Curse

bug_out · Dec 19, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

I've had good and bad experiences in PUGs as well, and will normally give people the benefit of the doubt (mostly because after 8 - 10 hours at work I really don't want to micromanage heroes/henchies, I just want to get in and kill something) once. If they (the other PUG members) fail to have the least bit of a clue, it's heroway ftw.

taffette · Dec 19, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Last PUG I tried was going for the Sebelkeh mission - they died within 30 seconds the first time because no-one would listen to me when I told them they needed to defend the altar lol. I did give them the benefit of the doubt the second time, and to be fair they lasted maybe a minute longer. I gave up at that point

broodijzer · Dec 19, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

my last 2 pug experiences:
-started in the ruins of morah. killed varesh with ease, then did the next mission (shadow of fear? 1st real mission in RoT). fun and nice persons.
-consulate docks. lots of deaths and DP, but we still made it. I don't know how, but it was worth a /cheer. enjoyed it, even though our group sucked.

Moa Bird Cultist · Dec 19, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

My last two pug experiences were both immensely rewarding - last time was taking Krysten back to do Jokanur Diggings and grouping with some low level people. That was rewarding because of the glowing feeling you get when you know you've genuinely helped someone out. The time before that was Grand Court of Sebelkeh with Rena. After failing more than 15 times with a hench/hero group, (To put it simply, they just couldn't do enough damage fast enough,) the PuG I went with got masters on the second try. MM and SS ftw.

But I've had my bad experiences too. One that I'll always remember, is the occasion that I had gone back to do the mission that gets you to Denravi with Krysten. The group had a universal lack of understanding of the very basic mechanic of needing a healer and it took much protest from myself to convince them that a Lvl12 W/Mo with 20 energy and mending would not be A Good Idea (tm) for taking care of the healing. We got through the mission just fine, without a single death, even though only 2 or 3 of us actually knew what we were doing and the group leader had elected to go without a proper healer. So, yeah that was frustrating, but since it ended in success, rewarding, too.

I dont group much with PuG teams though. Never have done. To me, the prevalence of 'You Must Be Exactly What We Order You To Be' groups really puts me off. It's either them or people who don't have a clue. The middle ground - the decent PuG isn't as uncommon as some people suggest, but that, by no means, is suggesting that they are easy to find. For me, Guild/Alliance+Heroes is the way to go.

ShadowbaneX · Dec 19, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

I helped a guildie (Ranger) get through Iron Mines. Well, I was actually helping myself get through it as well. I was playing my Canthan monk that I hadn't actually gotten through that mission. We were joined by another guildie (MM) and then we grabbed a pug for the rest of it. We managed to get a monk that was good, although mostly prot. Then we got another ranger that seemed to think it was a good idea to run off and try to trap some mobs with Dust Trap. The other 3 were Tanks...by all that's holy some of them were prize idiots. One of them was running with a sword using nothing but Power Attack...I think he spammed his skill bar earlier and it was axe skills. The other two were hammer tanks, one of which was using charge as his elite.

I wasn't too interested in the bonus, but some of them wanted it, so we decided to do it...which was a real damned shame cause I had another guildie online that can run it, but hates the bonus with a fiery passion. So we slogged our way through the mission, randomly doubling back to cap Dwarven Battle Stance of all things, evntually losing one hammer tank. Then we get to the bonus split, but most of us needed to get infused. We tried to explain this to the other hammer tank, but he just got pissed off and left. So then we continue on slogging, get infused and finally manage to get the bonus by having both of the monks body block the Inquisitor cause we'd lost two of the tanks.

So, then we move up to finish the mission. We get to one of the bridges before the end and then the party just Charlie-Foxtrots. My guildies go down, then goes the 2nd monk. The Ranger is running off doing god-knows-what, I run for it and then the tank finally catches up. I heal his ass, and then he starts chasing around a Mursaat Monk. The ranger finally pulls his head out of his ass and comes help as well. So we've got the tank futile poking the Mursaat Monk with an FDS and power attack, the ranger doing, I can't remember what, and two White-Mantle Seekers pincushioning whatever they feel like and me trying to keep the lot of us from wiping.

Eventually the tank pins the Monk in place and beats him down, then we take the Seekers, but that aggros a Mursaat Necro. So while this is happening someone decides to run off and start resing dead people with ressurrect, so in addition to having to heal the party, I've got to keep these new people from getting chopped back down again...we somehow managed to get through this then worked our way up to Markis. Then the ranger bailed, he said something about looking for an elite, I guess it wasn't Barrage.

Still we had my guildies (ranger and mm), the tank and two monks and that was enough to finish the mission off. Still it was a harrowing & frustrating experience. Good thing I have short hair, otherwise I would have been tearing it out by the handfuls.

It wasn't all bad last night though. Before this happened though I took my Mesmer through Gate of Madness. This was a total pug, although it was well built. We had a dervish (party leader, Balt form), and a tank, so a solide front line. Backed up by a paragon and a ranger so decent support, sv necro, and myself, so good casters and two human monks (took a long, long time to find them though, but it was well worth it). I was playing solid interrupt build and only died once near the beginning when a roving mob pincered the group. After that we pulled the little trick of dodging the Shiro'ken, although another roving patrol ran into us, and then took out the Rifts. That went a little tricky, but we eventually cleared it. Then the ranger pulled Shiro and we went to work on him. Unfortunately I couldn't do much to him, other than wand him and fast cast res when someone dropped. Then we went down and kiting around, activated all the shrines, then took out the Lich for Masters...then just for fun we took out Abaddon, although that took 22 minutes. Wasn't the best group, but is was a hell of alot better then the pug I had later for Iron Mines.

SirShadowrunner · Dec 19, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

If your looking for entertainment pugs are great, if you want loyal followers
who will obey your every command go H & H (heroe's & henchies).
At least it seems like the missions in NF are more doable with H & H than
factions was, thanks for that, and since nost of them are not timed you
can take your time and do things anyway you want.

Seems the only mission you will really have a hard time getting masters
on with H & H is the Moddok Crevice mission where you need to stop two
runners at once.

Kityn · Dec 19, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I have been pugging since 1999. People have not changed at all. There will always be good ones and bad ones. Adapt or perish.

Daysy · Dec 19, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

When playing a monk, I like to have hero monks with me. Dunkoro is quicker at reacting than I am, and Tahlkora can use her mana to maintain enchantments so I don't have to use mine. What they can't do is anticipate, which is where the human comes in, for instance casting Healing Breeze on the one about to go lure the next batch of mobs. Usually I prefer to use my own hero monks, because as a monk I've captured elite skills which they use, and because I can direct them manually if necessary, for instance when doing a resurrection in a difficult spot.

geekling · Dec 19, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

As a contrast, I thought I'd share my last three experiences with PUGs.

Moddok Crevice. Wasn't planning on doing this mission, just yet even if it was the next one in the story line for my monk, just popped into the mission town to do the merchant thing etc.
Well there was two groups looking for monks as I went AFK to visit the little girls' room and put the kettle on. When I returned they were still there, although they seemed to have given up on fiding any monks. Instead they were actually chatting - about the lack of monks - but still seeing people using the local chat to well talk to each other made me so cheerful and filled with goodwill towards human kind that I decided to do a PUG for this mission.
And I would do it right now! Even if I'd not so much as had a peek on wiki to read up on what was to be expected in this mission. Took about 5 seconds to find a group, and after a couple mins of team chat saying hello to everyone and discussing the mission we were off.
This PUG was the PUG dreams are made off, a team leader that :gasp: lead the team! And a team that followed, doing exactly what was asked of them. We're talking about things like those runners, stopping just before getting to them, working out who goes for which runner to cripple them and even counting down to make sure they coordinate the attacks.
In a PUG!
Guild groups aren't even that coordinated and organised most of the time. (Well at least not the ones from my guild, but we do have fun and that counts for something.)

Next one, Grand Court of Sebelkeh, wasn't a full PUG as such. It was me, two other guys and heroes. No great wonder we couldn't fill a whole group as it was a weekday morning so the Euro districts were kind of abandoned.
I am sure many of the people in this thread would have left the group before we even got off the starting blocks. Took more than 10 mins trying to decide what heroes to take and who's heroes. As no one really wanted to take the lead and make a decision.
Though we missed masters with about 30 seconds. We had fun once we got going even if yeah, as indicated from the ditherering over heroes before the mission started we ran about like a bunch of headless chickens inside the mission too before getting our act together and working as a team. Even stuck around for a few mins after completing the mission before we broke up the party, just to have a little chat.
The most surprising bit is really that we didn't miss masters with more than we did.

The last one I will share with you. Was Blacktide den with my new character.
This is the one I'd lable as a stereotypical PUG from my experience.
Another one where it wasn't a full group. If I recall correctly the party make up was two paragons, two dervishes and one assassin ranging in level from 11 to 17, the rest heroes.
Half of them didn't know what the bonus even was, the other half knew you had to kill five monitors but wasn't sure of where all of them were. (Myself, I'll have to count myself to that second half. Know the aprox area they were in, but not 100% on exactly where in that area.)
But we muddled through and found them all one person leading to get to the ones they knew the location of then someone else showed the way to the ones they could remember the location of. It wasn't spectacularly organised, but then again it wasn't spectacularly disorganised either.
No one took off on their own, did anything downright stupid or even if we may have taken a wrong turn at one point we took it as a group. Shrugged off the misstakes that did happen and congratulated each other on the good bits.
In all it was an enjoyable experience, even if going in alone with just heroes and hench would have been quicker. (After checking on wiki to refresh my memory on the most effective path to find all of the bonus critters - of course.

)

Blackest Rose · Dec 19, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I'm really hoping that the LFG mechanism promised with help PUG's get better.

I hope it's across district based but still allows you to select professions and levels in some way.

I await eagerly.....

stamenflicker · Dec 19, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

So you're one of those impatient types. It's a good thing you stay out of PuG's. People who bail drive me crazy more than bad leaders.

Look, the leader:

a. Didn't fill the slots, and took only one monk-- a hero (lvl 18)
b. Didn't check with the team about their skills at all
c. Started the mission in spite of half the team saying to wait
d. When we zoned in proceeded toward the first mob

I'd say there was little need to be patient. You're comment is nothing more than a self-righteous attempt to categorize my experience in the light of your perceived status as a PvE player.

Quote:

Most likely I would've asked everyone to /resign and taken charge of forming the group myself.

Indeed you are more patient than me.

Quote:

If you're an experienced player at all (played the game more than 50 hours?) why would you join an obvious newbie leader's group anyway?

My post answers this question.

animeba · Dec 19, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

good PUGs are always hard to form. Since nightfall came out, many knowledgable people used Heroes and henchies to complete missions. With heroes, you can customize their skillbar. This allows you to bring important mission critical skills for a missions. When many "expert" players are using heroes, this leads to missions towns containing many "casual" players who might not fully understand what they are suppose to do.

If you are trying to start a PUG, I would strongly recommend reading the mission overview at guildwiki.org Doing so will greatly reduce the number of wipes and improve the gameplay experience for your team. For example, not knowing that you need to bring "Wild blow" on Shiro's "Battle Scar" greatly increases the chance that your team will wipe and then half your team leaving.

My most memoriable PUG experience for the last month would have to be the Dunes of Despair mission where you are required to keep the Ghostly Hero alive for 10min. I tried to complete the bonus with 2 different characters without using the teleport cheat. I asked for a monk to help me and 4 hero/henchies complete the mission. Hero/Henchies and I would kill everything while the monk would be responsible for healing the ghostly hero while I'm off killing the generals at the fort.

First time: with W/Mo lv13. There was a lonely lv13 w/mo asking for a group and no one was willing to take him. I saw him flash a tiger and figured he knew what he was doing, so I gave him a chance. He performed flawlessly. He let the ghostly hero get aggro and healed the hero through siege attacks. I completed bonus around 1min left and we finished the mission together.

Second time: with Mo/Me lv20. I figured with a lv20 monk, he should be able to heal the hero. He did fairly poorly. He tried to tank the forgotten sword & hammer, but died in less than 10secs. He didn't try to run or spam healing spells fast enough. (No protective spirit either) I still managed to complete the bonus around 1min left, but couldn't manage to get back to the hero in time. We failed with 6secs left because the monk couldn't stay alive for longer than 10secs to hold off 2 forgotten soliders that rushed at our hero around 30secs left.

My point: a PUGers with proper skillbar and experience is vastly superior to clueless players, and there are a lot of clueless ones in town.

ValaOfTheFens · Dec 19, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

My only successful PuG was at Vizunah Square. Well...it wasn't exactly a PuG. My team was Heros and Henchies but the other team was a French guildie team that actually knew what they were doing. Being a sort of Jack of All Trades Necro at the time I made Wells and raised Minions and the other guys were nice enough to rez me when I died.

Truthfully the only time I PuG is when guildies need help with missions. Ruins of Surmia seems to kill low level toons alot. *shrug*