Curse

freekedoutfish · Dec 23, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

I personally say that Rago's staff statistics are rubbish compared to (for instance) my fire wand and focus item.

Both of which can be attained from collectors with identical stats, but mine happen to be the greens version.

.................................................. .................................................. .

Rago's staff stats:

Energy +10
Fire damage: 11-22 (req. 9 Fire Magic)
Halves casting time of Fire Magic spells (Chance: 20%)
Halves skill recharge of spells (Chance: 20%)
Energy +5
Enchantments last 20% longer

.................................................. .................................................. .

My combination of Golden Boar Scepter and Tarlok's Flagon:

Golden Boar Scepter

Fire damage* 11-22 (Requires 9 Fire Magic)
Halves skill recharge of fire magic spells (Chance: 20%)
Energy +5 (while Health is above 50%)

Tarlok's Flagon

Energy +12 (req. 9 Energy Storage)
Energy +15
Energy regeneration -1
Health +30

Combined result

Fire damage 11-22 (Req 9 fire magic)
Halves skill recharge of fire magic (chance: 20%)
Energy (+27)-(+32)
Energy regen -1
Health +30

.................................................. .................................................. .

You loose:

Halves casting time of Fire Magic spells (Chance: 20%)
Enchantments last 20% longer

Something I feel isnt hugely important if you use the right spells.

And have to endure:

Energy regen -1

Again, not hugely important if you have energy management.

You gain alot of energy and extra health which Is just a good thing

.................................................. .................................................. .

Now im not un-experienced as an elemental having got him through all 3 campaigns with KOABD and being at 2 million experience.

I know that doesnt say much, but it does show ive been around a while and i have experiemented with different builds and weapons.

I feel the extra energy and health is a given.

I currently have my energy up to 112+ and hp at 515.

Which is quite impressive for an elemental. Something I wouldnt be able to do if I was using Rago's. Yes the -1 regen can be annoying at times, but its not crippling. And you hardly notice faster recharge and casting times.

.................................................. .................................................. .

I make this thread just to find opinions, because I was in one of the major capitals and saw a character spamming WTB Ragos for 60k.

I took it upon myself to wisp that person to offer advice and said its not worth it.

The responce from them was to spend 10 minutes spamming me with "noob".

I didnt respond except to tell him why I thought what I did and that I was just offering advice.

He continued.

He then continued to spam WTB in that city for ages.

Now this same person made the brag that he supposedly had 5 million experience, in between the noob spamming. I find it strange that a 5 million experienced player would choose a nice skin over blatenly improved stats.

An elemental is dependant on energy more then anything, and more health goes a long way.

.................................................. .................................................. .

My conclusion is that alot of players choose to play as elementals and dont put any thought into it and go for the supposedly best weapon they know of.

They dont think elementals take alot of work and are just dmg dealers and thick.

So they want something to look nice with.

So opinions please?

Which combination would you choose?

I do admit the staff has a nice skin... but so does my green combination. So skin isnt a huge agruement if youre being constructive about it.

Ideas?

Antheus · Dec 23, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Before talking about rubish, what kind of build are you running?

PvP? PvE? If so what, echo nuker? SF spammer? Something else?

20% enchant is nice for dual attunements.
+30? energy but -1 pip? A bit flaky on e-management. As SF spammer you shouldn't have problems unless your enchants get stripped. But loss of 1 pip will hurt you much more than those 30 energy.

Dual, triple, quad nuker? Mostly waste of skills. You'll need a bip here anyway, but where would you ever need so many nukes? Even echo is mostly unneeded.

For a SF/MS spammer, even for DoA, I usually run around 70-75 energy, some points in earth for wards, combined with GoLE and I have yet to run out of energy, even with reduced gain from GG due to running only 14 or 15 fire and without any help from BiP.

The greatest mistake too many make is thinking that large energy pool will solve all problems with eles. E-management > large pool.

But that said, I don't know what kind of build you're running. If it's exhaustion heavy, or you have a dedicated BiP on you, then it'll obviously work. But other than that, it's somewhat of an unjustified claim, since an item doesn't define build, it's the other way round.

Divinus Stella · Dec 23, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Energy regen -1 is absolute crap for general use, keeping it out all the time is just screweing your energy.
Ragos isnt perfect, but its good for certain builds, the enchanting mod is really useful for attunes, if you want the best gear for a fire nuker take 20/20 wand and 20/20 offhand as your default kit that way you will get a lot more damage out, have a 20% enchanting item like ragos to switch to while using attunes then have a high HP/AL set to change to when your under attack.

w00t! · Dec 23, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Most of the value of Rago's Staff is due to its rarity, pure and simple.

Device value = intrinsic value + lust factor

The intrinsic value of Rago's Staff is probably about 10k, given what it would take to get the collector's staff and mod it properly. The rest of the value is due to the difficulty in attaining the staff.

I have killed Rago at least 500 times, and his staff has dropped for me exactly twice. This is about what you would expect, given a 2% green drop rate and the fact that Rago can drop one of three different items. In fact, I think I've only seen it drop about 10 time amongst all of the people in all of the groups I've been in.

Rago's staff was also the first green fire staff, and at one time was worth north of 160k. This was back in the day when a perfect staff was very difficult to come by (and perfect mods were also very rare). If you have 2 mill exp, then you probably fondly remember those times.

Rago's is, and always will be, worth more than just the intrinsic value of the weapon due to it's rarity and the bragging rights associated with it. In fact, I would hazard that Rago's would command at least 25% more than an identical nightfalls green that would be more easily farmed.

getalifebud · Dec 23, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Well I find my collectors fire staff (good skin) with 20/20, energy+5 and armor+5, is close to ragos and a fraction of the price.

freekedoutfish · Dec 23, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Before talking about rubish, what kind of build are you running?

PvP? PvE? If so what, echo nuker? SF spammer? Something else?

20% enchant is nice for dual attunements.
+30? energy but -1 pip? A bit flaky on e-management. As SF spammer you shouldn't have problems unless your enchants get stripped. But loss of 1 pip will hurt you much more than those 30 energy.

Dual, triple, quad nuker? Mostly waste of skills. You'll need a bip here anyway, but where would you ever need so many nukes? Even echo is mostly unneeded.

For a SF/MS spammer, even for DoA, I usually run around 70-75 energy, some points in earth for wards, combined with GoLE and I have yet to run out of energy, even with reduced gain from GG due to running only 14 or 15 fire and without any help from BiP.

The greatest mistake too many make is thinking that large energy pool will solve all problems with eles. E-management > large pool.

But that said, I don't know what kind of build you're running. If it's exhaustion heavy, or you have a dedicated BiP on you, then it'll obviously work. But other than that, it's somewhat of an unjustified claim, since an item doesn't define build, it's the other way round.

Its staggering that even when I post an non-aggressive post, which was purely asking opinions, someone will still resort to saying "your talking rubbish" in such a direct manor.

My build varies actually. Mostly its nuker, but at times it varies and not in any particular way.

Depends if I need to protect against being nocked over, interupted, turn fire dmg into cold dmg, protect my team with wards, cast degen etc etc etc.

I dont put alot of faith in pre-determined builds. I tend to use what ever I feel works, and its usually a combination.

Eitherway, I can honestly say, from my experience, that the huge energy pool is an advantage and I dont feel any huge impacts from loosing 1 point in regen.

Which goes for all builds ive ever used.

But I also getting at the fact that people seem to have this inate reaction of "what are you on about, you noob, saying Rago's staff is crap, noob noob noob", when you even dare insult it.

Which is kind of what you just did. Even if it was unintentional.

Im sure Rago's staff does help some elemental builds, but I <b>personally</b> dont see the advantage it has over what I use accross the board.

I personally find mine better, and I was just asking why others/some seem so defensive or arrogant when you try to share that view.

Sekkira · Dec 23, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

it also depends on the skin.

I'll reiterate what others have said too. If you have energy management, +15 -1 is completely useless to you. Go for +AL or 20% hsr/hct or something

w00t! · Dec 23, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Its staggering that even when I post an non-aggressive post, which was purely asking opinions, someone will still resort to saying "your talking rubbish" in such a direct manor.

Actually, in his post he was just referring to the title of your post, which is "Rago's Staff: Rubbish or Not?". I doubt that he considered your argument rubbish, and found his argument well-considered and insightful.

So while I agree that people tend to flame quickly around here, I don't think that was Antheus' intent.

bhavv · Dec 23, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Meh. Ragos Staff = best staff skin in the game.

I'll take 20% enchants over any one hander combos. It is the best mod in the game. also, -1 regen weps are just plain riduculous. There only use is weapon swapping where you can swap to a +30 hp -2 regen set if you need a quick boost in energy for an emergency.

And since your bragging you think your an experienced elementalist and think your right... Im at 2 million exp on my elly and havent even started nightfall yet. Oh and am rank 6. If someone wants to buy a ragos staff for 60k then let them. I have all the tyrian elly greens, most of them farmed including ragos staff, 15k canthan armour, and am now saving for a tripple white dye mix on each piece because it looks nice.

I think less then 10% of the 'experienced' players that play elem would prefer a -1 energy regen over a ragos staff.

And, erm, yep if you dont have a use for 20% enchant mods at 2 mill exp on an elly, then just what are you playing? Ever used attunements? Ether prodigy? Ether renewal solo earth build? <--- last one demands a 20% enchant mod and its the best PVE elly build going if you solo farm.

Edit - Oh and antheus's post wasnt flaming. Neither is this.

Thorondor Port · Dec 23, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

4 pips > 3 pips.

I'd take the staff.

freekedoutfish · Dec 23, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

Actually, in his post he was just referring to the title of your post, which is "Rago's Staff: Rubbish or Not?". I doubt that he considered your argument rubbish, and found his argument well-considered and insightful.

So while I agree that people tend to flame quickly around here, I don't think that was Antheus' intent.

Your probably right, in which case I apologise to him/her and yourself.

Must be this time of year making me grouchy :P

Antheus · Dec 23, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Its staggering that even when I post an non-aggressive post, which was purely asking opinions, someone will still resort to saying "your talking rubbish" in such a direct manor.

From thread title:

Rago's Staff: Rubbish or not? I say it is compard to....

My response:

Before talking about rubish, what kind of build are you running?

Nothing in GW is absolute. The rest of my post was making assertions towards general elementalist issues, and my experiences.

Unfortunately, your post was much more direct than mine, that was merely trying to get some justification for your claims, rather than simply "Rago's staff is rubish" in 500 words. The reason for this was, that despite a very long post, there was nothing to justify your statement. Why is it better. -1 energy regen is a huge sacrifice that in is generally frowned upon for everything, with possible exception of monk under pressure who does need +30 energy, or MM who uses it to even out the spike energy gains. Even in those cases, sacrificing -1 energy regen is used only for short periods of times, under very risky strategies.

So I was only trying to expect some really hard evidence, possibly with numbers, that would justify such drastic decision.

Are you playing with heroes/henchies, with PUGs or guild groups. Which areas are you running, which builds? How's your pace, do you have a BiP with you or Paragon battery? Do you prefer exhaustion, high-energy or spammable spells? How do you manage energy? How do you handle enchant stripping, interrupts?

All of these are cruicial to justify such insane sacrifice for perhaps the most energy intesive class.

Rago's is not ultimate for eles. Nothing is. But with the general perception of what an elementalist must be in PvE PUGs, it proves to be optimal. It nicely emphasizes on all required bonuses, while having no conditional requirements.

Rago's is versatile, which is perhaps the most important point. -1 energy regen, without knowing what kind of other e-management you run is simply too drastic. Just like with all classes, managing the energy wins over large pool every single time. How do you solve this in your setups? This is the most important question here.

As an example of such little detail that matter. SF lasts 7 seconds. First one does no damage, but puts burning. Next one, following GG will cause damage. Third one will fire just the very moment after burning ends. So without a maximized recharge/casting bonus, you will be doing 1 AoE hit less. And that can be as much as 300-600 damage total. And that is a big deal.

Hand of Ruin · Dec 23, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

do what you want... if you like using a worse set up, then do it.

Whisper Evenstar · Dec 23, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

As a primary ele with almost 4 million XP, Ragos is great for some fire builds (enchant specific), and maybe not the best for others. I tend to switch btwn weaps all the time during PVE play depending on what I am doing. After more than a year of playing I finally just bought a Rago Staff for 60k - and I already had the collector staff modded to the same stats for the last 9 months or so. I looked at this purchase as a treat that I have worked hard to earn given the extreme difficulty in farming this specific item and getting it to drop (farming bores me anyway). I like the weapon combo you use as well tho... might be useful in a few situations, so I think I will give it a try sometime

Count to Potato · Dec 23, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

-1 nrgy regen sux, and 20% enchant for ele owns for dual attunes, and others enchants u might be using, plus the skin is nice to

T N Player · Dec 23, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

People talking about the Rago' staff skin, you can go to the desolation and farm there. The monsters drop the staff with the same skin as Rago's staff. I think it is called "jeweled Staff." It was fire Req, wish i took a screen shot to show you all. I have gotten it a few times but never gold or even close to perfect.

Zinger314 · Dec 23, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

20/20 Wand + 20/20 Focus > Anything

That's the general jist for Elementalists.

arcanemacabre · Dec 23, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

20/20 Wand + 20/20 Focus > Anything

That's the general jist for Elementalists.

Now you can get a 20/20/20/20 staff. Upside: one of those 20's is to all spells. Downside: you lose out on 2 energy. You can figure out from there which is better

bhavv · Dec 23, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by T N Player

People talking about the Rago' staff skin, you can go to the desolation and farm there. The monsters drop the staff with the same skin as Rago's staff. I think it is called "jeweled Staff." It was fire Req, wish i took a screen shot to show you all. I have gotten it a few times but never gold or even close to perfect.

You dont say. You get them in Fow too, however, I have done fow hundreds of times and never even had a blue jeweled staff.

Jeveled staffs are the rarest staff in the game, at least for decent stats, not just the skin.

Kendar Muert · Dec 23, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I personally say that Rago's staff statistics are rubbish compared to (for instance) my fire wand and focus item.

Both of which can be attained from collectors with identical stats, but mine happen to be the greens version.

.................................................. .................................................. .

Rago's staff stats:

Energy +10
Fire damage: 11-22 (req. 9 Fire Magic)
Halves casting time of Fire Magic spells (Chance: 20%)
Halves skill recharge of spells (Chance: 20%)
Energy +5
Enchantments last 20% longer

.................................................. .................................................. .

My combination of Golden Boar Scepter and Tarlok's Flagon:

Golden Boar Scepter

Fire damage* 11-22 (Requires 9 Fire Magic)
Halves skill recharge of fire magic spells (Chance: 20%)
Energy +5 (while Health is above 50%)

Tarlok's Flagon

Energy +12 (req. 9 Energy Storage)
Energy +15
Energy regeneration -1
Health +30

Combined result

Fire damage 11-22 (Req 9 fire magic)
Halves skill recharge of fire magic (chance: 20%)
Energy (+27)-(+32)
Energy regen -1
Health +30

.................................................. .................................................. .

You loose:

Halves casting time of Fire Magic spells (Chance: 20%)
Enchantments last 20% longer

Something I feel isnt hugely important if you use the right spells.

And have to endure:

Energy regen -1

Again, not hugely important if you have energy management.

You gain alot of energy and extra health which Is just a good thing

.................................................. .................................................. .

Now im not un-experienced as an elemental having got him through all 3 campaigns with KOABD and being at 2 million experience.

I know that doesnt say much, but it does show ive been around a while and i have experiemented with different builds and weapons.

I feel the extra energy and health is a given.

I currently have my energy up to 112+ and hp at 515.

Which is quite impressive for an elemental. Something I wouldnt be able to do if I was using Rago's. Yes the -1 regen can be annoying at times, but its not crippling. And you hardly notice faster recharge and casting times.

.................................................. .................................................. .

I make this thread just to find opinions, because I was in one of the major capitals and saw a character spamming WTB Ragos for 60k.

I took it upon myself to wisp that person to offer advice and said its not worth it.

The responce from them was to spend 10 minutes spamming me with "noob".

I didnt respond except to tell him why I thought what I did and that I was just offering advice.

He continued.

He then continued to spam WTB in that city for ages.

Now this same person made the brag that he supposedly had 5 million experience, in between the noob spamming. I find it strange that a 5 million experienced player would choose a nice skin over blatenly improved stats.

An elemental is dependant on energy more then anything, and more health goes a long way.

.................................................. .................................................. .

My conclusion is that alot of players choose to play as elementals and dont put any thought into it and go for the supposedly best weapon they know of.

They dont think elementals take alot of work and are just dmg dealers and thick.

So they want something to look nice with.

So opinions please?

Which combination would you choose?

I do admit the staff has a nice skin... but so does my green combination. So skin isnt a huge agruement if youre being constructive about it.

Ideas?

where are the collecters versions of that? Or, how much would it cost to get the same setup? Ive been trying to buy inscriptions to make those stats on some stuff i have lol.