Curse

[DE] · Dec 02, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Although I absolutely love a challenge as well as figuring out new builds for both team and solo... this one is just to much. The damage output is ridiculous and not even bonds can save you! Now I know this place is suppose to be extremely hard but I think anet just went a little overboard on the hard part. I've played guild wars since it was released and this just blows my mind.

Durik Lakmor · Dec 02, 2006, 02:56 AM // 02:56

well the last group I was in managed to take out quite a few groups, I looted a Gemstone (Margonite) myself, things are going better as people are getting more used to it, btw Incoming + VwS works wonders

natuxatu · Dec 02, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

A challenge.. well yes it is.

Saying it's an area where you have to think and use strategy.. not really.

I'm not complaining that it's too hard. The damage output is too high or the number per group needs to be adjusted. I've gotten pretty far though the first quest before our group bit the dust. Even if I made it though I still think this needs adjusting.. especially with no henchmen which I would like to use.. and don't say they'd be useless.. my friend and I did alright and would have done better had we played it more.

Not saying it can't be hard... just saying it need to be adjusted. (And if I might add.. I was never one of the people who complained about the game being too easy

) I enjoyed it.

Antheus · Dec 02, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

Great, I see the prospect of cookie cutter teams and the impossibility of finding a group for several classes. Just what we were looking forward to!

What is cookie cutter?

Is balanced tanking/damage/healing cookie cutter?

Protection can be handled several ways. By paragon, ritualist, prot monk, warder, mesmer...

DPS can be dealt by many classes: barrage with various buffs, necro, elementalist, warriors, dervishes, assassins, mesmer...

Tanking is done by tanks. Warriors. Not much choice here.

Utility is handled by necros, mesmers, paragons.

And yes, I know I missed a few.

There's a difference between cookie cutter, gimmick and team build. ToPK b/p is gimmick. An overly specialized build that handles every single aspect of that area - and nothing more. Balanced team is not cookie cutter or gimmick. PvP Pre-mades are cookie cutter builds.

But other than that, play the role. Learn the role, and it's no longer cookie cutter. Saying an E/Mo should be able to do some area is nonsense. E/Mo is good for nothing. But an echo nuker with glyph of sacrifice rez is a role (dps + support). When you accept that, you find the game is really trivial.

Classes get denied access because they don't fulfill the role. Some spam I saw today was: "D/W with wild blow" and "D/R trapper". And no, the reason such builds don't work is not because they are dervish. Just because trappers seem to be popular there doesn't mean specing secondary to trapper makes you a good addition to the team. Ranger expertise is what makes a trapper, not traps.

But expecting to come into the toughest areas with your own non-gimmick, non-cookie cutter build (for example, apply poison, barrage beast master) will not get you any love. Yes, the build may work for you, but inevitably, when joining a group, it's about finding a sinergy between all classes. In case of b/p, this sinergy is surprising, but extremly effective.

Understand the roles, don't look at classes. The reason why some classes are undesirable in certain areas, is because they can't fulfill the role needed. But that's just the way GW is designed. There's always an alternative, and it's always possible to come up with a build that uses different aproach. But it will obviously not be the one thing everyone and their brother are running. But every class is completely viable in every area by design. Just not in PUGs.

Kelv · Dec 02, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

so, on an off note, does anyone know where to get the Armbrace of Truth from? Or what the Coffer of Whispers does?

CyberNigma · Dec 02, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

I think people will find that after a few weeks someone will find some good strategies to use in this area. Aftewards, then the difficulty will seem somewhat less. I remember that the Canthan elites seemed really difficult at first before people started figuring out what to do. Besides, having an uber difficult area at the end, after the game, assuming that it can eventually be beaten, is not such a bad idea. READ: so long as overcoming the difficulty pays off appropriately.

Give it a few weeks. It hasn't even been more than a few hours so far.

EDIT: I'll admit that the masses won't figure it out. It'll take some elite players to do so. While I was in I saw very few people in there even wearing Lightbringer, much less very many over lvl 1 or 2. Most of the ppl throwing out their skillsets didn't even have gaze. As a warrior I was the one sitting at the gate using Gaze while someone was prot'ing me. There needs to be some LB elitism initially in order to figure this stuff out. I'm only a Mighty LB so I'm sure I'll be left out of that, but there need to be some lv 6-8 groups going in there and scouting around. Leave the level 1's and 2's behind for a while until the area is scouted and there's some intel. It's not that hard to get to level 4 or so at least. Most of them don't realize that LB is more than just gaze, as it reduces dmg against you and increases ytour dmg against them. A full party of 6-8 LBs should be able to make their way through there and develop some better strategies for the rest of us...

aohige · Dec 02, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Antheus, give me an example of how an Assassin can be useful in City of Torc'qua, where you basically have a permanent Spirit Shackle on you where you lose energy every attack.

I'm sorry, but there are certain classess that would not be able to do anything in those areas, much less have a team that would let them in.

Neo Nugget · Dec 02, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

new build...i wonder what it is.*please debuff*

edit. i read it...i reduced razah at priest to 6k .

Dark Dragon · Dec 02, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

just read through the last 8 pages, took a while, i got passed the first 3/4 groups with a PUG, most people had lightbringers less than 4.

team setup:

1 War
1 Dervish
1 Mes
1 Necro
1 Ele - Me
3 Monks

Didn't have alot of comunication but it went quite well, until the war DP'ed out and then the group fell apart, echo/renewal nuking doesn't really help.

I ran a warding build, ward vs melee, ward v element and stones sheath work quite well.

And mesmers are helpful period.

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 02, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

I refuse to believe that AN would create a zone where only a certain team configuration could complete.

People just have'nt had the time to find the right builds and tactics. For an elite mission this is exactly how it's supposed to be.

Scutilla · Dec 02, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

So far not a single Elementalist or monk skill can keep the party alive, I have them all, I've tested many of them. No results.

Of course no single skill can keep the party alive. You have 64 skill slots on your team skill bar, you should be using more than one of them

Antheus · Dec 02, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by aohige

Antheus, give me an example of how an Assassin can be useful in City of Torc'qua, where you basically have a permanent Spirit Shackle on you where you lose energy every attack.

I'm sorry, but there are certain classess that would not be able to do anything in those areas, much less have a team that would let them in.

Assassins are not team players. This eliminates them from any form of organized team.

They are excellent at jumping a target, trying to kill it, then escaping. They aren't good at much else.

They make good runners, have great evasion stances, shadow form and similar, but they contribute nothing to the group, that another class can't do better.

Assassins were created for one purpose: To give players who like to gank a specific class. That's a pvp trait, where assassins work well just about everywhere - but excel in random group arenas.

Assassin is a melee form of a mesmer (sort of). Single target, no defense. devastating if left unchecked. But PvE doesn't require finesse - it requires brute force. Hence, mesmers and assassins are left out of PvE picture.

With Nightfall, the outlook for mesmer is slowly changing, since they make a useful addition to the team, only and only if they come prepared. Perhaps someone will find use for assassins as well. But most of the time, assassin, like mesmer, is best as secondary.

Jeff Highwind · Dec 02, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Anet made this place not Ranger friendly. Unless you are trapper, they got a permanent Shackles and Blurred Vision on ya, reducing a ranger to a crying sack of meat.

But I do enjoy this. So far I think the best idea is to have everyone LB Gaze with prot monks. You gotta time it right or the Ki Monks will just chuckle and heal people for 300.

Buns United · Dec 02, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quite surprised of all the rants I see (read through about 5 last pages).. There's been problems with 'not having the right build' around for ages, in even PvP. With that in mind, I'm hoping that people dying a bzillion times won't spoil their fun in this game. It's been around with the other areas aswell, you're still playing aren't you?

I, personally haven't had too much time to explore this elite area (I was to a cabaret show, bit tired from all of that now so I'll try again tomorrow). Got mauled ~10 times in the energy denial area. What was interesting though; I managed to keep aggro of all the melee creatures. Which is probably because of that recent update (same reason UW is again semi-possible with 55/ss). I suppose there's a reason to this *hint*. But instead of looking toward your backline for defense, it surprises me noone has seemed to have tried area of effect dazing/blinding. Might be a way to start a decent teambuild.

Hope minds will clear up a bit though, but for me it's been just another perfect day. And I'm confident to say the day I've conquered this area, will be the same.

~Good night.

scrinner · Dec 02, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

The Challenge... its ... AMAZING. But the first mob= wipe.. wow.. lol.

Most people I see are really really begging for 12 man.. but i doubt even that would help.... Well eventually somebody out there would figure it out.

Antheus · Dec 02, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scutilla

Of course no single skill can keep the party alive. You have 64 skill slots on your team skill bar, you should be using more than one of them

Ward against elements, "Stand your ground" and "Watch yourself" come to mind.

And suddenly, your 60 AL squishy non-removable 100+ armor. And those 300+ hits are suddenly just 120 hits. Add to that Incoming, and things start looking better. They fall into what a single LoD can outheal.

This is untested, but just from combination of ward and SyG the damage reduction is very noticable, as long as people stay inside the ward.

And perhaps Angelic bond for tanks, with healing seed on caster of AB, providing AoE healing for backline?

SziP · Dec 02, 2006, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Dragon

just read through the last 8 pages, took a while, i got passed the first 3/4 groups with a PUG, most people had lightbringers less than 4.

team setup:

1 War
1 Dervish
1 Mes
1 Necro
1 Ele - Me
3 Monks

Didn't have alot of comunication but it went quite well, until the war DP'ed out and then the group fell apart, echo/renewal nuking doesn't really help.

I ran a warding build, ward vs melee, ward v element and stones sheath work quite well.

And mesmers are helpful period.

Well until i read ur post i tought i will never be able to play with my mesmer down there. Mesmers are helpfull, heck ALL professions are helpfull if played right.

hinhtan · Dec 02, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Sin/Me echo Shadow Form to take out the most critical mobs such as monk, mesmer and ranger with Famine and QZ..
Mission complete get out of danger area and wait for SF to recharge while the rest of the team finish up the rest of the mobs.
Anet makes it up to Sin who has missed out elite missions in Faction.

xuemin · Dec 02, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

the new area vaguely reminds me of when the titan quests in Tyria first came out and people were saying how the ones starting around Ascalon area were near impossible with 4 people >.>

managed to do 2 and a half mobs before my team got raped; we had 3 monks (2 prot, 1 healer with hex/condition removals on each and prot spirit), a prot spirit rit, earth ele, nuker ele, tank and BiP. you just had to pull carefully and call targets and remember to kite as soon as you saw a melee margonite head your way >.>;;;

i believe it is possible to complete, just hard because we don't know what's coming next and where; had a semi-guild group, we cleared the mob and thought "thank god! finally got past the start" and went to move forward only for a another mob to pop up and wipe us...

Carth` · Dec 02, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Didn't read the thread, but I have to say, Anet have given us exactly what we needed!

I saw in the Domain of Anguish, the cookie cutter PUG builds failing. And then I saw something wonderful: people started to think for themselves! It was a miracle. People were looking at the skills they had available to them, and thinking "how can I counter this?".

I have to say I'm loving this new area. A real challenge, great fun.