Curse

bigwig · Nov 16, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

No, anet doesn't have to respond to a bunch of vague complaints about how the game is not fun. What exactly are they going to do? "oh the game isn't fun!? shit we forgot the fun! quick program in the fun guys!"

xXa1 · Nov 16, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwig

No, anet doesn't have to respond to a bunch of vague complaints about how the game is not fun. What exactly are they going to do? "oh the game isn't fun!? shit we forgot the fun! quick program in the fun guys!"

you need to sit down and take your time to read. there are issues here, not "vague complaints" as you so nicely put it. there is a pessimistc attitude in many gw forums right now and i suggest you also start reading those other boards too. such a negative feeling everywhere wouldn't be in the air if the customers truly found the game fun.

midnight caretaker · Nov 16, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwig

No, anet doesn't have to respond to a bunch of vague complaints about how the game is not fun. What exactly are they going to do? "oh the game isn't fun!? shit we forgot the fun! quick program in the fun guys!"

Its not that didnt program fun its that they made changes to the game. These changes took away what people did for fun in the game or took away goals for people. Could you imagine being a new player and wanting to get fow armor now? With farming messed up this would be extremely tough and not worth the grind of getting the money together. I still feel the whole update that made the monsters "smarter" is anets way of getting rid of the ebay market but it will also get rid of 75% of the gw community. My friends list has never been this inactive and some of those people inactive have given up the game due to the changes made.

WasAGuest · Nov 16, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwig

No, anet doesn't have to respond to a bunch of vague complaints about how the game is not fun. What exactly are they going to do? "oh the game isn't fun!? shit we forgot the fun! quick program in the fun guys!"

You insult Anet with that comment; even as you attempt to defend them.

They are not so dumb as that. If they are truely reading these threads, then they can clearly see where they are going wrong. Looking at the dates on the majority of major complaints and general discontent will show them when the "problems" began; thus they are smart enough to see when what changes went into effect and trace back the issues.

Let me try to address the boredom in this way;

Which is more fun?:

1) Finding a sweet looking drop and discussing the where's, how's and what dropped it, then forming a group with your friends to go get more? Or finding yet more of the same type of merchantable items and heading back out with heroes and henchies to do more quests?

2) Coming up against a 50 foot rock monster who just slapped your group back to the rez shrine with a wicked two hit combo and hearing the laughter over vent/ts about getting owned by the AI; or seeing Dunkoro yet again being chased around in circles for the 100th time in the same zone?

3) Finding new and interesting ways to take out the mobs; or equiping the now standard cookie cutter skills to stop the AI from applying on the Benny Hill show?

4) Fighting a battle where each class has a role and a place; or simply having a certain skill type allows for annihilation of the AI?

For me, 2, 3 and 4 are the biggest game killers. That 50 foot rock monster is not a threat. He can't "pound" anyone into the group while he's busy chasing Dunkoro around. Equiping the fotm skills to keep the fool AI from running in wild cirlces complete and quickly gets old really fast. To add to that problem, the players, when out with just heroes and henchies (as in trying to level them up so they don't wipe when they are needed in a mission or quest) aren't even allowed to move; otherwise the AI will attempt to follow. Number 4 however is the ulitmate killer for me. There's no point in having or taking a melee class now. Load up on all monks and rangers. The mobs will rush the monks, rangers can spike the AI monk... with AI monks dead, monks cast SoJ and typical smiting spikes and game over.

Where's the struggle at? Where's the combat? We need to be able to fight towards the enemy monk, or healer. We need to feel the pressure of that massive 50 foot rock creature pounding on the front line. They should be hitting so hard that even the most well armored warrior (maybe 10 feet tall at best) is reeling back from the blow. Those mesmers and rangers should be keeping the mob support line busy while the "tanks" work on each other. The ele's should be blasting the front lines while the monks work to keep everyone alive. - Tactics, roles, purpose. GW currently needs these things back in PvE. Currently, it has but two scripts. Spike the monk and run to avoid being hit. There's no struggle and no feeling of battle in that. PvE and PvP are different in that aspect, and that's something Anets need to learn. They are different.

Does that make the game easy? Well, yea; when Anet ignores the call to make the mobs tougher. We aren't asking for run-around AI, we are asking for that poisonous spider to be poisonous, not to use a human skill "apply poison". We are asking for that 50 foot rock monster to hit like a 50 foot rock monster. We are asking for those savage creatures to act like savage creatures and hit like they are savage. We are asking for that Djinn so named for a diamond to take damage like a creature of diamond might. So far, every one of the above mentioned creatures does and acts the same. Boring.

There are more examples as well. Point is, having fun, not owning the AI or getting everything for free. It's the removal of the above fun things and in place we have the boring things.

And no offence Bigwig, but posts like yours are the reason why new threads of the same topic are opened up; because the issues are buried.

Pudin Tame · Nov 16, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

With SO MANY people playing and buying all 3 games, it's obvious that Anet is doing at least one thing right; they've made a game that millions enjoy and play on a daily basis.

ANet WAS doing something right. They changed everything the day before the release of Nightfall when most of us already had our copies. I didn't make a post like this for Nightfall or Prophecies because they were fun and ANet nerfed the fun on the day before a release! What's the rationale behind taking a look at what everyone is doing in your game and taking it away from them? I understand trying to balance things for PvP, but PvE is inherently unbalanced.

bigwig · Nov 16, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

You guys must feel sooooo persecuted. I can't believe i never took the time to read through this thread and take in all the whining. (in fact I did, i just regret that i did)

My point was they tried to make this game fun. In fact, to most people it is, and most of the posts in this thread completely disregard that most people like the game. They didn't set out to do a crappy job. It wasn't their intent to set out to do mediocre work, put in a so-so game and call it a day. In fact I wouldn't say they had, its not a great game but its good. The thing is, this game is what it is. Its not going to radically change, tear apart every foundation the game is built on, metamorphize in to the best game EVER. The truth is nightfall is fairly similar to prophecies, and if you don't like nightfall you're just tired of guild wars. No shame, no awful rip off, its just more of the same.

I also tried to point out that there isn't much arenanet can say to people who don't like their game. Do you expect them to come in here and say "You know what? guild wars ******* sucks!" Sorry pal, reality comes in to play here. This is an internet forum. You are whiners on an internet forum, let it go. Stop getting all tense and paranoid that arenanet is conspring against us all to take over the world and in the meantime ignore you on these forums specifically.

but fine, you guys gang up and flame anyone who has a dissenting, slightly humourous point of view, i'm sure it makes you feel vindicated inside.

This thread is so off-topic, please close it.

Sirus Dibley · Nov 16, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXa1

bored and frustrated. because the anet devs continue to create the game they want and not the game their customers want.

and until the devs learn to address the concerns of their customers instead of creating their inanely stupid polls about titles (who freaking cares about titles these days) and weekend events (i thought they didnt want people to farm now they create a farming frenzy???), then the time will come when people will certainly give up ranting and log-off for good.

for the record, what people are complaining abuot boils down to these few issues:

1. ai behaviour since the NF update (there was no reason to "fix" what wasn't broken in the first place and this thoroughly riles the pve community)
2. heroes in pvp areas (player vs player is never player vs bot and it thoroughly riles the pvp community)
3. the lack of human interaction in elona

there anet devs. address those issues and maybe we won't feel bored and will stop griping about our frustrations.

if the devs continue to develop guild wars into the game they want, then this will be a niche market game that cannot survive using it's current business model.

He speaks the truth. Brilliant post and correct on every point imo.

Pudin Tame · Nov 16, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwig

You guys must feel sooooo persecuted. I can't believe i never took the time to read through this thread and take in all the whining. (in fact I did, i just regret that i did)

My point was they tried to make this game fun. In fact, to most people it is, and most of the posts in this thread completely disregard that most people like the game. They didn't set out to do a crappy job. It wasn't their intent to set out to do mediocre work, put in a so-so game and call it a day. In fact I wouldn't say they had, its not a great game but its good. The thing is, this game is what it is. Its not going to radically change, tear apart every foundation the game is built on, metamorphize in to the best game EVER. The truth is nightfall is fairly similar to prophecies, and if you don't like nightfall you're just tired of guild wars. No shame, no awful rip off, its just more of the same.

I also tried to point out that there isn't much arenanet can say to people who don't like their game. Do you expect them to come in here and say "You know what? guild wars ******* sucks!" Sorry pal, reality comes in to play here. This is an internet forum. You are whiners on an internet forum, let it go. Stop getting all tense and paranoid that arenanet is conspring against us all to take over the world and in the meantime ignore you on these forums specifically.

but fine, you guys gang up and flame anyone who has a dissenting, slightly humourous point of view, i'm sure it makes you feel vindicated inside.

This thread is so off-topic, please close it.

You trollers are the only reason there are any off-topic posts at all in this thread. You haven't taken a side or made a valid point yet. I'm assuming that you must be having the time of your life with Nightfall and that's why you're spending all your time trolling the forums. Why don't you just pretend this thread isn't here if you have nothing constructive to say.

WasAGuest · Nov 16, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwig

I also tried to point out that there isn't much arenanet can say to people who don't like their game. Do you expect them to come in here and say "You know what? guild wars ******* sucks!" Sorry pal, reality comes in to play here. This is an internet forum. You are whiners on an internet forum, let it go. Stop getting all tense and paranoid that arenanet is conspring against us all to take over the world and in the meantime ignore you on these forums specifically.

You made no point, nor expressed any opinion. You attempted to derail and bait for flaming so that your next quoted line would take place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwig

This thread is so off-topic, please close it.

And another will open to take it's place, and another after that. Why do we see so many new ones open up every day? Because people like yourself that can not grasp the concept that discontent is all over the place.. That's ok though, because you will "gang up and flame anyone who has a dissenting, slightly humourous point of view"; "i'm sure it makes you feel vindicated inside."

No, this thread and all others should not be closed, they should be stickied so Anet is sure to take note there are issues needing addressed. Even if they are to say, "Sorry, this is how it is intended to be".

Sir Kilgore · Nov 16, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Again, I have to say: Disagreement and differing of opinions does not equate to trolling. If you can't handle difference of opinions then you shouldnt be on a forum.

Any chance you could take your own advice?

Disagreeing is looking at the topic and then stating the opposite opinion with supporting points. It's not telling other people to "adapt", it's not telling people to stop whining, or that there are already enough threads on the topic. The big difference between the two is that one is a discussion and the other is a mild attack. The mild attacks which accompany nearly every post of yours that I've seen are the problem.

I don't think anyone on here expects full agreement from the community on any topic. Most of us do expect that our opinions get a little courtesy from those who disagree.

Let me see if I can put this into perspective for you: Pretend for just a moment that Anet listened to all us "whiners" and changed the AI back to the way it was before NF. You've indicated you like the changes, so we'll also pretend that you would then come on here and voice your displeasure that Anet caved in to us. If every time you posted something, a few of us popped on and told you to "adapt" to the changes, stop whining and deal with it, or we constantly said there were enough of these threads, don't you think you'd get a little tired of your opinion being constantly bashed?

We aren't posting here to hear from those of you who like the changes or to get into an argument. We are posting here so Anet can see what a portion of their clientel thinks about the changes they've made in their product. You, of course, have every right to voice your support for the changes. All I'm asking is that you do that without belittling the opinions of others who disagree with you.

For me the changes to the game are the rough equivalent to hearing Celine Dion sing an AC/DC song or the Dixie Chicks slaughter "Sweet Child of Mine". Sure, it's the same song, same notes, same words, but it doesn't ROCK any more.

However, I also recognize that some people may prefer the re-made versions of these songs to the originals and I can accept that. For me it just doesn't cut it.

Gli · Nov 16, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

I'm not bored yet, I don't oppose the AI changes, I don't care about heroes in PvP, heroes aren't taking away any human interaction for me, I can still farm to my heart's content, I don't think Nightfall is too easy nor do I think it's too hard, and I do indeed realize that this is a horrible run-on sentence.

Sir Kilgore · Nov 16, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I'm not bored yet, I don't oppose the AI changes, I don't care about heroes in PvP, heroes aren't taking away any human interaction for me, I can still farm to my heart's content, I don't think Nightfall is too easy nor do I think it's too hard, and I do indeed realize that this is a horrible run-on sentence.

Maybe, but it's still a stellar example of how you can disagree without insulting or belittling others. Thanks!

Trvth Jvstice · Nov 16, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Since when did disagreeing with someone become "flaming" ? I've made several posts in this thread and while I may have disagreed, I never once flamed. Half of my posts were supportive of the OP. I didn't make a dissenting post until some comments became outrageous.

My opinion:

1. Prophecies and Nightfall are very close in the style of game play other than the heroes.

2.Some people have played this game into the ground. Their only way to still enjoy the game was to farm.

3. Farming has been nerfed to where the hardcore farmers no longer find it enjoyable. I have repeatedly stated that I am against the farming nerf.

4. The majority of people still enjoy the game. This was my point in my last 2 posts.

Pudin Tame, Narutoscryed and others, how many hours have you put into this game? Thousands I imagine. Surely you realize there is a limit to how long you can stay in a game before you get sick of it.

I see Pudin Tame's point about Nightfall being new and therefore shouldn't be boring yet, but so many have said Nightfall plays very similarly to Prophecies.
I don't think it's the game play you're sick of, it's probably the game mechanics you're tired of.

When you're stuck using one very small and unintended aspect of a game aka farming to have fun, it's probably time to move on.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 16, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Kilgore

Any chance you could take your own advice?

Disagreeing is looking at the topic and then stating the opposite opinion with supporting points. It's not telling other people to "adapt", it's not telling people to stop whining, or that there are already enough threads on the topic. The big difference between the two is that one is a discussion and the other is a mild attack. The mild attacks which accompany nearly every post of yours that I've seen are the problem.

Wow. You just can't let it go can you? You keep saying that I'm attacking people but what have you done in your last 6 posts (including the deleted ones)? All of those 6 posts were made just to say how much of a "troll" I was.

You don't even address whatever points I've made. You're just pointing fingers and screaming about how I've wrong you when I've only had a differing opinion that you can't handle. Stay off the boards if you think what I've said was so hurtful.

Sir Kilgore · Nov 16, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Wow. You just can't let it go can you? You keep saying that I'm attacking people but what have you done in your last 6 posts (including the deleted ones)? All of those 6 posts were made just to say how much of a "troll" I was.

You don't even address whatever points I've made. You're just pointing fingers and screaming about how I've wrong you when I've only had a differing opinion that you can't handle. Stay off the boards if you think what I've said was so hurtful.

Yep, I finally got so tired of it that I had to stoop to your level.

I never said you wronged me. What I said is you don't simply disagree with anyone. You tell them what they should do and how they should do it. I'm sure to you that's being helpful. But unless you work for Anet, you can't fix anything for us. If you do work for Anet then it's shameful that you are down here bolstering support, but I doubt that's the case. You seem to be smarter than that.

The points you make are about how people should change the things they do to fit around the game.

The points people here are making is that they don't like the changes that were made.

Many in here are blaming Anet for what they did to the game, but you have blamed people for not conforming to what Anet did. You don't see the difference?

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 16, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Kilgore

Yep, I finally got so tired of it that I had to stoop to your level.

I never said you wronged me. What I said is you don't simply disagree with anyone. You tell them what they should do and how they should do it.

Oh yes. I was so horrible to tell you to take a break and come back later. God, I'm so hurtful!

Sir Kilgore · Nov 16, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Oh yes. I was so horrible to tell you to take a break and come back later. God, I'm so hurtful!

*YAWN*

WasAGuest · Nov 16, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Since when did disagreeing with someone become "flaming" ? I've made several posts in this thread and while I may have disagreed, I never once flamed.

And a huge thank you for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

My opinion:

1. Prophecies and Nightfall are very close in the style of game play other than the heroes.

2.Some people have played this game into the ground. Their only way to still enjoy the game was to farm.

3. Farming has been nerfed to where the hardcore farmers no longer find it enjoyable. I have repeatedly stated that I am against the farming nerf.

4. The majority of people still enjoy the game. This was my point in my last 2 posts.

And thank you again for sharing your opinion. This is good to see.
If I may comment; not argue.

I agree with number 1. It's a lot like it, and I think that's wonderful.
2. It's an online game, there should be numberous ways to play it and numerous ways to run it into the ground. The sheer fact that many see "farming" as the end of all to do, is a problem.
3. Yea, agree here as well. It should be a viable and (key word next) entertaining option.
4. Which is why a post like this is even more important; so Anet sees that not everyone is enjoying the changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Pudin Tame, Narutoscryed and others, how many hours have you put into this game? Thousands I imagine. Surely you realize there is a limit to how long you can stay in a game before you get sick of it.

Considering it's an online ever changing game, surely the life cycle should be longer than a week after it's newest release? That should mean everyone should still find some enjoyment in it. It's new after all, and as we agreed above, it's a lot like Prophesies. Proph alone kept us entertained for a year if not more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

I see Pudin Tame's point about Nightfall being new and therefore shouldn't be boring yet, but so many have said Nightfall plays very similarly to Prophecies.
I don't think it's the game play you're sick of, it's probably the game mechanics you're tired of.

When you're stuck using one very small and unintended aspect of a game aka farming to have fun, it's probably time to move on.

Here is where I think we can disagree; it's not untill the changes around Nightfall's release did anything in the game become an utter bore. I, unlike some here, are not all into farming for fun. I have stated in fact that I personally found it boring; but hey, many enjoy it, so cool. The core game, the mechanics were wonderful and enjoyable... untill the changes in the AI.
Now I find each and every fight playing out the exact same. Maybe people like how predictable the AI is now. I dunno, but knowing before hand that every bug, roach, plant, giant and flaming scooby will be heading right for the monks each and every time gets kinda old after awhile. I mean, all the players need to do is equip against that insta-monk aggro and it's game over for the AI... but that's my opinion on it...

Anyway, thanks again for stating your opinion and sharing.

Pudin Tame · Nov 16, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Since when did disagreeing with someone become "flaming" ? I've made several posts in this thread and while I may have disagreed, I never once flamed. Half of my posts were supportive of the OP. I didn't make a dissenting post until some comments became outrageous.

My opinion:

1. Prophecies and Nightfall are very close in the style of game play other than the heroes.

2.Some people have played this game into the ground. Their only way to still enjoy the game was to farm.

3. Farming has been nerfed to where the hardcore farmers no longer find it enjoyable. I have repeatedly stated that I am against the farming nerf.

4. The majority of people still enjoy the game. This was my point in my last 2 posts.

Pudin Tame, Narutoscryed and others, how many hours have you put into this game? Thousands I imagine. Surely you realize there is a limit to how long you can stay in a game before you get sick of it.

I see Pudin Tame's point about Nightfall being new and therefore shouldn't be boring yet, but so many have said Nightfall plays very similarly to Prophecies.
I don't think it's the game play you're sick of, it's probably the game mechanics you're tired of.

When you're stuck using one very small and unintended aspect of a game aka farming to have fun, it's probably time to move on.

I disagree that the gameplay of Nightfall is similar to that of Prophecies. The AI update itself changed everything about the gameplay. There's also the fact that PUGs are almost non-existent because of heros and more henchmen to choose from. Almost all skills have to be purchased now rather than getting them as quest rewards, which not only cuts down on replay value but also encourages farming which is being simultaneously discouraged. You can no longer run a character through the game once you have beaten it. Those were key elements that made Prophecies fun. When you finished one character you could start a new one and finish it without it being too much of a grind. You had the option of buying or questing for skills. There was FoW and UW. Are they ever going to open the other statues?

I would like to play some different characters in Nightfall but have no desire to grind through it with all of them. This is a major flaw IMO, possibly a fatal one. I think that may be the major hit to the "FUN" factor. I'm now stuck playing only the two characters that I have the patience to finish the game with instead of being able to mix it up a little. When guildies ask for help now I'm limited in what I can bring to help them, and chances are that most of the people who can help are going to have the same types of characters available to do so. I believe that once you have beaten the game with one character, you should be allowed to either run your other characters through the game or the areas opened up on one character should be available to all characters on the same account. Sunspear points need to be eliminated, made account-wide, or simply have say 2,500 given to lvl 20s brought over from previous campaigns as well.

I have spent a lot of time on this game, but that was because I loved it. We are the ones ANet should cater to. They have a lot more to lose with loyal repeat customers than they have to gain with new customers.

Farming was more of an opportunity to hang out with the friends I've made playing GW than anything else. It wasn't something I did because I was bored with everything else, but rather it was fun and had a bonus of a payoff. With the grind that is farming now it's just not fun anymore so all that's left to do is fill up my party with heros and henchies and do some quests. I've done every Nightfall quest I can find up through Troubled Keeper on my necro btw.

You say that a majority of people still enjoy the game. I want to know where this poll is at because I think a lot of people are simply fighting through it hoping things will get better.

byteme! · Nov 16, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

1. Prophecies and Nightfall are very close in the style of game play other than the heroes.

Prior to the day before NF release this point was probably still valid but not anymore.