Curse

Marth Reynolds · Dec 24, 2006, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Toddlers splashing in a pool and olympic althletes are both swimming, but if you think they are on the same level of effort and capability, or deserving of the same attention, then your logic is oddly intrinsic.

I'd find your logic rather unsetteling if you compare the HvH as toddlers and GvG as olympic athletes

In HvH it's more person based and what he manages to do with all his/her skills on heros, while GvG is more focussed on hunting down the guild lord and outsmarting human players.

Don't make these analogies when theyre that kind of rubbish.....

BlueSS · Dec 24, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

the last HBs ive been all involve N/Rt, N/Rt, Rt and one capper

sounds like that you have played against my ritualist holding build

I've been using it the last 3 weeks.

Yanman.be · Dec 24, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

You should be ashamed BlueSS.

anonymous · Dec 24, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

You should be ashamed BlueSS.

Why? Because he is winning?

BlueSS · Dec 24, 2006, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

You should be ashamed BlueSS.

Why? I win a lot with my ritualist build, I'll only change it when I start losing. I'm also the only one in Hero vs Hero battles who doesnt use searing flames and RaO thumpers. never played any of those. every team I play against is either SF or RaO, and I mean every single one of them. and do play sometimes other builds too like R-spike and B-spike. After the 3x searing flame + 1 monk team loses sais that my B-spike build is lame. very funny.

Chaz Rea · Dec 24, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous

Why? Because he is winning?

IWAY used to win a lot as well, just because a lame build is winning doesn't mean its skillful to play. Since when has standing on an altar spamming your skills whenever they recharged been skillful?

Winstar · Dec 24, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

Why do you think A.Net implemented HvH?

you can also customize the heroes bar not to use skills automatically. not only you can control your 8 skill bar but also you have a full control of the remaining 24 skills used by your heroes. and you need extreme multitasking ability to use skills accordingly or in correct sequence (e.g. sever then gash)
and direct the hero where do you want them to be, attack, stay put or avoid battle (microing)

HvH players are playing in a team that usually/traditionally needs 4 players. So all the job of those 4 players are being done by a single player. if a single player can make its heroes emulate three independent and competent persons, isn't that skill? isn't that worthy of a tournament?

Honestly my point from the start has been that I don't think there is anything intrinsicly bad about HvH. There is a negative stigma that surronding it because for a long time, and still to some degree, winning was a joke. I could go afk half my games and my 3 AI monkies would kill the other team. And now with the roll 100 mess the format is in the crapper. Yes the latter thing can be fixed and it isn't about the actual format, but it does reflect peoples attutiudes towards the format. I also don't find the single player element to be that reflective of anything valuble in terms of playskill. I realize the degree of control of koss and friends, but you're not going to cast ever spell, direct everymove, unload every adrenal skill, and I don't see why its a matter of great individual skill to be able juggle your heros better than someone else can juggle their heros. I realize that some people might think differently, but I really don't think this is a reflection of individual skill as much as your play in GvG is. Thus the idea that 8v8 = team skill 1v1 = individual skill isn't quite accurate imo. BUT The real worry I have is that given the lack on interest in general and the state of this format which is brand new, it seems odd that ANET that pass over substanital support for established formats that have a following (TA, HA etc) and suddenly decide HvH was tournament support worthy.

tomcruisejr · Dec 24, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winstar

Honestly my point from the start has been that I don't think there is anything intrinsicly bad about HvH. There is a negative stigma that surronding it because for a long time, and still to some degree, winning was a joke. I could go afk half my games and my 3 AI monkies would kill the other team. And now with the roll 100 mess the format is in the crapper.

maybe that's why a.net is implementing hvh championships so people will actually raise the bar for HvH?

when the game was new, people were bringing mending in gvg/tombs. over time, people knew how to do things efficiently, know the good skills from bad skills, etc, etc. maybe give HvH some time to refine?

Quote:

Yes the latter thing can be fixed and it isn't about the actual format, but it does reflect peoples attutiudes towards the format. I also don't find the single player element to be that reflective of anything valuble in terms of playskill. I realize the degree of control of koss and friends, but you're not going to cast ever spell, direct everymove, unload every adrenal skill, and I don't see why its a matter of great individual skill to be able juggle your heros better than someone else can juggle their heros.

please read what you've quoted.

Quote:

I realize that some people might think differently, but I really don't think this is a reflection of individual skill as much as your play in GvG is.

i think differently and i really think HvH is a reflection of individual skill. and HvH skill and GvG skill is an "apples and oranges" comparison. but there's an exception. full man pure spikes are actually similar to HvH team coz the command is centralized.

Winstar · Dec 24, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

maybe that's why a.net is implementing hvh championships so people will actually raise the bar for HvH?

when the game was new, people were bringing mending in gvg/tombs. over time, people knew how to do things efficiently, know the good skills from bad skills, etc, etc. maybe give HvH some time to refine?

please read what you've quoted.

i think differently and i really think HvH is a reflection of individual skill. and HvH skill and GvG skill is an "apples and oranges" comparison. but there's an exception. full man pure spikes are actually similar to HvH team coz the command is centralized.

I have no doubt that adding prize support will improve the skill level. But, the question I had was why the sudden concern to promote this format to the degree they did while ignoring formats that are established, have a following, and could use some work. I did read, not sure what you're talking about. Your point seemed to be that in fact there is a lot of individual skill involved in managing your heros. I think there is skill involved, but you're never going to get them to act like 3 decent people and the format would be better off with 4 real people playing their roles than having one person running around the map while telling the heros stand here, stand there, use x once and a while. It is to a degree apples and oranges I guess. Directing Hero's around is a bit closer to an RTS in some ways. It still seems like a bad RTS in that case.

Etrik · Dec 24, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

What's the problem with HvH getting attention from devs? I'd like to ask the OP why not the HvH support?

Winstar · Dec 24, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

sigh...

I don't want to repeat everything again, but to sum up...

I don't have a problem with HvH getting attention. Give it a ladder, a title etc. but I feel giving it equal tournament support to GvG is odd given better more established formats exist which could use the attention and some work. HvH went from being a format most players didn't care about to suddenly getting as much attention as the format most pvpers careed about most. I found this a little odd and so do a lot of other people when formats like TA which players have been pushing for more support for for a long time got leapforgged by this rather undeveloped HvH format which to be honest was a bit a of joke. I have no doubt that now that their is money behind it that people will start caring more and looking to improve, but they are only caring more because suddenly there is something to be gained not because of the value of the format, or current player interest in the format. This strikes me as very artifical.

myword · Dec 25, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

maybe that's why a.net is implementing hvh championships so people will actually raise the bar for HvH?

when the game was new, people were bringing mending in gvg/tombs. over time, people knew how to do things efficiently, know the good skills from bad skills, etc, etc. maybe give HvH some time to refine?

you're right that they should give HvH some time to refine, however, a hvh championship in "early 2007" doesn't allow for much time does it?
if they had just implemented a ladder first to see how things played out, i doubt this thread would even be here.

ultimately, winstar, you need to realize that the determining factor in holding a HvH championship is that it allows ANet to showcase their unique Heroes system to a wider audience.

Misa · Dec 25, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

All I can say is that introducing Heros to the pvp scene is a big mistake...

RIP HA... so dead and buried and even the new updated can't res it

Farewell, GW =)

Draikin · Dec 25, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSS

sounds like that you have played against my ritualist holding build

I've been using it the last 3 weeks.

Unfortunately, the fundamental problem is that the opponent is forced to run into a dozen of spirits and try to take it out. It is possible to beat but this build and the variation with a shadow of haste runner is currently being used a lot and provide for the most boring and often frustrating experience. HB could be a lot more interesting with a few changes in the way shrines work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSS

I'm also the only one in Hero vs Hero battles who doesnt use searing flames and RaO thumpers.

Uhm, no you're not. I know several experienced HB players who're using totally different builds (for example a lot of the players from the top guilds are usually running very customized high-damage builds). Currently the ganker + spirit spam build is being played even more than SF or thumpers. Your build is also being copied, I ran into several of those already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winstar

I have no doubt that now that their is money behind it that people will start caring more and looking to improve, but they are only caring more because suddenly there is something to be gained not because of the value of the format, or current player interest in the format. This strikes me as very artifical.

I guess that's true but maybe this is exactly what's needed to make people play HB. Now a lot of people are calling it a joke without even giving it a chance. I do understand you find it odd that TA doesn't get this support but basically the question should be "why no TA ladder" instead of "why the HvH support".

tomcruisejr · Dec 25, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

I do understand you find it odd that TA doesn't get this support but basically the question should be "why no TA ladder" instead of "why the HvH support".

maybe because 2 TA teams can make a gvg team and HvH is a unique format that showcases individual skill and needs to be promoted to make it high end pvp?

Curar Partida · Dec 25, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

/ROLL IS A BUNCH OF CRAP
day back in was in hoh and the other team asked to roll
we said ok and rolled and beat them by alot. But, like almost every one of you jackoff crybaby players, they refused to leave, so we just rolled them.

Winstar · Dec 26, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

I still don't see how this format showcases indiviudal skill when your time is spent beating up ai who are supported mainly by other ai. I can concede that it tests (challenges, highlights) a very different set of skills than those used in other pvp formats. Basically, your ability to micro mangage, making the format like an RTS of sorts. But in this sense its not a good measure of your individual skill in GW in the older sense, how well you play in an HA or GvG team. Basically it measures something very different from what we would mean by individual skill in traditional formats. I don't see why the fact that 2 TA teams = GvG team that TA shouldn't get support. Halls needs 2 more for GvG, so don't support halls?

Alleji · Dec 26, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous.

I remember when GvG and HA were the two highest peaks of acheivement in this game. HA's status was continually falling though, and now instead of giving it support and attempting to restore competition in HA to the level of GvG again, anet makes tournaments for HvH...

Hey, why don't we hold RA tournaments? Or maybe Fort Aspenwood tournaments? Or daily time attack in Boreas Seabed?

Seriously, if they are set on running HA into the ground, they could've given Team Arenas some serious support instead... I'd probably start playing that :/