Curse

Xiaxhou of Trinity · Dec 14, 2006, 02:48 AM // 02:48

In the higher levels of PvE, warriors do paper damage to monsters and creatures; with the new ai, there isn't any "tanking" to be done by a war, aggro is usually spread out now. So what can a warrior do now? A dervish has self heals and a larger energy pool to cast heals and such, and the sin, although wearing nothing but paper for armor, can still perform effectively by loading conditions on a target and running away so that monks can heal him. PvP of course is a different story. But unless you're farming, what can a warrior do?

kratic · Dec 14, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

warriors can still hold agro but not nearly as well as they used to. I say they add a Taunt or something to gain agro off the other players let it be one target or an aoe taunt. Just something to make a tank a usefull tank.

The Ernada · Dec 14, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Dude. I thought this was about wars. Not warriors. Abbreviations suck.

Redfeather1975 · Dec 14, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Coming from Everquest 2, I was completely shocked that Warriors had no taunt! I really was so used to having some kind of aggro control skill in other MMORPGs, I was boggled as to how Anet expected Warriors to tank throughout Guild Wars evolution.

I don't play a warrior, but I can see that an aggro control skill of some type, in the tactics line, would be very proper for the role a warrior usually plays.

Give em a taunt.

Gigashadow · Dec 14, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Taunt is really not a very fun game mechanic, I don't miss it.

Mr_T_bot · Dec 14, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Warriors could use an aggro shout. It is nearly possible to get aggro properly. I've tried it, it's absurd. Maybe just expanding the range of "None Shall Pass!" would suffice because I think aggro target should cycle while they are knocked down.

lyra_song · Dec 14, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

aggro control in this game involves cooperation of the WHOLE party.

Not just the tank, but the healers and damage dealers need to know where to go so that the tank gets the actual aggro and absorb all the damage.

Mylon · Dec 14, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Taunt is a stupid game mechanic which serves the sole purpose of making the enemies stupid as well. It's a skill designed entirely to make an enemy attack the _worst_ possible target. That it has become a common staple in many MMOs only goes to show how they cater to the lowest common denominator.

Carth` · Dec 14, 2006, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Warriors do paper damage? Hmm.

I don't know what to say. I consider Devona to be the best henchman because she seems to do the highest damage out of any of them, and she also survives the best, using only Healing Signet and her warrior armour.

I'm glad Anet put an end to this tanking nonsense, now warriors can go out there and slay some dragons, rather than stand there letting a dragon try to kill them while an elementalist does average damage using over 100 energy and filling half his bar with exhaustion.

Agyar · Dec 14, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

GW's system of aggro/hate is a bit strange after coming from WoW (which, I believe, has a system similar to that of EQ).

People seem to survive though, most of the time anyway.

Angel Netherborn · Dec 14, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Rant: the topic title is really very badly named...

Anyway, as for warriors having a difficult time tanking, well that's a good thing isn't it? I think I prefer having to keep an eye out for attackers and running or positioning more effectively. As opposed to standing there and cast spells while watching the mob try to take down the tank.

bluechestdude · Dec 14, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

yeh i played wow for a few weeks and the aggro system was way different to gw..i mean "threat" levels..but agreed gw should at least make an agro for a warrior or derv prof...some missions are just impossible because all the mobs attack ur monks and kill them and they drop the wars soon after..

Carth` · Dec 14, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluechestdude

some missions are just impossible because all the mobs attack ur monks and kill them and they drop the wars soon after..

Not if you play with good players. The problem isn't aggro how it currently is, the problem is how the aggro used to be. It made people complacent because everything would attack the warrior and they were rarely in danger. Hardly anybody in PvE kites, and the monks use awful builds that run out of energy very fast, and can't keep anyone except someone with high AL alive (aka cast Healing Breeze on the tank).

Thallandor · Dec 14, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

I agree, Warriors should have some sort of shout that causes aggro targeting eamples:

"Face me Corwards!": 5 adrenaline, for 10 seconds all enemies within ear shot attacks the target and gain 25%.....5% IAS. (Strength)

"I am your opponent!" 5 energy, for 20 seconds target enemy within earshot attacks the target and become Dazed for 1...5 seconds. (Tactics)

Edit: the only problem is that these aggro fixing skills would be that they are hard to adjust for PvP since it would likely be buggy or have limited use in PvP at all, which i suppose is one of the reason it has not been implemented thus far.

Avarre · Dec 14, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Stop running pure tank warriors, put attack skills on the bar along with some defensive shouts, and act as a warrior should - damage soak by running in first, defence buff from shouts, and high damage output to critical targets.

A warrior in PvE should be able to tank, but doesn't necessarily need to be a tank.

lg5000 · Dec 14, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

To the subject mentioned:

No, I don't think there is a need for War. I'm quite happy that we're not threatened by war in this country.. and oh... that's not what we were talking about... my mistake.

Lyphen · Dec 14, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

I've been running through Tyria with my brother, a warrior, and I haven't found many problems. He'll normaly run in first and positions the enemies around himself while he Triple Chop/Cyclone Axes them. A few times, a stray will make it back to us, but it isn't often.

Tanking in this game is mostly body-blocking, so I don't see how else to fix it other than learning to anticipate enemy movement.

Antheus · Dec 14, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyphen

I've been running through Tyria with my brother, a warrior, and I haven't found many problems. He'll normaly run in first and positions the enemies around himself while he Triple Chop/Cyclone Axes them. A few times, a stray will make it back to us, but it isn't often.

Tanking in this game is mostly body-blocking, so I don't see how else to fix it other than learning to anticipate enemy movement.

/cookie4U

This is why good warriors are hard to find. You don't just stand there and wait for mobs to come after you.

Engage them, predict their movement, position yourself, attack them, use shouts, KDs, even wards. Use terrain to your advantage.

But no matter what tank does, if you have moronic team, where casters are pulling, no ammount of tanking will help.

That said, there is need for good tanks in higher-end areas. There's lots of need. BUt unfortunately, the rest of the game is so easy there's no need for warriors to learn any of that.

And so, you get upset tanks that think endure pain is all they need to tank in DoA.

Russell.Crowe · Dec 14, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

ahahhaha, sorry but this topic is ridiculous, and to add on to what Avarre said:

any GOOD warrior can hold aggro just as effective as always (stay out of the damn warriors aggro circle until he has the aggro held, simple tactic and has always worked)... and as for the "paper" damage, have you ever played a decent warrior bar? Warriors do large single target damage which is extremely helpful when killing a group of enemies since a preferred target (i.e. a monk) will drop extremely quick with the warrior banging on it and the nukers bombing it. Plus, warriors have defensive shouts that aid the party tremendously (do you have any idea what a decent "Watch Yourself" does to a 60 armor character? How about what shields up does against areas with loads of rangers/assassins?). The fact is some sort of warrior is needed for most decent groups.

draxynnic · Dec 14, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

I agree, Warriors should have some sort of shout that causes aggro targeting eamples:

"Face me Corwards!": 5 adrenaline, for 10 seconds all enemies within ear shot attacks the target and gain 25%.....5% IAS. (Strength)

"I am your opponent!" 5 energy, for 20 seconds target enemy within earshot attacks the target and become Dazed for 5...0 seconds. (Tactics)

Edit: the only problem is that these aggro fixing skills would be that they are hard to adjust for PvP since it would likely be buggy or have limited use in PvP at all, which i suppose is one of the reason it has not been implemented thus far.

Nah. The whole point is that there aren't supposed to be skills that are only usable for PvE (well, maybe Sunspear Rebirth Signet and the Lightbringer skills, but they're deliberately unbalanced). Now, how much fun would it be in PvP to be forced to attack a given target because they have a Taunt skill?

Enticements work, however - for instance, you could have shouts that grant enemies penalties if they don't attack the shouter, and possibly benefits if they do (penalties and benefits that the AI might take into account when choosing targets) - which would be something that could conceivably work in PvP - most PvP players will probably know that giving in is to their detriment, and if balanced properly if could be enough of a lose-lose situation to present an interesting dilemma.