Curse

_Anubis_ · Dec 11, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro-Monk

Unless Anet makes some changes in Nightfall, I won't be buying the next chapter.

It's too bad that Anet has chosen to depart from the formula that initally made the PvE side of the game such a success. Low lag, doable missions or quests, and lack of "grinding" was what attracted many to Prophecies. As one progressed through the game and leveled their character, each area presented the appropriate challenge for the average player. As would be expected, some players found ways to "exploit" the game while others tried to "shortcut" it. In both instances there came cries of the game being "too easy" on the one hand and "too hard" on the other.

Unfortunately, both Factions and Nightfall (which in themselves had great potential to carry on the original forumla) fell victim to Anet's attempt to "correct" perceived problems. Factions introduced fast leveling, a push towards PvP (with faction points and alliances), and the attempts to thwart exploits. As a result it also introduced more lag, a much greater degree of difficulty for the average player, grinding, and a total failure to stop exploits. It also did little to enhance the PvP portion of the game. Nightfall, it appears, has been given over to those that are the "hardcore" GW players (many of whom are the very exploiters that Anet tries so hard to thwart). It has tremendously increased lag (for a great many if you monitor chat much), become far too difficult for the average player, and introduced "grinding" as part of the game.

What Anet must realize is that fansite forums, especially this one, does not necessarily represent the vast number of average players. In fact, this fansite is actually responsible for promoting many of the "ills' that Anet seemingly wishes to correct. Many, if not most, exploits have their beginnings these very forums. It is not difficult to read about how "easy" it is to circumvent any part of the game, by the "regular" posters in these forums. In fact, there is a great deal of "bragging rights" obtained through announcing how one has found some way too gain an unfair avantage over other players through exploiting some aspect of the game. In many cases, these are the same players that complain about how the game is too easy!

Anet should make every attempt to return the game to it's original formula. Attempting to stop exploiters and cater to the "hardcore" GW players has only made the game far less enjoyable for most players. There are still those that are exploiting portions of the game, and the "hardcore" GW players are still not placated. Nightfall is an exercise in frustration for the average player. Rather than rely on fansite forums, have the GM's monitor chat and even engage in some dialog with players. I'm sure they would find that many long time GW players are sorely disappointed with the state of the game. Please, make the game"doable" for the average player, minimize the grinding, and make GW fun again.

Bravo! You're my man.
I fully agree.
Why I'm not planning to buy next chapter? Because of few things, very essencial as for me:

1) The place.
What would be now? Wild West with John Wayne? Pls also take care of Zorro and Dalton Bros. Or maybe Persia? Yest, flying carpets, "Prince of Persia" running in the backside. But don't forget about Darth Saddam. He may have been the final boss indeed. What else could we get? Artcica? Yes, penguin quest for glory and pride. Voila.

My point is, that, as I guess, most of the total players feel like Prophecies was the best of the best, not counting Pre-Searing as the most interesting land. The tendencies of ANET tremendously go down. As I watched in the DVD bonus Nightfall movie. They thought it would be logical to move the action concerning the sand desert. Ok. There would be thousands of ideas. Sand people. Some scary motives and interesting indeed. Sitches etc. What did we get? Africa. In worst plate. No mystery. No voodoo or similar. I was only glancing at the characters in the cities. They do normally look like HIPHOP stars. Only miss big gold bracelets and chains with big $ sign on the chest.

Cantha wasn't as good as Prophecies world. But the Echovald Forest (didn't miss the name?) was nice to see. And fantastic frozen sea. Perfect.
Apparently there was nothing in NF making it feel better (alike above locations making Factions feel better).

The only big change was heroes. With lots of bugs in it. But they are, good, that something was to be done correct. WAS TO.

2) Skills
The skills for the new characters look fine. And do the job.
But about the 'old' or 'previous' characters? Most of the skills are funny.
And if good and propper skills appear, they're nerfed month later.
So to get skills like "Make me an ice-cream enchantment, that the world will be pink-filtered for 11-15 seconds, and this enchantment will cause nervous exhaustion"? No way, for this I will not give a penny!

3) Characters
When Factions appeared, the new Assassin sounded "cool, great, revelation". During the game it appeared, that taking it as second profession for monk or warrior makes You use 3 skills in total.
Ritualist? Please try making mission with them, like Weh No Su or similar.
I have brave mood last time, shouting to the microphone "After I resurrect You, make as many ghosts as You can. Maybe the enemy will concentrate on killing them instead of You".
The big crack was, as for me, Dervish. For the 1st week of playing. Nerfed. Now - just observe mission locations in NF. There are quite few people who wants to take Dervish into the team. Mostly, because Dervish is the team leader searching for players.
Who would we get now? Santa Claus? Octopuss? Or, better, get a profession called "Administration Worker". He would make monster commit a suicide by signing and preparing more and more papers needed for tax assumptions.

I could for sure add 3 points more. But what does it change? It is useless.

Generally, there will be completly no intence to buy anything more, until:

*ANET provides correct support, not the automatic responders and message killers after 24hrs
* ANET takes care of the bugs and suggestions to make the game work better, instead of thinking out new, mostly missed ideas for the new territories and chapters
* ANET makes patches and versions, which provide players with sort of "freedom" in exploring world, making quests and so. Because as for now, the only changes I see is NERF, LIMIT, DENY.

The rest - make Your own story.

generik · Dec 11, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Anubis_

Because as for now, the only changes I see is NERF, LIMIT, DENY.

The rest - make Your own story.

Quoted for truth.

The only progress I see is more and more restrictions on how the game is meant to be played. Hello Anet? Just because you throw in more and more restrictions doesn't mean we will have less to do, and hence buy your stupid expansions.

It will completely kill the franchise, that's all.

aohige · Dec 11, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

With all the whining on the difficulty of NF missions, I fear C4 is gonna take place in Domain of Happy Sunflowers where mobs that look like Hello Kitty tries to pelt you to death with flares, and bossess have no more HP than 480, and they all drop five greens.

BrotherKurupt · Dec 11, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

No, I will not be buying the next chapter. I am ashamed that I didn't read forum updates before buying Nightfall...the grind is unbelievable and my favorite area of play (Tombs aka Heroes' Ascent) has been removed from the game.

aohige · Dec 11, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

*blinks*

......say what, Grind?
What grind?
Please give me an example of a "grind" that's required.
Oh, and don't tell me "sunspear points", which you can obtain from doing important quests (such as building the base) and simply killing monsters on the way.

The Silver Star · Dec 11, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherKurupt

No, I will not be buying the next chapter. I am ashamed that I didn't read forum updates before buying Nightfall...the grind is unbelievable and my favorite area of play (Tombs aka Heroes' Ascent) has been removed from the game.

I agree completely. However i bought Nightfall and Factions for the skills for PvP but now PvP has been ruined.

Knightsaber Sith · Dec 11, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I'll be buying the next campaign. Bring on the next CE!!

Franco Power · Dec 11, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

if they fix HA I will buy it, but dont think theres much hope left for that place.

Jane Loves You · Dec 11, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

It's funny how the people that are saying they hate Guild Wars still post on one of the main fansites of said game, and by this I presume you all still do play gw, or why would you be posting on the forums?

I don't understand why most of you are bitching about gw, most of you have played for many months and are now bitching about how crap it was? What does that say about yourself, you played a shitty game for like 5 months and never quit? duhu... /applause

Fact is, gw is a pretty decent game, offering a wide range of things to do, and so what if Anet make some mistakes, I'd like to see you make a better game, so quit your bitching. If you hate it that much, quit the game and do the rest of us a favor and stop whining.

Though, I do agree with the change of tombs from 8v8 to 6v6. Anet, you really messed up there. I used to be a primary HA player, so it lowered my drive to play gw. Plus, now all you get is nubs + heroway + gheyy holding builds + searing flames. Ruined the game largely for me.

FalconDance · Dec 11, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Bought Prophecies and never once regretted it. Still, well over a year later, have yet another new character going through the Maguuma on his way to 'saving' Tyria from whatever or whomever is plaguing it

. I remember the first time I played through the storyline and sitting here saying "no way!" or "I knew it!" or (a few less than polite words) at certain cutscenes (no spoilers, just in case

). All three of the players in my household have finished Prophecies (and still have 'toons there.)

Bought Factions and for the most part seriously regret ever spending the money. I thought the can't-run-everywhere idea was superb, helping to relieve the "level 3 in the Grotto for 15K armor" syndrome (hey, high end armor should be a mark of achievement, not the sign of shortcuts and eBay gold!). But I loathed the neverending grind for faction, the 'Fed-X' quests, and the all around 'beef up the number of bad guys every two steps' method of 'challenge'. And why should all my characters have to declare allegience to the same faction to proceed? That part is just nuts (even though I know it's easier for coding)! None of us have finished Factions, and I'm the farthest having explored all the Echovald and Jade Sea as possible without declaring allegience.

So far, I'm the only one here with Nightfall. I absolutely adore it! The scenery brings to mind parts of Tyria without the urban filth and crowding of Kaineng. The storyline actually makes sense and isn't as disjointed as Factions. Even the heroes and henches have gotten smarter - no more Alesia or Sister Tai the tank wanna-bes charging into battle and dying! I don't see what the 'grind' is that so many are talking about. I obtain all the bounties in an area and then go exploring (and have gotten my titles with no trouble or grind whatsoever). AI hasn't really been a problem, either. At least not enough to rant and whine about. I'm currently playing 10 characters on my account and have NO trouble with storage (and yes, many of them have multiple sets of armor and weapons) so I'm unsure why everyone is sooooooo needy for more storage (although I wouldn't turn it down, either!).

The major problem I see with Nightfall so far is that it's way too easy to get sidetracked from a quest by exploration!

Cartographer = pleasure in Elona.

Will I buy chapter 4? IF it's not a return to Factions or Factions-like, yes. But you'll have to excuse me now - I have a lion to train in the Desolation.

A_Muppet · Dec 11, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27

I probably will.

I'm wondering what setting chapter 4 will be though-I mean, we've used asia, we've used Africa/middle east and prohpesies used... erm... well presearing used europe. Not a clue about the others...

I think one problem is, quite simply, eye candy. We saw what guildwars' engine could do with chapter 1's pre-searing. There were glimpses of it in other places-the wooded area around where rotscale now is for kryta, and the woodland at the bergan hotspring for the wintery forests. But the maguuma jungle was a perfect example of what is all wrong with areas in guildwars. It's supposed to be a jungle, which apparently means if the ground is green with the odd tree, it's a jungle.

_Anubis_ · Dec 11, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jane Loves You

It's funny how the people that are saying they hate Guild Wars still post on one of the main fansites of said game, and by this I presume you all still do play gw, or why would you be posting on the forums?

I don't understand why most of you are bitching about gw, most of you have played for many months and are now bitching about how crap it was? What does that say about yourself, you played a shitty game for like 5 months and never quit? duhu... /applause

Fact is, gw is a pretty decent game, offering a wide range of things to do, and so what if Anet make some mistakes, I'd like to see you make a better game, so quit your bitching. If you hate it that much, quit the game and do the rest of us a favor and stop whining.

Though, I do agree with the change of tombs from 8v8 to 6v6. Anet, you really RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up there. I used to be a primary HA player, so it lowered my drive to play gw. Plus, now all you get is nubs + heroway + gheyy holding builds + searing flames. Ruined the game largely for me.

First of all, if You write "bitching" You insult people here. Even if they write critics, they DO NOT offend ANET. And anyone else. Got it?

Well, it relies on what ANET is. A God blessed software company, who makes everything correct and non-correctable? Or a normal human-resource company, who can have good and bad ideas?

If You ask, if this kind of messages should be published here - I say YES. They should. This is a critics. Why does it exist? Because the world is built this way. This is because we WOULD LIKE to see some GOODS in the game WE DIDN'T LEAVE ARART YET. Got it?

I've never seen in EULA anything about agreement, that noone can suggest anything or write, that the idea was not as good as they impaled it to be.

Got this also? Or translation to Your native language is needed?

I just cannot and won't ever understand people offending others because they have different opinion....

Mahanaxar · Dec 11, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Hell no.

-PvE. Standard PvE is for tards, end-game is for nerds.
Constant nerf of any kind of farming. "What's there? People having FUN? NO WAI! Nerf it!"
New monster skins, landscapes and stuff, but the gameplay is always the same boring "go from point A to B and kill things on your way".
With rare exceptions like Tihark Orchard, wich get old very fast.
How cool, now we can choose different missions at some points of the story. Does my choice influence the story itself? Absolutely not.

Basically all the brand new features (except heroes) are just minor details.
I'm not gonna spend another 50$ for more recycled content.

-PvP. Hundreds of skills, and the vast majority of them is utter crap.
Again, balance=nerf. When they see something slightly imbalanced, it's nerf time. Why bothering with the hundreds of unused skills and give us more viable options? Just nerf the good ones to oblivion.
Every season is dominated by a handful of builds, originality is a crime.
HA is a joke.

For me, Prophecies was ok. Factions made me stop playing GW for months. I gave them a last chance with NF and they failed miserably (to me at least).
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, well, you get it.

I will be back on my good old BF2 in a couple months.

Yama Sutra · Dec 11, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

I will buy the next chapter , and the next , and the next etc etc

Love this game to death , so i will buy the next chaper(s)

X Cytherea X · Dec 11, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

You know what I think they should do for the next chapter? It might sound crazy, but I'm serious. ERASE Tyria, Cantha and Elona and create a totally NEW world! Yeah!

Your EXISTING characters are then thrown into RANDOM "starting towns" scattered across the planet with nothing but the clothes on their back and skillz they know. Oh yeah and they suffer from AMNESIA. You proceed from there, and based on your location experience a completely different story.

Anet can then continue to enrich and improve this world for 3 chapters, and when things start getting old, NUKE it again!

Cool idea huh?

bigroach · Dec 11, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

I think that with domain of anguish, they wanted to show that pve can be just as challenging as pvp.

One of the drawbacks to this is that DOA requires a team of competent people in order to be successful. Hench/Heroes won't be good enough, and neither will the majority of players.

So basically I think that a lot of people will find frustration with the pve endgame of nightfall. I think anet put too much faith in pve players. I think what these players really want is something easy. And I don't mean to bash pve or anything like that; I prefer pve.

Cow Tale · Dec 11, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

I will want to buy it, dunno if my gf will let me cause of money. but hopefuly ill be able to get my hands on it somehow. Gw is the best game ive played in awhile. i guess if anet were to screw it up too much i could always go back to counter strike and battlefield.

Vel · Dec 11, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigroach

I think that with domain of anguish, they wanted to show that pve can be just as challenging as pvp.

One of the drawbacks to this is that DOA requires a team of competent people in order to be successful. Hench/Heroes won't be good enough, and neither will the majority of players.

So basically I think that a lot of people will find frustration with the pve endgame of nightfall. I think anet put too much faith in pve players. I think what these players really want is something easy. And I don't mean to bash pve or anything like that; I prefer pve.

Will not buy until and unless ANET reworks the idea of new "grind to brag" theme of this franchise.

Also, in ref to earlier poster's comments:

Please do not tell me DoA is challenging. It is dark, extremely blunt and stretched to the point of being non-fun. Keeping 8 people at desk for 3-5 hours is not really a plausible idea of making it fun for those players. 8 people who can sit at their desks for a long time playing a video game are generally not termed "competent" but "addicted". On the starting day DoA had 6 districts and these days within a week even 1 district is hardly full. But, look at ToA (Temple of Ages). People still enjoy FoW or UW. People liked doing Deep mission aside from the whole "ferry" issue. But both elite missions suffered from the lack of substantial end mission rewards but, had nice chests and drops in them; had "attractive" and "non-retouched" unique skins; more in deep compared to Urgoz. In DoA, I found a non max dmg, req 11 purple jewel staff with no mods for a key that costed me 1500 gold. Considering farming is nerfed in GW World, how easy or feasible for a person to gather chunks of 1500 gold pieces to buy these keys?

In all honesty, I think GW will die it's natural death and some players will stick around on ANET because of the online community they created and friends they made.

Suggestions:

1. Please rework the textures of Cantha's termite infested towns. They LAG horrible.
2. Please add some hero templates that heros can use right instead of the player to micro manage them. Code basic tactical sequences so the heros can use the skills effectively; such as, if GoR and met shower present, cast GoR and then met shower.

3. Please add more servers from the profits you all made so that the lag dies. Rubberbanding again and again in GvGs and competitive plays are UNFUN. And this phenomenon is happening so much lately that it has become quite irritating.
4. Please stop calling slugfests such as DoA, "Elite Areas". There is nothing elite about them. A proper term may be "Carpal Tunnel Areas".
5. Change HA back to 8 People and stop hallskips and make it impossible for teams to reach halls without playing at least 1 of each type of maps. Fix the buggy map of sacred temples where people always seem to get stuck.
6. Clean out or redo graveyard of seldom-used or unused skills instead of introducing another set of new unbalanced skills that will be exploited by a few people and thus creating imbalance in the game. "Energizing Finale" was not the culprit in Nine Inch Veils[hex] or Slash Rank[DeeR] holding halls for an impossible number of times but, the culprit is the exploit of "hallskip". When nerfing a skill, please look at the circumstances that is causing the issue of the skill being abused and fix the circumstances. Now, guildwars has so many skills that it is actually quite painful to scroll through while knowing more than 60% of those skills will never be used. What the hell is "Song of Power"?
7. Fix the isles where NPCs bug out at VoD and never leave the base the way they should. Prime example, isle of meditation.
8. Increase storage. Stop the cheap trick of making people buy $9.99 slots. It is sickening.
9. Encourage Teamplay in the game. The sole reason people come online and dont play single player mode games is to interact. For the soloist-types, let them do whatever they want, don't encourage it. This leads to lonliness and boredom. No guild would like their guild leader to solo all the time b'coz he/she needs gold for 15k armor! Poor guild leader has no choice other than going and grabbing gold from "you know where". Rethink whole gold and cost of items thing.
10. Please put monitors in game so that we can keep "bashing other players" for no reason to a minimum. And also "crap-talk".

Overall, GW is becoming less and less fun everyday and a lot of my friends quit or moved on in last 6 months. It is time to think!

- Vel

Angelica · Dec 11, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

May be .... yes?

Okay, after reading 12 pages of posts

I'm not so sure if I'll be getting the next chapter, I'll just wait for a bit and see how it goes.

At the same time I'll be waiting and hoping for ... Diablo III ... If only it was true!

Young Hero · Dec 11, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I done with GW for now.No next chapter or the chapter after that.

Not terribly fond of the nerfs and tired of changing builds to something less effective.

Somewhere down the road I think Anet will finally get it right, hell they had it right with cha 1 and everything went downhill from there. But if you watch the making of NF DvD they really have some talented guys/gals working there.

Be interesting to see what they come up with in the future.