Curse

Young Hero · Nov 30, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apharot

I'm amazed at the lack of maturity I'm seeing in a lot of posts here. You pay, what, $40 for a game and play for free

Not sure what your talking bout
2 accounts chap1- 100$
1 Factions account-50$
1 NF CE edition-70$
4 character slots because storage system in GW completly sucs-40$

260$ US dollars is leaps and bounds from free

natuxatu · Nov 30, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Is it just me or has it gotten worse perhaps in a recent update.. not so much with the enemies but the henchies and heroes.. I've been okay with the new AI system.. I think I even defended it a little.. but just recently I've noticed that my heroes and henchies are attacking whatever they please sometimes no matter how much I target on an enemy.

Maybe it was just the map I was on or combo of heroes/henchies either way I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I was getting a little frustrated last night when they weren't listening to me like.. at all lol

x64600 · Nov 30, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wtf Its A Monk

Very well put.....i agree 100% with you WasAGuest....lets just hope that Anet sees the light

so far it looks like they havent

it seems to me that anet wanted to stop people from playing alone and encourage team play (as stated in many peoples posts)....but what about the people that enjoy the challenge of going out on their own to make money and solo. i think that it is unfair to punish those people for using skills that let them solo. seems like anet wants everyone in the game to have an even playing field and for everyone to be equal but without the competition of soloing and getting the best overpriced items guildwars is no different than a regular RPG. MMOs are supposed to have competition but with the way Anet is pushing it, it seems that they want us to go through the storyline(even that is hard with the AI running around like a bunch of idiots on speed) and be done with the game other than PvP. PvErs will always find a way to farm regardless of how horribly mangled the AI is. So why even try and stop thing that gives some players the most satisfaction.

I guess the question is.....Will Anet's desire to destroy the solo aspect of the game also destroy the rest of the game play in PvE as well?

I think it might. So many of my friends where excited when Night Fall came out. After they where placated by the current AI they lost interest and went on to other games before even finishing NF. They may get back to NF. Partially from my goading them. But I am losing people to play with.

I really like Nightfall. The story is great, the setting is intriguing. & the graphics are gorgeous. I did not have a hard time playing through. But some of my friends found it to hard to keep up with.

It is really awesome. But I am seeing to many people lose interest all of a sudden.

Another thought also comes to mind that the current AI being an obvious attempt to slow people down. Creates an illusion of a slower pace similar to Prophecies.

What should have breathed more life into Guild Wars. Merely irritated, & alienated quite a few players. It is the most loyal of us that continues to endeavor on. & most RPGs are overly dependent on their most loyal followers.

Ninna · Nov 30, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Hero

260$ US dollars is leaps and bounds from free

I paid as much or more too

but im sure there are plenty of people owning only 1 chapter and no extras

Cyril Aspect · Nov 30, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

I'm puzzled everytime these wonderful little "discussions" about the new AI crop up because I cna easily run away from monsters evne without a speed boost, in fact I have to fight far less monsters in many parts of nightfall and I've been using the same famring build since I got to the crystal desert in prophecies. Maybe I'm jsut really lucky but I have never seen the so called whackyness so is it really common?

also don't the same people get tired of posting in these threads evey time anyhting changes? I know I took a break from arguing with you guys for quite a few months because it began to seme silly, I think I'll go bakc to not posting soon considering the lack of informed non opinionated positions still present.

Zeph · Nov 30, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackest Rose

Of course we don't know the sales figures and I for one don't think it's representative anyway since I had preordered 2 copies of Nightfall BEFORE the AI update.
Chapter 4 sales will be very interesting...

You point out something very important. The fact that this AI update came 2 days before NF release speaks volumes I think. If they had released the AI update 2 weeks before NF then I think a lot of players would have cancelled their pre-order. But 2 days is a bit short notice because a lot of copies had shipped by then. Plus they probably expected people to be too busy playing NF to kick up much of a stink about the update so 2 days before probably seemed the 'best' time for them.

I pre-ordered both factions and nightfall but it's very doubtfull I will pre-order chapter 4. I think I will wait until I read what others have to say first.

Apharot · Nov 30, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Hero

Not sure what your talking bout
2 accounts chap1- 100$
1 Factions account-50$
1 NF CE edition-70$
4 character slots because storage system in GW completly sucs-40$

260$ US dollars is leaps and bounds from free

I've got NF, Factions, and Prophecies. 8 character slots, plus the storage, and then the storage upgrade that has the extra storage just for the upgrades. I didn't pay anywhere near $260 USD. About $120 if each game cost $40. So $120 = 8 character slots. Even if I did pay $260, how much does one year of WoW, or Everquest cost?

Blackest Rose · Nov 30, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apharot

I'm amazed at the lack of maturity I'm seeing in a lot of posts here. You pay, what, $40 for a game and play for free after that? How much is a WoW account? How much was Asheron's call per month? Everquest? You pay $40, get way the heck more than you would for $40 bucks worth of everquest time, etc. So the game is a little flawed. I'll remind you that you're playing for free. So they are fighting farmers. Good, I say! Fight the runners that are running low levels to places they can't get on their own. Seriously, quit whinning about something you are basically getting for free. While I'm at it, the person who said it's in Anet's best interest to get you off the server...least thought out post ever. Doing that would kill them, as no one would come to play.

Seriously, let's put a little thought into things before we fly off the handle.

Apharot - I own 2 accounts and have purchased each of the chapters some with collectors editions.
I won't bother doing the math for you but I have invested a hefty chunk of money into this game and until the AI update I was getting great value.
Now not only have they killed my value in my preorders of Nightfall but also Factions and Prophecies PVE too.

They've turned my investment into crap overnight.
My value went to zero with the AI update as I hate playing the game in it's current incarnation.

I am not a farmer - played every class, a lot of my toons have protector titles and I do nearly all if not all the quests.

I've paid enough money for GW to fund WOW for quite a while if I chose to - but I actually don't like WOW even though I own it.
Saying that you can play for free is not enough reason to accept a major game change which ruins it AND PREVIOUS CHAPTERS for many people.

I've had 3/4 weeks of thought and guess what - I still feel the same.
Whenever I give NF a go - I play for an hour and end up more frustrated that I started with because of the AI update. Why should I play something with frustrates me now when it didn't previously...

Myria · Nov 30, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackest Rose

I would have thought that it was in Anet's interest to attract as many players as possible to the game.

In the gross, a given, but not all customers are equally desirable. On one end of the scale you have those that buy the game and never play more than an hour or three (my sister did exactly this, and I doubt she's the only one by a long shot), if even that, and on the other there are those that buy the game and play for literally thousands of hours (like, well, a lot of us here on this forum). It is in Anet/NCsoft's best interest to minimize the latter and maximize the former whilst catering to the vast bulk who are going to be somewhere in between.

Several eons ago I used to work with a guy who was a big believer in the Pareto principle. Applied here, it would suggest that 80% of resources are likely being used by 20% of customers. While I have no way of knowing for sure if that's the case, it would surprise me greatly if things weren't in that ballpark. In most businesses you simply have to tolerate that because invariably that 20% are also your best, most lucrative customers. For better or ill, in the GW model that is most definitely not the case. Anything they can do to minimize or eleminate that 20%, without significantly impacting the other 80%, it is strongly in their best interest to do so.

Quote:

The only way I could see the AI update working in Anets favor is if they have worked out that they will attract/keep more players that they have currently by changing the AI to what we have today rather than leave it the way it was.

I doubt the average player knows or cares about the AI changes, it just doesn't impact them. For that matter, I am not an average player, I doubt anyone reading this is, and while I certainly have noticed the AI changes and consider the AI to be badly broken, it doesn't really impact my gameplay all that much, aside from making the game easier and there being a substantial increase in "WTF?" moments.

The people the AI changes impact the most are not the 80%, the average players who probably barely notice or care, but instead the 20%, who most definitely notice and care. It makes much more sense to me that such is the intent, rather than thinking the AI changes as yet another inefectual swipe at bot farmers that just happens to render regular player's farming and, to a lesser extent, standard playing tactics a tedious nightmare.

Young Hero · Nov 30, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apharot

I've got NF, Factions, and Prophecies. 8 character slots, plus the storage, and then the storage upgrade that has the extra storage just for the upgrades. I didn't pay anywhere near $260 USD. About $120 if each game cost $40. So $120 = 8 character slots. Even if I did pay $260, how much does one year of WoW, or Everquest cost?

WoW is 20$ for game and around 13$ month to play- cheap

Blackest Rose · Nov 30, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myria

On one end of the scale you have those that buy the game and never play more than an hour or three (my sister did exactly this, and I doubt she's the only one by a long shot), if even that, and on the other there are those that buy the game and play for literally thousands of hours (like, well, a lot of us here on this forum). It is in Anet/NCsoft's best interest to minimize the latter and maximize the former whilst catering to the vast bulk who are going to be somewhere in between.
.

Except it's highly likely that your sister didn't buy all chapters, and have 2 accounts with collectors editions.
I would probably agree with the principle of 80-20 split between small-time players and big-time players, but it's entirely possible that that 20% of people account for far more that 20% of revenue given they're the ones most heavily invested in the game.

I'm one of the 20% but they've lost me going forward.
You could look at it like the "take your money and run" attitude. They have my money for all the previous chapters but....
No more double collectors editions of chapter 4,5,6 and probably not even GW2.
You just won't see an immediate impact as it's not pay to play.
If this happened in something like WOW cancelled subscriptions would be an immediate indicator.

Still their choice. I'm in the lucky position that I can afford to buy a bad game now and again (yes I view NF as a bad game with the AI update associated with it). No biggie but they won't get me to shell out again in a hurry...

Apharot · Nov 30, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackest Rose

Apharot - I own 2 accounts and have purchased each of the chapters some with collectors editions.
I won't bother doing the math for you but I have invested a hefty chunk of money into this game and until the AI update I was getting great value.
Now not only have they killed my value in my preorders of Nightfall but also Factions and Prophecies PVE too.

They've turned my investment into crap overnight.
My value went to zero with the AI update as I hate playing the game in it's current incarnation.

I am not a farmer - played every class, a lot of my toons have protector titles and I do nearly all if not all the quests.

I've paid enough money for GW to fund WOW for quite a while if I chose to - but I actually don't like WOW even though I own it.
Saying that you can play for free is not enough reason to accept a major game change which ruins it AND PREVIOUS CHAPTERS for many people.

I've had 3/4 weeks of thought and guess what - I still feel the same.
Whenever I give NF a go - I play for an hour and end up more frustrated that I started with because of the AI update. Why should I play something with frustrates me now when it didn't previously...

Well, maybe I'm just not understanding. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'm just not seeing any of the issues that you guys are talking about. I'm able to make money, though yes, I've noticed a decline in it, but not enough to get overly upset about. I've not noticed the big deal with the AI as far as them being smart enough to get out of the way, that just makes sense. Now, I'm an old school RPer. In my thirties and still maintain a mud I've run for 10 years now, going on 11 in march. Maybe I'm just seeing things differently than you, maybe I'm just use to the scraping for funds. But I really, honestly, do not see any of the issues or problems that everyone is talking about and complaining about.

Apharot · Nov 30, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Hero

WoW is 20$ for game and around 13$ month to play- cheap

Why is it $20 a game? Because you shell out $156 a year to play. That's one year, and WoW sucks. Let's say that NF costs $40. You purchase NF...$40....for the entire life of it. That's a major difference in price.

Young Hero · Nov 30, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apharot

Why is it $20 a game? Because you shell out $156 a year to play. That's one year, and WoW sucks. Let's say that NF costs $40. You purchase NF...$40....for the entire life of it. That's a major difference in price.

I dont currently play WoW and never have but 13$ a month is reasonable when compared to the hidden fees of GW-aka pack mules and having all chapters for access to all skills.Neccessary buys if you want the most out of the game

Elruid · Nov 30, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

I agree with much that has been said in this thread. I'm awaiting the new patch that has been said to be coming out tomorrow to also introduce a new update to this AI.

Apharot · Nov 30, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elruid

I agree with much that has been said in this thread. I'm awaiting the new patch that has been said to be coming out tomorrow to also introduce a new update to this AI.

Yeah, we'll see what that will do, but it's going to probably make some happy, make others more angry.

Apharot · Nov 30, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Hero

I dont currently play WoW and never have but 13$ a month is reasonable when compared to the hidden fees of GW-aka pack mules and having all chapters for access to all skills.Neccessary buys if you want the most out of the game

That is a matter of want, not need. I do fine with just Prophecies, NF and factions

PersephoneSaturna · Nov 30, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I love how some people expects to pay for a game and pay more to actually play the game and thinks that is the norm. Those people are the reason why WoW is Blizzard's money tree and the subscription fee model is so prevalent for major MMO type games.

WoW may be cheaper today, but when it was first released the price tag was well above, if not on par, with a full fledged game without subscription fees. We'll see how much the expansion will cost.

As for me, one of the reasons I support GW is because I like their economic model and the game. I hope that with GW's success, more MMOs will choose Arena.net's economic model.

WLlama · Nov 30, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Ok...so we have WoW at current pricing:
$20 Initial Investment
$13/Month = $156/Year (After the 1-month included in box)

And GW original pricing (given 1-year Proph and 6-month Factions/NightFall)
$40 + $40 + $40 = $120/2-Year = $60/Year
If you want CE:
$70 + $70 + $70 = $210/2-Year = $105/Year

Hmmm...I still don't see how these cost arguments work out to be in favor of WoW. Plus, you aren't required to buy new chapters, you can get discounted PvP packs for the unlocks, and most of the chapters can be found on sale for < $40 just like WoW has gone from $49.99 -> $20 over time.

On a side note, even with 2 accounts on original pricing of CEs you only exceed WoW by $100 per year and you can play on two computers (or with two people) at the same time (a feat that would double the cost of your WoW too. Thus GW is a "savings" of $218...and that's not counting the release of Burning Crusade).

Eclair · Nov 30, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Can anybody sum up exactly what's wrong with the AI as of this moment?

I've read most of the earlier pages of the thread (while I was still on N00b Island). However, I've finished the game with one char already and is in the process of doing it with another character. I haven't really noticed anything particularly annoying about the AI (except for Corsair Bosuns, they seem to run a lot).

I've henched/heroed through most of the game, and found nothing too particularly aggravating.