Curse

Gaile Gray · Jan 18, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

We updated to change a configuration on a server in China. Seriously.

Do you really think that we need to post this as an update note? Would it be fair to think that everyone (or at least the reasonable ones

) will trust that if something that is going to impact players is changed, we will tell players on the update notes?

I told the programmers that a thread like this would appear. I said that maybe we should post a silly "Updated server configuration in China" post. I didn't get a note back and I didn't want to post it up without consultation. The fact is, when we post trivial things like that, we push the good stuff off the page onto the archives, where it's harder to find and read. So when we tweak a wire over in Germany, or vacuum dust bunnies out of a server in Virginia, do we write out update notes and post them, or not?

I say let's not bury the good stuff -- the important updates -- under needless nuisance update notes. I say expect and trust us to post, when something impacts players, but not post when we're doing something that is invisible and non-impacting upon players. If it will have any impact on you, we'll let you know.

What do you think?

holy matremonie · Jan 18, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

that you are absolutely right.

Is there news about a future skill balance?

Niels · Jan 18, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Well, since it downloads 2MB of information into my computer I would like to know what it is, so I think every updated should get a note.

Just my 2cents though

kvndoom · Jan 18, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

vacuum dust bunnies out of a server in Virginia

If GW.com posted that as an update, that would RULE.

Dr Strangelove · Jan 18, 2007, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niels

Well, since it downloads 2MB of information into my computer I would like to know what it is, so I think every updated should get a note.

Just my 2cents though

I really don't think it would be good business policy for Anet to upload viruses and the like onto our computers. Besides, can you account for every file you've downloaded from them even with update notes? For me, I just assume I have 3 gigs of "guild wars crap" on my computer and move on with my life.

Cassandra Tanacel · Jan 18, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Gaile maybe a notepad file could pop up with these minor changes? Keep those complainers happy?

Personally, i'd rather the odd mini patch with minor fixes on the software side of thing than a whacking huge 60mb file every three months which kills the game for an hour of downloading. And i don't really worry about 2 meg of files

Niels · Jan 18, 2007, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I really don't think it would be good business policy for Anet to upload viruses and the like onto our computers. Besides, can you account for every file you've downloaded from them even with update notes? For me, I just assume I have 3 gigs of "guild wars crap" on my computer and move on with my life.

Well, I think it's save to say I pretty much account for al my downloaded files.
And when a program downloads 2MB of data, I would really like to know what
has been downloaded.

And no, I don't think ArenaNet would upload viruses on my computer, but that's
not the point really.

winkgood · Jan 18, 2007, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I say let's not bury the good stuff -- the important updates -- under needless nuisance update notes. I say expect and trust us to post, when something impacts players, but not post when we're doing something that is invisible and non-impacting upon players. If it will have any impact on you, we'll let you know.

What do you think?

Except that there have been times that there were updates that impacted the players that were not mentioned in the update notes or the notes came much later. I say for the amount of time it takes to edit the update notes, it would be worth it, even for small updates like this one. Then you don't have to worry about threads like this one popping up and we can all relax knowing that something drastic wasn't changed.

Paperfly · Jan 18, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

I really don't think it would be good business policy for Anet to upload viruses and the like onto our computers.

Well, Acclaim just re-launched with a series of ad-funded "free" MMOs, and initial reports of the software you're expected to download suggest that not all the ad "partners" are to be trusted. So the more open accountability the better, I say!

As an added example, some of the WoW anti-cheating software is notoriously intrusive on your system's security; so there's relevant issues even with companies you'd nominally trust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

The fact is, when we post trivial things like that, we push the good stuff off the page onto the archives, where it's harder to find and read. So when we tweak a wire over in Germany, or vacuum dust bunnies out of a server in Virginia, do we write out update notes and post them, or not?

Well, it's one of those hardcore fanbase versus casual fanbase dealies. I appreciate that when you do something Wintersday-major (or even balance-weekend major) you'd like to keep the information prominent so casual players will say "hey, I might check this out!". But we hardcore types tend to be control freaks at best and anal-retentive at worst, and we appreciate every effort made to assuage our anxiety via official information. Or would you rather we put our talents at deductive reasoning to work with no information instead? Because it's very much an either-or proposition, I assure you.

Really, it comes down to what you want the perception of the "updates" tab on the main site to be. Are we to view it as a tool we can use to, say, predict the game's overall stability over the next 24 hours? Is it a formal log we can use to track the game's evolution? Is it a marketing feature promoting the latest content addition? Because honestly, the latter would be best served elsewhere on the site.

wingzro · Jan 18, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

I properly built website wouldn't make information difficult to find just because it gets pushed into "archive". Just saying...

Perhaps there should be posted updates for both game changes and server changes.

RTSFirebat · Jan 18, 2007, 10:33 AM // 10:33

It's most likely nothing more but Pre-Test Weekend update files.

You know A.net does it think stream updates to you all the time. So do they need to provide update notes for all of that?

Come on now lets not be silly.

Spellforge · Jan 18, 2007, 10:34 AM // 10:34

I think there should be a note for every update. It will stop people going - OMG after the last update all my Dyes are pink and I lost my favourite staff. If they could see that something in China was changed then they would know it wasn't the update that had done it

Xenex Xclame · Jan 18, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Maybe instead of indeed posting on your site and pushing more important stuff off the first page to put "you stopped using squirels to power the servers", just make a post here? and some of the other big fansites.

Or maybe just like we did now, but maybe just less suspicous we make a thread and ask what the update was about not 10 minutes after the update was downloaded, but maybe a few hours and then youkindly come and tell us what it is.

Menzoberranzan · Jan 18, 2007, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Might as well just have a select space allocated to updates such as this on the main update page. Call it "Server Maintenance" update or something technical. It ought to put to rest any future update speculation and allow future maintenance operations to be carried out without any worry.

the_jos · Jan 18, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Again, it's all about communication.
A-net did some patching, people got the 'new client warning' in game (like me) or update when they started GW.
I figured release notes would follow sooner or later.

A little part on the /gameupdates/ part of the website which just mentiones "update for Chinese players, 2007-01-17" would be enough and not put the more important updates on the site in archive.
This is especially true for the somewhat larger updates.
I see some smaller now and then, but this was about 5 minutes to download and process on my DSL.
It made me wonder if any large changes took place.

A little line (or perhaps link to page with minor adjustments) would be nice.
Just to let us know you changed something that's not important to 90% of the Guild Wars population.

@ Grasping Darkness:
I've seen larger companies than A-net with worse communications.
And they deliver more important systems than A-net (GW is just a game, your company/life does not depend on it).
So please give them some credit.

KamikazeChicken · Jan 18, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The fact is, when we post trivial things like that, we push the good stuff off the page onto the archives, where it's harder to find and read.

If they're the people who regularly check the update notes after each update, it won't matter that old updates end up moving from the main page to the archives. You're better off making posts on every update just to prevent threads such as this. IMO, the opportunity cost seems lower that way.

Pete_Lefeu · Jan 18, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

well IMHO, it's better with small update than a very big update download every month or something like that. Look at World of Warcraft, they have a big update to download which take atleast an hour. With Guild Wars, we have streaming informations and update that we're getting daily to prevent those big update.

But I admit some little information when you have the message "A new build of Guild Wars is available. Please restart your game." would be great. So people wouldn't go crazy in town saying: "OMG they nerfed that skills OMG!".

Mr_T_bot · Jan 18, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The fact is, when we post trivial things like that, we push the good stuff off the page onto the archives, where it's harder to find and read.

That might have been relevant a year ago when updates of importance were coming out once a week or two or less, but now, when updates worth reading about are coming out once a month, if we are lucky, no one cares any more about the updates that happened a month and 3 weeks ago. It has already been read and archived by the players.

phallanxian · Jan 18, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

This forum amazes me so far, Anet is the best dev company i have come across recently they actually update the game and make sure it works. Go try playing games like the unfinished mess that is bf2 then come back and complain it takes ea several months to release patches that fix no bugs introduce a exploitable new feature and introduce a bug that crashes the server. tbh i'm just happy to be playing a game that works and i don't care if i don't know what every single file does

Xenrath · Jan 18, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Introduce an ingame update notes screen, which would contain every update and some small note. That would solve this issue for everyone, you could post the non-trivial updates on the main site and trivial updates would still get mentioned via the ingame update notes screen.

Since the login screen shows notes on upcoming events I'm sure this means it wouldn't be much effort to put update notes there too.