Curse

Antheus · Dec 09, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Anyone who's complaining about LB or sunspear points has simply found an excuse through which they can finally express the fact they are playing the wrong game.

The "grind" is simply not an issue. It's not. As anyone and everyone will give you an exact breakdown of not only how you get these points as you progress through the story, but also by all acounts from the high-end areas, these aren't required.

Anyone quoting "grind" has finally found a scape goat that resonates in public. After all, everyone associates MMOs with grind, so everyone comes in and agrees with you. Except, there simply is no grind.

So rather than bringing up the same old tired reason, find out what it is that's really bothering you.

Refusing to change builds, and agro management are good indications of general direction of why you dislike of the game. Anyone playing a melee character should be intimately familiar with pulling and agro management well before the end missions.

Maria The Princess · Dec 09, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

i can say im burntout after taking my ranger and monk through.

my solution? i just made a rit and playing through factions (which is totaly diffrent)

Addition to post:

if you dont like to change builds then maby GW is not really for you? cuz in ANY campaign you HAVE to adjust your builds depending on area or the mission. this is why you have so many skills availble

unienaule · Dec 09, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Time to put in my 2 cents. I think the Dervish is really not all that great of a class. It seems like a pretty awesome idea, until you actually start playing it and realize it's basically a specialized warrior with really high damage per hit and a really low rate of hits. I know people might argue that it has enchants and gets back health and energy blah blah blah, but that's just its way of compensating for the 70AL.

As for the comment that "it's a fact that warriors have to stay in the backlines in nightfall pve," um, wtf? I've farmed thousands of lightbringer points, beat the game, etc, with Savio (the supermod warrior, not the minipet) and Koss in my party, and they pretty much own face. Bring things to slow down/knock down enemies or speed yourself up if you really see it as a problem, but I ran a R/W hammer build for a long time in Nightfall and I don't remember having any real problems like you're describing. Then again, I really like to take knockdowns, and Savio brings Shock. You should try that if you're not already.

lakeland · Dec 09, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I was burned out after playing through with my dervish. Please bring back running, k? Thx.

Deleet · Dec 09, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Yeah, bringing running back, would make it a lot more rewarding. I don't wan to grind through the campaign again, just to play DoA with my necromancer.

King's Spectre · Dec 09, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I would *love* it if they'd open up the crystal desert - desolation connection, once you've won the game with your first character. It would be a nice perk for owning both games. You'd need a "get a wurm" mission at that end, of course.

Anyway, I was a little burnt out after the first character and daunted by the idea of having to get the others through. I've found that joining pugs actually makes it more fun, even when I could do it more easily with heros.

*Darcy* · Dec 09, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

I agree with Unienaule about the Dervish and that might have been your problem. This prof is touted as a melee character, but I don't find mine as useful as a warrior. I realize that it is partly the new AI (drawing aggro impossible), but its more like someone building a strange primary/secondary combo that doesn't really work well together. They've designed a melee/magic-user that is not that great at either and with the lower armor can overextend a monk very quickly.

But take some of your characters out and do other things with them (I also can't believe that suggestion to casually delete them) for a while, until the bad taste is gone.

Then if you still want to bring all your characters through, try with your warrior using a hammer build. According to most forum comments, this is the way to go in Nightfall. I can't comment on the assassin because I've never had one except in Factions preview.

Cherrie · Dec 09, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Anyone quoting "grind" has finally found a scape goat that resonates in public. After all, everyone associates MMOs with grind, so everyone comes in and agrees with you. Except, there simply is no grind.

Grind.. well... I'm afraid it is finding it's way into GW, because of the new options - farming actually begins to reward you in things that make a difference (Titles affecting gameplay): you don't need Lightbringer title to proceed through the game, but having it makes gameplay easier and your character more desirable in some areas; and having high treasure/wisdom title makes you more likely to gain more gold in some situations; hence: farming is good. And farm = grind for me.

Besides, I can't call DoA anything else than grind (the Truth thingie worth 100 gems? eeek.... Razah - hero without a counterpart - woth 4 hard-to-gain gems? Majon eeek.... Quest 2h+ long? annother major eeek).

Anyways back to the topic - guess you've burned yourself out. I dont think it's Nightfall's fault: from what you say it seems you are playing GW for quite a time - i guess the game simply lost its freshness for you. Take a break, do something else, maybe youll come back. Despite the farm/grind alert that keeps beeping in my mind, I myself find Nightfall the best chapter so far - gameplay wise, aesthetic-wise I preffered Factions.

Khanoute · Dec 09, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

I do agree with the OP : Nightfall has like no replay value at all. Took two chars through the game, got my paragon up to the Torment and didn't feel like playing anymore.
I had no problem bringing 6 chars through Prophecies and 9 chars through Factions, the fun was always there.

I blame :

- artificially long missions without real challenge, most of them being about luring/killing. Where's the adrenaline? Raisu, Vizunah, Gyala, THK offered more action than all NF missions together.
- awfully slow rythm (thanksfully, they got rid of the 2,5K Sunspear Points requirement for the foreign chars...)
- lack of interesting landscapes to explore : jungle desert -> dusty desert -> desert with blue carpets -> yellow sulfurous desert -> dark gloomy desert of doom (worst area design ever, even more than the Fire Islands)
- heroes and their impact on GW players' behaviour

Dalimoor_Kalkire · Dec 09, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

I don't think Nightfall itself was the cause for me getting bored with it, as much as it was doing the whole linear campaign thing again. I took four characters through Prophecies, four through Factions, and one through Nightfall. Why? I'm sick of the repetitive nature of it.

I made a Dervish too and wasn't all that impressed either. The game it just too restrictive. The areas, after a while, aren't really as big as you thought they were.

Zeek Aran · Dec 09, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

And then crippling was invented...

Isn't that a skill you automatically get with a Dervish when you start out?

lacasner · Dec 09, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalimoor_Kalkire

I don't think Nightfall itself was the cause for me getting bored with it, as much as it was doing the whole linear campaign thing again. I took four characters through Prophecies, four through Factions, and one through Nightfall. Why? I'm sick of the repetitive nature of it.

I made a Dervish too and wasn't all that impressed either. The game it just too restrictive. The areas, after a while, aren't really as big as you thought they were

My friend, the answer is a monthly fee..

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10088269

I think this is it, people can choose to accept it or not.

Avarre · Dec 09, 2006, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherrie

Grind.. well... I'm afraid it is finding it's way into GW, because of the new options - farming actually begins to reward you in things that make a difference (Titles affecting gameplay): you don't need Lightbringer title to proceed through the game, but having it makes gameplay easier and your character more desirable in some areas; and having high treasure/wisdom title makes you more likely to gain more gold in some situations; hence: farming is good. And farm = grind for me.

Besides, I can't call DoA anything else than grind (the Truth thingie worth 100 gems? eeek.... Razah - hero without a counterpart - woth 4 hard-to-gain gems? Majon eeek.... Quest 2h+ long? annother major eeek).

Once again, there is a difference between implemented optional grind and neccessary grind. There is absolutely nothing in your post that is required to play the game. As was said - declaring GW a 'grind game' because there are channels for those who wish to be able to do so is scapegoating.

Theus · Dec 09, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I think it really has alot to do with the addition of Domain of Anguish,and the fact that its a failure in the view of the whole moral of Guildwars.

I was completely underwhelmed at the fact that:

A)It was simply so frustrating that I couldn't enjoy it
B)I need to find 100 Gems to get a "Armor of Truth"(?) just to get a 15^50% weapon.I wouldn't mind this,if it wasnt for the fact that the drop at a rate of oh..1 for every 3 or 4 hours?
C)The fact that completeing parts of the quests themselves require around 2-4 hours,not including the time it may take to form said group.

Thats what really killed my interest in Nightfall.I was waiting on DoA,and was completely "Anguished" at the fact that they made the area so difficult I derived no pleasure from attempting such quests.

lacasner · Dec 09, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Grind is a relative word...it has hard to distinguish what is optional and what is necessary. Guild wars is a grind, more than anything, in the sense that it forces one type of gameplay, and that is fight fight fight, accept mission reward, fight fight fight, accept reward, and repeat with new character.

aron searle · Dec 09, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Heros killed miltiplayer

Farming is not like it was in the old days (you can argue its now better, but alot of people liked it way back when)

Running was killed when lots of people want to run (i think its stupid running was stopped because a few stuck up peple called it "cheating" and a few stupid people got run, and couldnt see it was a shortcut and would leave them "lost").

Factions could get away with not having running because it was easy to rush trhough it, and level quickly (other than the 10k faction quests), nightfall is slower paced, so it becomes so much more painfully obvios.

Its far far far far to easy untill you hit the end game.

Those are my issues with nightfall

Bring back running, make some missions harder and require your team to split (encouraging human teams), and for gods sake stop making skil aquisition so painfully slow.

baddog992 · Dec 09, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

A monthly fee to play a game that was originaly designed around being free online play?
Thanks but no thanks. Pay to play and I wouldnt bother with guild wars, Wow is already out there, do we realy need GW to be another Wow? Oh and I dont accept it. There are a ton of online role playing games that already charge money, not needing a fee to play online makes GW unique without that feature GW losses a lot of its uniqeness.

cooljelly · Dec 09, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Well, I remember there is a thread in the dervish section describing the dervish's ability to tank. I think it started by someone who compared dervish with assassin. Anyways, take a look at that post, if you have doubts in dervish's ability to 'tank'.
As for low rate of hitting, consider the attack speed boost skills, such as heart of fury, and the ability to hit multiple targets, with attacks, and attack skills. The attack rate of scythe in fact just follows spear, same as hammer.

Dervish is a good class both in pve and pvp. The skills will indeed need some change from area to area. I found that in the early missions, I use wind prayer more often than earth prayer, and in the late missions, I use earth prayer instead of wind prayer to efficiently tank the mob.

Nightfall's pve part seems to be alright for me. The introduction of hero does make things a lot easier. The chapter itself is not really easy compared to the other two. There are a lot of interesting little things that increase the replay value of the game, such as challenge missions. My friend, a paragon, and I, the dervish, really enjoyed Dajkah Inlet, and once played just that mission for two days over more than 10 hours (we are current the 2 man team on the 3rd place all time best in that mission

).

Loviatar · Dec 09, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

Heros killed miltiplayer

completely wrong.

the rotten community killed almost anybody who wanted to group at the start.

people are not saying (except for a few)

*OMG I AM FORCED TO TAKE A HERO*

most people are saying with their actions

*THANK YOU ANET FOR MY HEROES AND GIVE ME MORE OF THEM*

Quote:

Farming is not like it was in the old days (you can argue its now better, but alot of people liked it way back when)

only the goldbot farmers

i remember a post after the Riverside nerf lamenting that done right you could get 50 runes per hour there when any rune had value.

fix exploits equals goldbot/farmerbot anger

lacasner · Dec 09, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Proof perhaps, I think you are using your special case to encompass a big population of people