Curse

Savio · Jan 19, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

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Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

i dont agree with you Savio, PvE players feel the skill nurfs as much as pvp players. for pve players, pve is the only game that exists, that they are interested in enouthg and that they enjoy (well, occasional pvp doesnt make it to be important enouth to care about) no mattter what game is it, GW, WoW etc.

The majority of casual players don't register for forums. They just play the game a few hours at a time, come up with their own builds, generally have their own fun. Many of them do play PvP on a semiregular basis, even if they aren't very good at it.

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if lets say spitful spirit was nurfed to the point that you cant use it anymore, dont u think that you would start seing waaay less necros around? thats just an example btw. PvE players care about skills and build as much as PVPers, we dont just mindlessly put skills on a skill bar and run out of the portal. we read skills, theres skills that we use all the time (relatevly) and skills we never use, and skills we used to love but now threre useless, and WE ARE upset about them as mucha s PVPers.

The chances that a casual player will randomly come up with a power build is slim. How many PvE necros out there do you think are using SS? Probably not half, probably not even a quarter. The majority of the PvE crowd will be casual players who slap on whatever elite they want, whether it be Flesh Golem, Life Transfer, Flourish, or no elite at all. The power PvE crowd, a noticably smaller group, will be divided among the more popular/stronger elites, of which Spiteful Spirit is one among several. The farmers, also a smaller group, will also be divided.

Were SS to be nerfed, some farmers and power PvE players would feel it. Farmers will complain for a day before the next popular farming build comes out, power PvE players will just switch to another strong Elite. PvErs' fun doesn't die from nerfs, unless you were having loads of fun using an overpowered skill against hordes of dumb AI.

...

Of course, you could just tell us how many farming builds rely upon overpowered PvP skills and then explain how they're not being badly abused in PvE. If there was a skill that, through some slip in the system, made you permanently invincible in PvE but not in PvP, do you think that it wouldn't be nerfed? Arenanet doesn't seem to like braindead farming builds.

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we have party builds and strategies just like you guys

No, most PvErs don't, to my extreme disappointment. And I'm more of a PvEr.

Zinger314 · Jan 19, 2007, 05:50 AM // 05:50

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Originally Posted by Savio

No, most PvErs don't, to my extreme disappointment. And I'm more of a PvEr.

Doesn't Heroes count as a group formation and strategy?

My PC + Heroes worked that way: Me as SS for hexing + Barbs for Olias, Olias for MM, General Morgahn with "They're on Fire," and Zhed with Searing Flames, which triggers "ToF."

Although I agree, most PvErs don't think like that and just throw any 3 random builds together. (groan)

But you have an 8 person party, whether you like it or not...

(And if they nerf SS, that's going to be a permanent game-quit for me, unless they madly buff other Necro elites. There aren't really any other "strong" Necromancer elites for PvE.

)

Lets Get to Healing · Jan 19, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

I PvE, I PvP. PvP matters waaaay more. I mean, finding a build against AI is easy. Finding one to an endless amount of oppositional forces is very very tough. stop your god damn flames, and lets keep this civilized.

lyra_song · Jan 19, 2007, 06:19 AM // 06:19

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Originally Posted by Zinger314

(And if they nerf SS, that's going to be a permanent game-quit for me, unless they madly buff other Necro elites. There aren't really any other "strong" Necromancer elites for PvE.

)

I like Reaper's Mark myself....gonna watch it get nerfed soon.

But i doubt SS will be nerfed, its good, but its not destroying mobs instantly. and its not like the metagame is based on it atm.

Pandora's box · Jan 19, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Weird that some players seem to think skill balancing does not affect PvE. Of course it does!

I make much effort in putting together good working hero teams. The balance in such teams depends very much on timing and calculation. Skills are triggered from left to right (with some exeptions). This means that on the moment a skill more left in the skill bar becomes available the computer ai will try to execute it. When something changes, e.g. in energy cost or recharge time, you need to re-calculate if skills still become available in the right order. If not, the whole system might collapse... Making the build completely useless!

Another thing is that special monster skills never change. Skill balancing would be no problem in PvE if it worked out equally for every creature on the map like in PvP, but that is not the case...

SotiCoto · Jan 19, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

ANYHOW....

Aside from the skills that are going to invariably be made worse..... hopefully Dervish and Paragon skills and NOT any Assassin skills.... I hope that a few skills that are currently useless will be made better instead.

Admittedly... skills which for some people seem useless might actually be useful for others. For instance, I never found any effective use for that skill which makes casting half-range spells quicker etc since I didn't know of that many half-range spells and thought it applied only to the few assassin spells that involved throwing daggers. I have since learnt that its useful for monks.... so..... while I would have considered it underpowered, others considered it overpowered (but then that was genuinely bugged from what I heard and has since been fixed)...

But still... some skills need pumping up. I have no idea why Distortion was completely nerfed into uselessness, but it could do with re-pumping (something which I know will never happen).

xcutioner · Jan 19, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

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Originally Posted by MistressYichi

im not. prot spirit. end of story. they do no more with prot spirit than anything else can do.

Yes, of course, I just cast prot spirit on all 8 members of my party...

2_fingers · Jan 19, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

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Originally Posted by SotiCoto

ANYHOW....

Aside from the skills that are going to invariably be made worse..... hopefully Dervish and Paragon skills and NOT any Assassin skills.... I hope that a few skills that are currently useless will be made better instead.

But still... some skills need pumping up. I have no idea why Distortion was completely nerfed into uselessness, but it could do with re-pumping (something which I know will never happen).

Let me guess u play assassin? Seems a bit selfish if u prefer the sin and expect them to nerf other classes but the sin. The thing about nerfs is that most skills ARE interrelated. If you change a few skills say dealing with shouts, then other skills that are also related to shouts would be affected and need changes. That's the idea of balance - its an intricate dance.

Distortion : nerfed(or balanced) because perhaps it was considered overpowered in comparison to other evasion stances. (Admittedly arguable)

Diddy bow · Jan 19, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Nerfing sins would be stupid, you dont see them in groups of four (with 2 monks) owning hoh or drasticly hoarding ectos.

Some like pve some like pvp and most like both

.

I think the good ol spirit spam needs some re thinking not because its paticuarly over powerd but because it encourages camping and thats no fun

(I guess traps can do but they are easy enough to go round).

SotiCoto · Jan 19, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

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Originally Posted by 2_fingers

Let me guess u play assassin? Seems a bit selfish if u prefer the sin and expect them to nerf other classes but the sin. The thing about nerfs is that most skills ARE interrelated. If you change a few skills say dealing with shouts, then other skills that are also related to shouts would be affected and need changes. That's the idea of balance - its an intricate dance.

Yes. I play Assassin... typically Assassin / Mesmer. Doesn't take a degree in rocket-science to work it out. In fact its listed to the left of this post under my avatar. ^_^

But there is method to my madness, and my "selfishness". That is to say that the Dervish and Paragon, listed by myself for tweaking... are the newer Nightfall classes... and that includes all their skills. Most Assassin skills have been around since the release of Factions and as such shouldn't need much adjusting... whereas the entire function of the Dervish and Paragon hasn't been as thoroughly tested and tweaked yet.... and hence is more likely to need..... well..... more of it.
Its not completely unreasonable to assume that the longer something has been around and updated for, the better balanced it should be.... right?

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Distortion : nerfed(or balanced) because perhaps it was considered overpowered in comparison to other evasion stances. (Admittedly arguable)

But its practically the ONLY truly defensive skill the Mesmer class has! Likewise their only effective heal involves feigning injury (Illusion of Weakness)... Not fun. Made self-defence as an assassin (without shadow-stepping) very difficult..... before I figured out how to stick Dark Escape / Feigned Neutrality with Illusionary Weaponry.... ^_^

Yichi · Jan 19, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

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Originally Posted by xcutioner

Yes, of course, I just cast prot spirit on all 8 members of my party...

Yes because all 8 of your party are being attacked at the same time...... and if they are, spread out. if you cant understand that logic, you deserve a party wipe.