only things coming to mind that are at least remotely possible with the way the game has taken.

This is just my(!) opinion. It is also my(!) opinion, that this all will fall on deaf ears in Washington or wherever ANet is located.

FC ftw!

Edit: forgot to mention that teampaly should get rewarded, too. The current game promotes singleplay far too much and most people just get a negative experience out of playing with others. Maybe something like improved drops, more gold, whatever. And along with it: fix the broken lootsystem. It's totally borked and annoying as hell!

bebe · Nov 17, 2006, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Boo Armor = Boring Nightfall. T-T

To me anyways.

Pudin Tame · Nov 17, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

I really think that ANet needs to make a statement on this. I believe they are at risk of losing a lot of loyal players if they don't either fix it soon or let us know they're working on it. If it doesn't get fixed they will definitely lose me and I'm sure many others. When they do nothing they appear to be pompous jerks who can't admit when they are wrong, and I've seen the DVD and know they are not. Please just let us know something. If it's going to take a couple of weeks to fix it, fine, I'll hang out. If it's not going to be fixed I would like to move on as soon as possible.

Rhedd · Nov 17, 2006, 08:49 AM // 08:49

I'm bored with this thread. Does that count? ^_^

Angelica · Nov 17, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

/not bored ...... but disappointed for sure!
(I only play PvE because I'm not good at PvP and I do not enjoy it.)

Things that frustrate me:

1 - Pityfull and very few drops from lvl. 24 monsters, not even max.

2 - Quests that have a continuations and send you up and down the same paths.

3 - Mobs that attak even if you are far away from them, and I'm not talking about spotters.

4 - When I open chests (600 golds per key) and I find only purple daggers

and I don't even have an assassin drive me nut!

Too many daggers in NF!

5 - Even if I appreciate the use of heroes, I miss the human contact, not easy now to get in a PUG or play with guildies.

6 - This is just me, but I don't like riddles or similar things, I like to be told plain and clair what I should do!

7 - The camera that make me dizzy because turns me around continually.

8 - Last ..... I will complete Nightfall with only one elonian characters and none of my others, I really do not wish to redo all of this! May be I should have said "/bored!"

Contrary to Prophecies and Factions where all of my Tyrians character went in Cantha and completed the game and so did my Canthans character going back to Tyria and completed the game there too. I have 8 characters ... not counting the Elonian one.

Bye bye Nightfall, pity I did not know before how the game would be ...... I would not have bought two copies of it.

Narutoscryed · Nov 17, 2006, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

I'm bored with this thread. Does that count? ^_^

troll ^_^

Rhedd · Nov 17, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narutoscryed

troll ^_^

Shh! If that becomes common knowledge, I'll have farmers knocking on my door 24/7! ^_^

On topic, though, I WISH I'd played NF enough to be bored. My spouse and I intend to play it together, and we haven't really found time to start, yet. Alas.

WasAGuest · Nov 17, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrkwid

Edit: forgot to mention that teampaly should get rewarded, too. The current game promotes singleplay far too much and most people just get a negative experience out of playing with others. Maybe something like improved drops, more gold, whatever. And along with it: fix the broken lootsystem. It's totally borked and annoying as hell!

Actually, that's a great idea. I've seen that put in with other online games as well. EQ for example bumped up the exp gain more with each group member, and gave a huge bonus towards gain for a full group. AC2 did like wise but also increased drop rates of currency for full groups. So, unless you were simply content with slow gains in either, you wanted and desired a group.

You and I actually completely disagree on the combining of PvE and PvP it seems. I see it like oil and water. You can eventually mix the two compounds, but only after one is no longer it's base structure, or, it's completely broken down. At which point it's no longer what it should be... what good is oil when it's no longer "slick"? - However, good to see an opposing opinion worded nicely.

It's also good to see comparisons of GW towards MMO's. GW is not labeled an MMO for various reasons, but some of those reasons really don't apply anymore. EQ began using instanced zones to a far greater ability than GW has yet to do. Quests and missions for example. Google "EQ LDoN" to see more on that; they did that really well. EQ2 has also expanded on instanced zones a great deal. GW seems to have fallen back on instanced zones to use as an excuse for lack of staple RPG "things to do". But in answer to these additions, rather than say "GW is not really an RPG like we say it is (CoRPG)" we get "GW is not an MMO, it's a CoRPG". It's a spin on words... at least that's how I see it.
MMO or CoRPG has nothing to do with many of the missing features an RPG should have. Yet we are led to believe that it is.

Anyway, it's great to finally have a discussion on the reasons for boredom, rather than the flame wars... anyone else see the other two "AI" and "Bored" threads start up and get closed already? hehe - see, more and more will open till it's addressed and fixed.