Curse

the_jos · Jan 22, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

I was thinking over the whole situation when I was driving back from work.
The only thing I could think of was (and I've seen it covered before):

- There is "The Real Thing", the 15^50% non-inscribed Crystalline
- There is "The Almost Real Thing", the 13/14% non-inscribed Crystalline
- There is "The Look Mum, I Made My Own Real Thing", the inscribable Crystalline.

With the introduction of the last, The Real Thing will drop even less frequent (or even never again) so value will increase.

Savio said earlier in the thread:

Quote:

The problem is that inscribable crystallines don't cater to poor people, they cater to the middle-class (~300k) people who can't figure out how to make money faster.

May I remind you of post #105, given the bold line is yours.
I consider this about as much a flame as 'go play an other game'.

I know how to make money faster.
But most of the time I'm helping people around the game.
That nets me about 3-5K / hour in high end areas.
Getting to the 300K takes a long time that way, farming and helping people around are hard to combine.

Should I just go out and solo farm whenever I can, not caring about the other players at all (they have heroes and PuGs suck anyway).
Or could that mentality be one of the reasons A-net is introducing the changes, so people start playing the game again?

I cannot determine at this point whether the introduction is good or bad.
My gut feeling says it's good for the owners of the original 15^50.
And bad for the people that want that one.
I think the inscribable will be seen as the MG, the poor man's Aston Martin.
Nice to have, but not the real thing.

Abnaxus · Jan 22, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

You are aware that most of the old school power traders and item collectors who owned Guild Wars around release time no longer play??? When Anet added Sorrows Furnace many quit, and many quit when Anet screwed with the drop rates. They were clearly motivated by an items rarity so if every item was inscriptable I could not see them or me for that matter hanging around long.

That's the confirmation that those kind of players artificially created the myth of the "godly" item, thinking that GW could have been another item based game like most of what are in the market, to be played in the search of the uber and unique weapon.
They wanted to play a minigame inside the game, GW disappointed those who had this vision of a MMOG which is probably different from that of the developers, but luckily there are tons of games for them on the market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

Poor mind I guess is directed at me and others who dislike what Anet do. If anything the people who cant make millions of gold in Guild Wars have poor minds as it is not hard to make gold and can be done without grind. I mean I can go from mmorpg to mmorpg and make rediculous amounts of gold quickly and easily. My success, obviously the result of a poor mind... How about my real life investments which have allowed me to make alot of money? Poor mind... Excellent education and excellent grades? You guessed it, poor mind. My success in online game and real life is almost certainly due to my poor mind.
Insulting people really is ftl. This thread I bet will get closed as people are resulting to childish and strange insults.

Poor mind is directed to those who create myths out of nothing, who in their minds give artificially value to something which has no value at all, and still feel pain when they deem they don't have anymore the toys they have "hardly worked" for.

And about the possibility to make millions without grind in GW or in WoW, unless you have a magic undiscovered way, the only system is power trading, or speculation on prices of materials, runes and whatever.
To do this, you really don't need to play the game at all, just sit in Kamadan or LA and buy low - sell high, or watch forums and do the same. Once you have understood how the market works, it's just a matter of time spent in this activity.
Ok, but this is playing a minigame inside the main game. You don't need to make missions, PvP, nothing, you can do it with a lvl 2 character that remains at level 2 always. Just play GW like monopoly.

And please, don't come to the forum boasting your education and success in real life to support your ability to play Monopoly inside GW and WoW.
I didn't conclude my post boasting that I graduated at University in Europe (your PhD) with magna cum laude and all the rest of the success in my RL to support my opinion.

Childish behavior FTL.

lyra_song · Jan 22, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The overlaying theme is that:

-People enjoy collecting rare stuff in Guild Wars.
-Adding inscribable versions of rare stuff demeans the original rare stuff.
-People are losing that said enjoyment.

Please stop denying or arguing against how people feel.

The arguement and topic that can really be had is:

Who will this affect?
How will this affect them?
Is it a positive change or a negative change overall?

Arenanet may have not originally marketed Guild Wars to specific player types, but they HAVE hooked player-types outside their intended audience, showing just how great this game is.

If Anet wants to keep its various niche players as customers, they will need to appeal to each type of player seperately and try to find ways to give a little something for everyone.

Please understand how difficult this is.

On that note can we stop this childish back and forth personal bickering, mods and non-mods alike?

Feme Assassin · Jan 22, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I hate anet they destoryed the rarest item in game if they continue destroying our game then i will think of going back to wow

zerulus · Jan 22, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I don't understand why people get upset that they can't easily afford every item in the game regardless of the amount of time spent playing. The skin provides aesthetic value and nothing more. It is constantly brought up that guild wars is a game that does not require grind and this is true for the most part. However, I don't believe it was ever declared anywhere that you wouldn't have to "grind" if you wanted your character to look a certain way. These rare items were put in the game largely to appease power gamers I imagine and provided no game imbalance, so what was the problem then? The problem is that casual players for some reason have their ego damaged when they can't wield the same skin as someone who plays significantly more than them, and they complain about it. You can't afford the req 8 15>50 crystalline? Then don't buy one, but don't bitch that they should be made cheaper because you feel like you shouldn't have to grind for something that is a wealth symbol and in no way impacts your effectiveness in the game.

Splatter Mcnasty · Jan 22, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

I play guildwars for 2 main reasons:

1. I enjoy creating character builds and figuring out skill combinations.

2. I enjoy creating unique characters, using them, and equipping them with items that take a long time to collect or earn.

Making all weapons inscribable is BAD for me because it increases the likelyhood that other people will be able to equip characters exactly like mine.

I know that my items are statistically equal to what anyone else can get, but the fact that they look different, and have an inherent damage mod that cannot be changed is where the appeal is.

Making everything inscribable will make it easier to get any item you want, thereby removing the challenge of working a long time to get that perfect weapon with the desired skin.

Sir Skullcrasher · Jan 22, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

If they really want to kill off the price level for the Crystallines swords, they would open up the drop-rate and maybe put it in a special chest that peoples can have easy access to get it.

Like many peoples had said, making the sword inscribable doesn't mean the value will drop since the drop-rate is already low and not everyone here in Guild Wars will ever get a chance to win Hall (like me for example) to get a shot at a crystalline sword.

lyra_song · Jan 22, 2007, 07:32 PM // 19:32

What do guys think of the Torment weapons?

Its obviously vanity weapons aimed more at the collectors rather than the casual player (imo anyway).

Do you feel offering these expensive weapons is a good step for Anet to please the collectors regardless of wether its inscribable or not??

To the collectors: The crystalline issue aside, what do you imagine Anet could do to please your specific niche of players?

Jetdoc · Jan 22, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

To the collectors: The crystalline issue aside, what do you imagine Anet could do to please your specific niche of players?

The obvious solution (which I originally applauded A-Net for) was to keep non-Nightfall weapons uninscribable. Now since that appears to have gone by the wayside (if A-Net continues the trend beyond crystallines)...

The best suggestion I've heard is to put a weapon/shield/offhand crafter in the FoW that requires ectos and shards to craft on par with the armor. Make items obtained in that manner customized to the player (e.g. much like preorder/bonus items) that crafts them, and make those skins unattainable by any other means.

This gives hardcore PvEers a relatively difficult goal to obtain (like FoW armor), but makes that goal accessible to all at the same baseline price.

The Herbalizer · Jan 22, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

What do guys think of the Torment weapons?

Its obviously vanity weapons aimed more at the collectors rather than the casual player (imo anyway).

Do you feel offering these expensive weapons is a good step for Anet to please the collectors regardless of wether its inscribable or not??

To the collectors: The crystalline issue aside, what do you imagine Anet could do to please your specific niche of players?

Its too late for Anet to do anything now. Just about every serious collector is gone and I doubt will ever return. I prefered it when I could not afford stuff. When a +30hp -2 stance eternal shield would sell for like 5 million gold or when inperfect items were rare and worth something. It was exciting back then and I could never afford alot of the stuff being sold yet wanted it badly, I never once demanded that the drop rate should increase.

The Torment weapons are a little too late seeing as there are like a couple at the most serious item collectors playing now. And if Anet tried to please collectors they failed, as one type of skin out of all of Nightfall wont cut it. Look at Prophecies and there are a wide selection of rare skinned items, well there used to be. Factions sucked for items and was a disaster imo.

Anet have drove an entire "sub-section" of the community away when it could have been prevented. And no, Guild Wars is not about lack of grind it is about balance. Big difference. If it was about no grind there would be no fow armor.

I did have a solution but it is too complicated to lay out in the small amount of time I have left. Well anyway, my idea would never happen as its too late into Guild Wars history now. Now good adding ultra rare items if there is a lacking of people to afford them as they all quit.

Carinae · Jan 22, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

The obvious solution (which I originally applauded A-Net for) was to keep non-Nightfall weapons uninscribable. Now since that appears to have gone by the wayside (if A-Net continues the trend beyond crystallines)...

Both HoH and FoW are accessible from Nightfall without any other requirements, so I expected this move. I can't believe more people didn't as well.

Is it ALL drops from FoW? or just quest reward chests?

Splatter Mcnasty · Jan 22, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

What do guys think of the Torment weapons?

Fugly comes to mind...

If they are going to continue with this trend by adding ultra high-end weapon crafters, then they need to make a broader selection of skins. Otherwise, its the same problem: lack of diversity/uniqueness among the players who are high-end collectors.

...and they need to fire the retard who designed the Tormented items, and give a raise to the guy who designed the Dwarven Axe....

Jeremy Untouchable · Jan 22, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I guess anet has disided that 35 or 40 people selling the best items back and forth to eachother forever and for prices that the normal player will never afford short of "illgotten" gold is not there vision of the game...

The mass's will most likely enjoy the chance to use these weapons.

I will say this, before factions most of our 90+ member guild was useing crappy weapons. With inscriptions and increased drops, most of the guild now has really nice req 9 15>50 axes,swords,etc...Gameplay as a whole has improved.

NOW, yes it is harder to make money now, however with normal play you will find most things you need as you play, with "do not touch" and such added to the game there isnt a reason to complain..Any new players starting now will be farming for a long time to get FOW armor. But that is as it should be...I say welcome the changes and have fun, or play something else....

Good day

big papi · Jan 22, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

anet fails.....the magic of chapter 1 is gone and i cant see it ever coming back

/end spam

reetkever · Jan 22, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

So, all you whiners are basically saying that you played the game so far because there were no inscriptions LOL

What would have been your opinion of the game if A.net had put inscriptions on weapons since Prophecies 1st release?

Whan they released GWP, they decided that i.e. swords could be upgraded with a pommel and a hilt, and left the inherent bonus unmodifiable.

Because of this decision, one of the possible among many, players have created the myth of the "godly weapon", the req. 8 15>50.
And from some posts here, it seems that for them the only and unique reason to play the game is being able to afford one of those weapons that they, artificially, have defined "godly".

So, if in the release notes of GWP in April 2005 A.net had written "you can upgrade your weapons changing the pommel, the hilt and the damage modifier", you are saying that you wouldn't have bought the game at all?

In my opinion, it was a HUGE mistake that A.net didn't introduce inscriptions earlier and waited until the 3rd chapter.
This has generated in the poor minds of "some" kind of customers the expectation that GW could be another of the thousand sh..ty item-based MMOGs, with the advantage of the best graphics and also without monthly fee.

For all of you that say that GWN is a 2-3 day game, please consider that you belong to an insignificant minority that can play 12+ hrs per day. I play 2-3 hours and it takes me at least 15-20 days to finish the main story with one char, and since I also like to collect skins "I" like (gothic sword, summit axes, sun&moon shield, ele staffs and so on) and get 15k or vabbian armors, I also have to spend some time farming for cash and checking auctions.
Since I like to have those nice skins and armors, I don't have time to do many other things, like PvP or acquiring titles for instance.
So for me the game is very unlikely to be considered finished in 2-3 days. This is an exaggeration of someone who I don't consider an hardcore player, I would say someone who needs a good psychiatrist.

Inscriptions have given me the possibility to actually FIND usable items that before were simply unexisting, being them fellblades or divine staffs.

I'm still waiting that A.net makes inscribable raven staffs drop somewhere, I like that skin and nowadays they have actually disappeared.

Farming is what keeps me playing this game, I did the storyline about 8 times by now, and I want to get some bling bling for my warrior cause she deserves it after doing prophecies, factions and nightfall, getting a few titles and working her @$$ off in alliance battles. Farming with the thought of once being able to afford a crystalline or FoW is what keeps me hooked. And of course my guildmates.

Now, A-net nerfed the reason I play this game, cause when I get a 15^50 req 8/9 crystalline sword now, everyone and his mother has one. There is a reason why the inherit damage mod was unchangable. That reason is bling bling.

CASUAL PLAYERS DO NOT NEED GOLD OR RARE WEAPONS. Casual players have collector's weapons, and with that, 15^50 weapons are available to everyone. Gold weapons are for the more wealthy classes which do more than questing, and want to pimp their characters. This shouldn't be cheap at all, as it's nothing more but unneeded and for the players who want to spend cash for weapons with the same stats but other skins.

I didn't buy the game because of the crystalline swords, I didn't even know of their existance the first 5 months I played. But now about a year later, I want to do more than doing the same quests and missions over again. I want to work for something that is nearly impossible to get, like a req 8 15^50 crystalline sword. Oh, and I play 3 hours a day and I beat Nightfall in 3 days. It's not that hard, really. That's where farming kicks in. Rare skins, FoW armor etc should be endgame goals, which you can only get after being VERY lucky, or to work VERY hard for it. And what's wrong with working very hard for it? Now after all the hard work, the reward is that the item I want got nerfed and it lost it's original value. Only thing I want now is FoW armor, and after that it's game over for me, unless A-net introduces something new to actually work for instead of just whining and waiting for it to get nerfed. Rare weapons are SUPPOSED to be practically unexisting. That's why they're called RARE. (Game even called them rare before they gave the weapon text colours)

Oh and about the Raven Staff, there is no demand for them cause everyone can get one. That's why everyone just sells to merch. And this is EXACTLY what will happen with other weapons when there is no demand cause they're so available.

SodOffShotgun · Jan 22, 2007, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Moderator note: Telling someone to go play another game is considered flaming.

Say WHAT?!?!?!?!?!??!!!

I knew the rules were a bit weird but how in hell does telling someone to play another game considered flaming? If people are complaining about aspects of the game that GW simply doesnt offer or isnt really part of it's design, how is telling people to go play a game that DOES have what these people are looking for, considered flaming?

And I see you Savio telling people to find another guild if they don't like the one they're in. Isnt that the same thing? Arent you flaming? How about telling people to farm more and to stop being lazy? Isnt that even "worse" than telling someone to play another game?

Hell, so many of the power traders in this thread have called people lazy and stupid just because the average person doesnt want to farm millions to buy a single sword. How is that not flaming? That's some heavy bias going on...

And people are far far overreacting over a sword getting inscribed. There are so many things wrong with that picture of overreaction that I dont know where to start and I might get banned for it if even telling someone to play another game is considered flaming.

Splatter Mcnasty · Jan 22, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SodOffShotgun

And people are far far overreacting over a sword getting inscribed. There are so many things wrong with that picture of overreaction that I dont know where to start and I might get banned for it if even telling someone to play another game is considered flaming.

We're not over-reacting over the specific sword getting inscribed, its the principle of ALL weapons getting inscribed that is the issue.

You need to read what people are actually saying, not what they have typed. There is a difference.

SodOffShotgun · Jan 22, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splatter Mcnasty

We're not over-reacting over the specific sword getting inscribed, its the principle of ALL weapons getting inscribed that is the issue.

You need to read what people are actually saying, not what they have typed. There is a difference.

And it still doesnt change the fact that some of you are OVERreacting. Calling ANET stupid is overreacting. Screaming that the game is now dead is overreacting. Calling casual players stupid and lazy is overreacting and outright flaming.

Alfrond · Jan 22, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splatter Mcnasty

Fugly comes to mind...

If they are going to continue with this trend by adding ultra high-end weapon crafters, then they need to make a broader selection of skins. Otherwise, its the same problem: lack of diversity/uniqueness among the players who are high-end collectors.

...and they need to fire the retard who designed the Tormented items, and give a raise to the guy who designed the Dwarven Axe....

Art is subjective. Just becuase you didn't like the tormented items doesn't mean that others will feel the same way. Someone else could say that they hated the dwarven axe and loved the tormented items and their opinion would be just as correct as yours.

the_jos · Jan 22, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

And people are far far overreacting over a sword getting inscribed.

I do think the reaction is quite strong, but I do understand the possible impact on some players.
The Crystalline is one of the rarest items in the game and only a very select few were able to buy them.
Then, all of a sudden, someone found out how to 'farm' them with hench/heroes. And posted how to on the internet.
So now the skin is accessible to more people.
But then the gold skinned version was untouched.

Now, the gold version (low req 15^50) is hit with the inscribable version.
That is, you can build your own 15^50 now if you are lucky enough to get it drop.

It's a bit like you own an Aston Martin and suddenly they start producing cars in the Smart (the little car which looks like a frog in your rear view mirror) price segment.
You have not only bought it for travel, not only for quality (you can get both on cheaper cars), but also because the brand is exclusive.

And that's what taken away now.
The crystalline becomes less and less exclusive every day.

As you can read in my earlier post, I think the original 15^50 can still be considered the exclusive version.
But the purple skinned farmed version and inscribed version do pull the total exclusivity of the 'crystalline brand' down.
I don't know how many hit the market so far this year, but it's probably more than the total amount traded last year in total.

I think that's what really bugs people and I do understand that.