Curse

You just got tomahawked · Dec 26, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

I blame Anet and the gold farming companies.

Count to Potato · Dec 26, 2006, 04:32 AM // 04:32

armor is the only thing that has a constant value, thye means to get the 75-1000k for decent armor is a different thing

leprekan · Dec 26, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

Someone doesn't understand that supply and demand are relative things. What happens when someone finds a crystalline sword in one of the new Elona chests? Saying "Always" about things that are beyond your control makes you look pompous at best, sadly misinformed t worst. If ANET decided tomorrow to add a collector that gave out Crystalline skin swords, would they still be worth 100k + xx ectos? What makes you think that they're worth that NOW? Just becuse you can sometimes sell something for that much, is that the only indicator of worth?

It's really sad that people see someone with FoW armor and immediately assume "bot," or "ebay buyer." On the other hand, though, it shows how thoroughly items, even "prestige" items can be devalued. Whatever FoW armor is worth, the popular opinion anymore is to bash the person wearing it as someone who bought gold. Perception CREATES reality in economics.

If ANET screwed up, and introduced a way to get crystalline swords from a specific mob, and people farmed say 5000 of them in a few minutes before it was caught, how long would it take for Crystalline skins to become less valuable? how long before People started being called "bot farmer" or "exploiter" for using a crystalline sword, regardless of where it came from? And, if that DID happen, who would pay more than maybe 10k for one?

Claiming that certain things have an inherent value, when dealing with hundreds or thousands of other people buying and selling the same item, is absurd. Value is what you can get someone ELSE to pay for it, nothing more.

Uh .. I believe there have been like 10 perfect crystallines in 19 months with 3 million copies sold. I think that puts them squarely in the ALWAYS category. Agreed, you do seem to be both pompous and sadly misinformed.

Gold crystallines only come from ONE place it is safe to say we won't have people farming 5 thousand in a few minutes ... since there is only a chance for ONE in that time frame. If Anet were to make a green crystalline you would get a front row seat to the death of a game. People need to think big picture but are often too focused on what they desire in the short term.

Orinn · Dec 26, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Uh .. I believe there have been like 10 perfect crystallines in 19 months with 3 million copies sold. I think that puts them squarely in the ALWAYS category. Agreed, you do seem to be both pompous and sadly misinformed.

Gold crystallines only come from ONE place it is safe to say we won't have people farming 5 thousand in a few minutes ... since there is only a chance for ONE in that time frame. If Anet were to make a green crystalline you would get a front row seat to the death of a game. People need to think big picture but are often too focused on what they desire in the short term.

You missed my point: the skin, and where it drops, is entirely out of player control. The devs can change things, so saying "always" assumes "no changes will be made to it" and that's a fairly large assumption when ANET has spend a lot of time and effort making the high-end items affordable.

I'm always curious as to where the tiny number of perfect crystallines comes from. There are people farming UW pretty much constantly: duoing, soloing, and going in teams. Whichever country has favor, you can bet tehre are dozens of people (and sometimes hundreds) in the UW at any given time. As far as I know, ANET has never come out and SAID "There are xx Crystalline swords with 15>50 inherent on players, xx crystalline swords with 15% stance on characters, and xx with 15% while enchanted. Of these, xx are req 8, xx are req 9, and xx are req 10 or higher."

And until I see ANET publish official figures on that, I'm disinclined to believe numbers that are by necessity made up. Quite frankly, we (the players) do NOT have access to the data. Who knows how many 15>50 crystallines are out there with req 8? I don't. and you don't, so please stop throwing out numbers that you can't validate.

pharaos · Dec 26, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

the thing that fcked up economy are green items and gold items which are too often dropping (the most stupid thing in the game are green items imo)
If u want perfect items in pve u should work for it and not buy them for 5 k each ... the point of pve is that u must work hard to get weapons with perfect mods and not to get them after u sell 1-3 ectos.

the economy at the begining of the game was the economy i liked, even staff upgrades could be sold fo 20-30 k if not more. there were korean bots to farm for us .

there r pvp chars to play with perfect items and max armors. whats the point of so many perfect weapons in pve if u cant confront the other players outside the towns (the 2nd most stupid thing in gw)

Tonepalu · Dec 26, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

I'm always curious as to where the tiny number of perfect crystallines comes from.

The one and only place that a gold Crystalline sword can drop is in the Hall of Heroes, after defeating 2 opposing teams a Chest spawns on the center altar that you have to keep control of in order to win. This Chest is the only place left in the game where a gold Crystalline,Dwarven Axe, Serpent Axe, "Swamp Club" skinned war hammer(ok these come from the end uber chest in Hell's Precipice as well but still), Ascalon skinned war hammer can ever drop.

Leprekan referred to the number of perfect Crystallines based on information from this or GWOline's sites.

I've been playing for 18+ months myself, I remember a time when unlocked chests dropped these items as well, and yet in all this time only that many perfects have been accounted for.

Blame goes to nobody but us, GW economy was built to be controlled by the players. For some reason this statement "A player driven economy" is stuck in my mind, just cant remember where I saw it, dont care to look either xD

Xenrath · Dec 26, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

There is just one thing that needs to click, then people can be free: all weapons and armour (of each type) in GW are the same in terms of max stats. The only thing for the most part you might be spending hours of farming/whatever on is just to get a different skin. Ask yourself how really important that is.... how often do you spend looking at your character's weapons anyway? Probably not all that much, more time spent looking at skills bar/party bar/other things like enemies.

Once that fundamental fact has clicked, you'll realise how trivial and pointless the rest of the economic stuff really is. You can pick up collector items/greens for a fraction of the cost, time and effort and they work exactly the same as the l33t 1000k item which has identical stats, just a different skin. You're stressing out over vanity.

Edit: just to cut off at the pass, anyone who's thinking of comparing Fords to Ferraris, that kind of comparison doesn't work. They're completely different cars in terms of performance ("stats" if you will) etc. as well

getalifebud · Dec 26, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

I remember when people would buy yule caps, knowing they are festive, just to hold them in their inventory. They payed good money too.

led-zep · Dec 26, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

this is exactly why i laugh at everyone who charges 100k plus ectos for anything at all no matter how rare or cool skinned. whats the point, in my opinion you cant buy anything better stats than 1.5k armour or collecters weapons, yes there are different skins but imo most 1.5 / 15k is better than fow armour anyway and the expensive weapons are pretty ugly in most cases.

there is absolutely nothing worth gaining mass wealth for in this game, i should know after giving away over a million in gold and god knows how many ectos during my gw time i still have a large amount of gold as i have nothing to aspire to so the gold piles up

Loviatar · Dec 26, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharaos

the thing that fcked up economy are green items and gold items which are too often dropping (the most stupid thing in the game are green items imo)
If u want perfect items in pve u should work for it and not buy them for 5 k each ... the point of pve is that u must work hard to get weapons with perfect mods and not to get them after u sell 1-3 ectos.

the economy at the begining of the game was the economy i liked, even staff upgrades could be sold fo 20-30 k if not more. there were korean bots to farm for us .

wrong.

notice how Anet is bringing prices down so super farmer/bot feels the pain?

a mod trader is just around the corner...............orrrrr......maybe a big drop rate increase to do to mods what it did to superior absorb/sigels/etc.

the day of the casual person playing a game instead of looking at a few rich *elite* people who can grind 10/12/more hours a day is coming.

i would not spend 10 hours a day for 19 months unless i was getting a real life living wage out of it.

w00t! · Dec 26, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

The only thing wrong with the economy is that Anet keeps adding easier ways to make gold, but removes the gold sinks.

So you end up with more gold and less ways to spend it.

If this were true, then we'd be seeing price inflation. Fact is, there has been a serious price deflation for the last several months. Probably close to a year now, since the introduction of green items.

While agree with you that there need to be more gold sinks, the relative lack of them doesn't seem to have hurt the economy. I'm not sure why, but I'd hazard a guess that it's due to people leaving the game and / or customizing items. Not that there has been an exodus away from GW, but rather that there is a natural tendency for hardcore gamers (the people who tend to amass serious cash) to tire of the game and either take a break, or move on.

The economy in GW is neither good nor bad, it just is. When I was commodities broker, I learned that you should just become neutral to prices, and pay more attention to their movement. So when I saw prices start to drop, I sold all my valuable stuff (except a few things I wanted to keep and customized), and bought some of it back when the prices stabilized.

So when you see short-term inflation (oft caused by new-item craze), buy; when you see short-term deflation, sell. The trick is spotting the trend.

SpeedyKQ · Dec 26, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I think the economy is OK. At any given time, half of the complaint posts are about inflation, and half of them are about deflation.

The trend for most things is towards deflation - each new expansion probably increases the supply of green swords more than the demand for green swords, for example. But the rate at which you earn gold is higher in the newer areas, balancing things out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

The only thing wrong with the economy is that Anet keeps adding easier ways to make gold, but removes the gold sinks.

An example is more quests giving gold, but then they give away things like salvage and indentification kits for free using commendations.

I really disagree strongly with this. It was a SERIOUS problem in Prophecies that there was no reward for questing. It makes no sense for questing to be less profitable per hour than farming. Adding equipment requisitions and such helped alleviate this problem a little bit - but not enough.

In any case, if there is too much cash in the economy (and I don't think there is), the solution is to reduce drops, not quest rewards.

leprekan · Dec 26, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

You missed my point: the skin, and where it drops, is entirely out of player control. The devs can change things, so saying "always" assumes "no changes will be made to it" and that's a fairly large assumption when ANET has spend a lot of time and effort making the high-end items affordable.

I'm always curious as to where the tiny number of perfect crystallines comes from. There are people farming UW pretty much constantly: duoing, soloing, and going in teams. Whichever country has favor, you can bet tehre are dozens of people (and sometimes hundreds) in the UW at any given time. As far as I know, ANET has never come out and SAID "There are xx Crystalline swords with 15>50 inherent on players, xx crystalline swords with 15% stance on characters, and xx with 15% while enchanted. Of these, xx are req 8, xx are req 9, and xx are req 10 or higher."

And until I see ANET publish official figures on that, I'm disinclined to believe numbers that are by necessity made up. Quite frankly, we (the players) do NOT have access to the data. Who knows how many 15>50 crystallines are out there with req 8? I don't. and you don't, so please stop throwing out numbers that you can't validate.

I didn't miss your point. Your point is just a pfa (pull from air) to enhance a debate. No offense but it is as valid as saying what if Anet makes ectos drop from every low level monster in presearing.

Gold crystallines are only from winning in hoh. I don't see Anet mucking with it anymore than they already have. There are considerably more gold crystallines in circulation now than there used to be since Anet in their infinite wisdom (note heavy use of sarcasm) made hoh a 3 way with a much shorter time limit. You will actually find people "farming hoh" now.

You are welcome to believe what you want but that won't change how many req8 15>50s there are. Something you might try is searching the high end forum on guru ... this is where most of them wind up.

EternalTempest · Dec 26, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

As builds changed, skills added or altered, what equipment (stat wise) value will change because it will drive demand (or the reverse).

Having weapons affordable is a very good thing. I have nothing against a high value market for rare "skins" as long as I can get the boring mundame thing or make it for the stats I would like.

Nightfall introduced the inscription system. When they did, my definition of "perfect" changed from perfect mods, gold to Req 8/9 gold. max damage.. and no worried about the other stats, I can change them.

Coridan · Dec 26, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

I didn't miss your point. Your point is just a pfa (pull from air) to enhance a debate. No offense but it is as valid as saying what if Anet makes ectos drop from every low level monster in presearing.

Gold crystallines are only from winning in hoh. I don't see Anet mucking with it anymore than they already have. There are considerably more gold crystallines in circulation now than there used to be since Anet in their infinite wisdom (note heavy use of sarcasm) made hoh a 3 way with a much shorter time limit. You will actually find people "farming hoh" now.

You are welcome to believe what you want but that won't change how many req8 15>50s there are. Something you might try is searching the high end forum on guru ... this is where most of them wind up.

that is too funny...saying that Anet won't make an error that will cause a rare skin to drop somewhere else is so much BS...anyone remember the ecto fiasco when the servers were rolled back...also fella i seriously doubt that all traders or HoHers or whoever gets the godly items your are talking about trade at Guru...I mean come on do you really think that everyone that plays the game actually comes here to sell there junk??? Get a clue! I played the dammed game for 3 months before I even heard of guildwarsguru.com and I KNOW that i sold crap to merchants that some people would consider "godly". So as far as you saying only 19 or how ever many Perfect Crystalines have dropped in the entire life time of GW is just plain ridiculous...please excuse my spelling and or grammar errors...and excuse my "tone" that type of stuff just pisses me off..

Francis Crawford · Dec 26, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

It seems to me that there are two main lines of complaint:

1. Prices are too high, and getting higher
2. Prices are too low, and getting lower

Is that an apt summary?

Tegato · Dec 26, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

I't sll supply and demand. To people who say it doesn't matter if 15k armor has the same stats as 1.5k: Who cares? Why? Because it's all about "bragging rights" and our nature to want to "look" and "feel" better the others. It's our natural instinct to want better items, or just simply better stuff.

And with the people that can afford those items, they'll pay for it. 100k+XXecto's isn't much if you have millions. What else do you spend it on? Why not something that can make you look better?

In terms of rarity of an item, it'll be one dam dull game because if every item were to be acquired easily, EVERYONE would have ALMOST the same skins used and there is no more originality. There is also no more of that feeling that you've achieved something. It's like having someone thats played for 1 month having the exact same items as someone who has played ever since the game came out. There NEEDS to be items varying in terms of rarity to PROMOTE gaming.

And, last, they're all the same stats, right? If you can't afford the skin, buy a differnt one, still same stats eh? You want something, work for it. Farming, buying from eBay, who cares. All that requires time, farming especially, and buying from eBay means you spent your real life money, into something that has no value besides ingame.

Really, if you want to blame someone for the ecnomony, blame everyone, because everyone plays a small part of a whole. Everyone does something that affects the economy. Ectos for example, before the aggro nerf, they went down to as low as 5.5k from vendor, but now since 55 is harder, and it's harder to farm, meaning there's less people doing it, prices go up. Everyone is to blame. Blame ANet for making that nerf happen. Blame the person that came up with the idea to farm in the first place. Blame everyone else for copying that person. Blame that person that finds a rare item and sells it high. Blame the person that buys it, which sets an example to others that find that item. Blame everyone, makes the world a nicer place.

Francis Crawford · Dec 26, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption

Veblen explained it in 1899.

AnnaCloud9 · Dec 26, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

To the OP:

The economy hasn't crashed, just yours has.
99% of the other players economy is just fine.

Until people understand that Guild Wars isn't about what you own, and more about how you use what you own, this topic will always end up the same.

So, in answer to your query...

You're to blame for the economy that never had a place in Guild Wars to begin with. So, to fix it, lower your prices so that you will stop complaining about how much your crystaline sword you've been sitting on has dropped in value, rather than complain as to why no one is buying it for your outrageous price.

As far as you know, I own a dozen 15^50 req. 7 crystaline swords, and if I don't, who really cares? Oh yeah, the other 1% of the economical minority (that's you).

Darksun · Dec 26, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

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