Curse

Domino · Jan 26, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I don't know if Heroes killed GW... but they definitely altered it in a partially negative way.

and while Vanguard does look slightly appealing, I have a feeling it's just going to turn into an Everquest 3 grind-fest.

Aeon_Xin · Jan 26, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirus Dibley

Heroes killed GW = fact.

Anet killed farming = fact

Thankgod for Vanguard where you have to work as a team , come join me brothers - Guild Wars is a sinking ship.

Flamer.
GTFO of the GW forum if you don't like it.

There's a difference between fact and opinion you have yet to learn apparently, I can make several K an hour plus the odd good gold drop, solo.
Farming is not dead, not even close.
Hero's did absolutely nothing to GW, because if you don't like them, you don't use them, but it does allow normal people that don't have 24/7 to sit in their parents basementbasement n play a chance to get through the game without the frustration of ragequitters like you.

Vinraith · Jan 26, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Is it me, or does "heroes killed GW" sound an awful lot like "why won't anyone play with me?" At the end of the day, the PUG crowd seems to be upset that those of us that have friends and guildies to play with, and those of us that like to solo, are no longer forced to team up with them to slog through a mission. Sorry, but from my perspective that's no bad thing.

Those of us that don't want to play with you shouldn't have to. I think it's a safe bet that even if you got your wish and Anet forced us to play with you most of us would quit the game, so we still wouldn't be playing with you. Chasing off the soloers and the folks that enjoy playing with a few friends and guildies, now that might actually be the death of Guild Wars.

Str0b0 · Jan 26, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Wow what game are all these complaints coming from? My Dervish is up to the next to the last mission in Nightfall and I have yet to have a problem getting a group in the end game. It's far from deserted. I think you either have bad luck or just aren't trying hard enough. I mean even with all the dervish hate I can still catch a group. What's up with that? It's just like the people who say" No one plays Factions anymore." Since when? I'm taking my 12th character through factions(2 accounts) and I'm in Luxon controlled territories and I'm still finding groups to do the missions. Difficulty level? Fine. Skills? Fine. I have no comments on PvP since I don't do that anymore. Honestly folks what's the deal here? Are you sure it's the community that is being anti-social or is it just you? You have to be outgoing and you can't expect someone to just pick you up because you spam LFG for fifteen minutes in a town. Make friends, meet new people, have fun with them. That's what the game is all about and I have no problem finding plenty of people to interact with.

Sir Skullcrasher · Jan 26, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Robots (henchies/heroes) better than regular players?

beanerman_99 · Jan 26, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Well I thought this thread had some useful input but others still have to come in and make stuipd statements like Game X > GW. This is the reason the GW community is going down hill, its the players, not everything Anet does or doesn't do.

In my previous posts, I was just trying to point out what I liked about Chapter 1 and how I wish the following chapters would have held a bit more to its structure. I was trying to give ideas, not complaints, on how I would like to see new chapters be laid out. I'm not the most eloquent at getting said ideas across so if I sound like I'm complaining, I do apologize.

There are things I do not like about Factions and NF, but there are also several things in each I do like. The addition of Hero's is one that I personally do like. I don't think they make this game a single player game. Anet gave us the CHOICE to use them (aside from certain quests) or not to use them.

If I have only 30 minutes to sit down and play they are a godsend. I don't have to waste 15 minutes getting a PuG and talking about skill setups and waiting for everyone to go pee or eat or whatever before we start the mission. I just set up my hero's, add some henchs and go.

If I have a lot of time and would like the company of other players I will look for a PuG. I think people expect to much from Pug's though. They want the mission to go perfectly and exactly they way they envision on the first try with NO deviation whatsoever. This is insane.

If you want to be perfect then its YOU who should use hero's and henchs. Leave the PUG to those who are just looking for a good, fun time, those of us who enjoy the unexpected and are kept on our toes, those who don't need 2 ele's, 1 tank, 1 monk and such. Some of the absolute best and most fun PUG's I have been in have been the ones where we let ANY class in until the group is full. You may suprise yourself how many times these teams actually defeat the mission AND get Masters on the first try.

I think I got off topic so I'll stop. But I would like to echo that those of you who pop into a thread and make some BS, smartass comment with out any explanation or back up are a BIG part of the problem with the GW community and more specifically, this forum. IF you don't have time to explain your comments then why, for the love of God, do you even bother to right one sentence. I'm all for freedom of speech, but at least make your speech worthwhile.

HalPlantagenet · Jan 26, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Perhaps.

I'm very fond of Arenanet's evolution of Guild Wars. Heroes, in particular, have added significant new depth to the game and made elite areas much more accessible to small guilds, such as mine.

PuGs have always been a problem. Even in the beginning, for every extraordinary one there were many more that were less than perfect for all kinds of reasons. In my humble opinion, enabling players of all kinds to find PuGs that fit their skill-level, interests, etc. is a very difficult but important problem that merits Arenanet's time, work and creativity as much as the creation of new content.

As for the impending death of Guild Wars, I can only answer for myself and I'm in for the duration as are all of the people we've introduced to the game.

Blackest Rose · Jan 26, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

One point I forgot to make in my previous post ....

Heroes allow you to play "unpopular" classes.
Anyone remember trying to get their sin through factions? Or a mesmer?
Groups are more willing to accept you now as you bring good heroes.
Heroes make all class playing feasible again...

Str0b0 · Jan 26, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

I still maintain that There are people that are worthwhile just waiting out there. Heck just look at the folks here on the forum. I'm sure a lot of people, myself included, would be happy to team up with anyone from this forum and play a mission, do a quest, or just go exploring. I'm not a super runner or some elite farmer but I can follow orders and I can cooperate and I don't rage quit or act like a jack ass just because we make some mistakes along the way.

Perkunas · Jan 26, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

IMO, those who start with Factions, opposed to Prophesies, are 'spoiled' when it comes to leveling. By low level killing, then doing ALL the quests, you could leave 'noob island' a level 20. Try staying in Prophesies pre till you are level 20. With Nightfall, you can start a custom team within the first hour. With Prophesies, your custom team is the guild you are in, if you start right off in a guild and if the guild jumps in immediately and is there everytime you come online to do your bidding.

As for PuG's being a 'problem', not one person started this game knowing what to use and not use. Every single one of us had/have to learn by trial and error. That noob asking a question was you once upon a time.

The problem I see with this game is as with other rpg games I have played, the veterans don't want to be bothered by the noobs and their messed up skill bars, their lack of knowledge. The vets feel like Shaquile O'Neil playing on a high school team, forgetting that they started there. Instead of complaining about bad pugs, help them learn the game. The best teacher is the person who has been there, done that.

Loviatar · Jan 26, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

NOTE THIS

addressed to everybody saying heroes will turn GW into a single player RPG

have any of you acrually READ THE BOX IT CAME IN?

FOR THOSE WHO DIDNT BOTHER EVEN READING THE BOX FEAST YOUR SQUINTY PEEPERS ON THIS QUOTE

Quote:

ITS YOUR ADVENTURE
JUMP RIGHT INTO A WORLD OF THOUSANDS WHERE EACH MISSION IS CREATED JUST FOR YOU.

LIVE A FAST PACED ADVENTURE WITHOUT TRAVEL TIME DELAY, HIGH DEATH PENALTIES, OR SPAWN CAMPING.

JOIN WITH FRIENDS OR PLAY SOLO WITH A BAND OF SKILLFUL HENCHMEN.

Jeff Strain said it in an interview

it is on the game boxes.

it was made to be a single player RPG with friends optional if that is how you want it.

Grais · Jan 26, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I dont want people to get the idea I am anti Hero, Im not, I love the idea, I love using them, equipping them, I love everything about Heroes.
I just dont love the effect they seem to have had on the community. Thats is all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anghardel

Saying that someone should bugger off if they have complaints about the game's system is complete BS. Just because you don't like something does not in any way mean that you must simply stop playing. If you care about a game you WILL criticize. That is what makes everything in this world the best it can be: criticism, reexamination, and improvement.

Thank you for that, it needed to be said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanerman_99

I think the threads about this issue are about complaining WITHOUT any constructive ideas or reasons why things have changed. What I think players should do is look at the reasons why they love Prophecies so much and then look at what changes in the new chapters has hurt gameplay in their minds.

I hear you hear loud and clear.
In fact I feel like I'm letting the community down, because I can't really suggest what they should do, its not that I dont want too, I just havent been struck with the bolt of inspiration I need.
But when and if I do, I will be letting the community know.
I think some excellent points have been made, some of theposts are so well thought out, and well put, you know these are players who care deepley about what they speak.
I hope someone from Anet finds the time to read this sucker.

Quote:

This whole thread is a troll/complaint/stfu thread though, and I think it needs to be closed, it became one big outlet for complaints.

Then you have so far missed the point I feel sorry for you.

SodOffShotgun · Jan 26, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perkunas

The problem I see with this game is as with other rpg games I have played, the veterans don't want to be bothered by the noobs and their messed up skill bars, their lack of knowledge. The vets feel like Shaquile O'Neil playing on a high school team, forgetting that they started there. Instead of complaining about bad pugs, help them learn the game. The best teacher is the person who has been there, done that.

The real problem isnt just "noobs" who don't know the game. It's immaturity and bad attitude of so many in the GW community. I dont mind at all teaching the ropes to someone new. But I got sick of the crappy attitudes of the ignorant and people who just get off on pissing people off. You can't teach them anything because they arent there to learn.

And why are there so many idiots in this thread coming in here to troll with stuff like "Vanguard>GW. GW is dead, I dont play anymore" If you're not playing anymore then leave us alone and stop trolling here.

HalPlantagenet · Jan 26, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SodOffShotgun

The real problem isnt just "noobs" who don't know the game. It's immaturity and bad attitude of so many in the GW community. I dont mind at all teaching the ropes to someone new.

Exactly. I have been and remain more than willing to play with and coach players less skilled than I and greatly enjoy playing with those that are better. It was in a pick up group that I first observed how extraordinary a good monk can be, just to name one instance. Heroes haven't changed that at all.

For me, it comes down to basic social skills which, as the chat lines constantly remind us, are less than well developed in a significant, vocal minority. For others there may be other issues. I'm merely suggesting that PuGs could thrive with the proper recruiting/search tools, towards which Arenanet has taken a timid first step.

Wretchman Drake · Jan 26, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

To me Guild Wars was primarily designed as a PvP game in the long run. Do you see heroes in there? No.

PvE is much different than PvP. Almost like 2 different worlds. Because in PvP I don't have a problem with getting or making groups, even socializing.

If you're looking for socialization, there are different districts in towns not just district 1, 2 or w/e...

Age · Jan 26, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I kinda agree and disagree.
When I quitted guilds, having no Tag nor Cape gave me a lot of whispering.
Finding a guild is easy.
If you're not pleased with your guild, warn your guild leader and leave. As soon as you will be in town you'll get a lot of whisper for joining.
There is no "good guild". There is "like minded" guilds. Guilds for fun. Guilds for hardcore PVE. Guilds for HArdcore PvP. RP guilds. Guilds with only 18+ guys in. Guilds with only girls. Only some of them may suit you.
However I agree recruting has become difficult. Not because there is a lack of players. But because too much players nowadays see guilds as a supermarket. When they join, they ask for help, items, plats or whatever, and when it comes to ask them for a GvG or HoH, nobody's here.
The issue here is not recruting, it is recruting the good people.
GW's community will feel better when most of players will stop asking what their guild can do for them, and start awondering what they can do for their guild.

That would be something to think about but I am the guilf leader of my Guilf that I was appointed leader of so It is mine now.I have thought putting the founder back as leader then leaving but I would hate to see another Beta guild drop off.there have been severla beta guilds that died atfer the 5 months of release of Prophecies as to UAS mostly PvP.There is one thing you said that when you join a guild it becomes your guild not just the leader and i have had some asking me about getting help for thier armour which I won't.This is the most thing I find fustrating about the game right now.I prefer not to recruit in game as well.

Lord Dobo · Jan 27, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

I see a lot of posts saying that this is a bash GW thread. I don't think that the OP meant it as that or was trying to troll in any way. I also see posters suggest that we make suggestions on what how to improve things, so, although this is the wrong area for it, I'll make a couple, why not.

On skills.
There is nothing that can be done to realistically change the games that have already been released when it comes to the learning of new skills other than perhaps to lower the cost or to provide a new way to earn them. Perhaps if some monsters, possibly boss monsters, dropped uncommon tokens that allowed you to bypass the cost of buying a new skill? You could make it specific to the character that earned it, or you can allow it to be traded. Trading it would be limited to a price under 1k because you could buy the skill at 1k anyhow. Perhaps the token could even be part of a spread of new challange missions, though I like the random boss drops better.
In the next chapter, I feel that a slower pace should be in place, unlocking all the core skills and a nice selection of new skills for your class over the course of the game, with thought given to the balance of the skills earned to the new areas.

On travel.
All this would be moot if the current ability to jump between campaigns continued. As is, I can take a tyrian character to Lion's Arch and hop over to Cantha for an extremely quick fed-ex level boost. I think this needs to stop. For the game to maintain any integrity, a limit on travel needs to be imposed. Their greatest asset here already exists, namely the Temple of Balthazar. I feel that a character who has not yet traveled to a new champaign should first travel here and meet a simple level requirement in order to move on. Travel to Cantha would require a higher level character more in fitting with the high level mobs right outside the city, while a trip to Elona would be set at a lower level to match the quests and missions that await you in Kourna and beyond. Higher level characters would not be held back while the lower ones would not be allowed to rocket ahead too fast. Power leveling would still be an option, just in the proper setting first.

On trading.
Spam is a pet peve and I think the only way to stop it is to make imporvments to the trading system. Either create an auction house and let players try and get what they can or create more sensible merchants and traders. Priests of Balthazar already have the capability of showing you most the runes and inscriptions in the game anyhow, I don't imagine it would be to much of a streach od the dev's muscle to create mod traders and the like. With a little innovation, you could even determine a fair price for most Gold items and I beleive this will stop most of the spamming. It won't stop it all, people could still try to undercut the prices, but I feel it would unclutter the vast majority of spam. I know a huge percentage of you reading this probably would hate what it would do to prices, but if you have any merchantile sense, you guys would still stay ahead of the curve and become wealthy. The wealth LEVEL would remain at the same ratio.

On advancement.
This ties into skills. If you take the time to face difficult situations and don't shoot through the levels too fast, I feel that your overall appreciation of your skillbar will increase allowing you the opportunity to find uses for skills you would never have thought possible. Mobs need to be UNBALANCED in certain training areas. I know this sounds crazy, but one mesmer in a mob you might not notice, but you feel what it is a mesmer can do when you can't avoid an overwhelming mob of them. This of course only belongs in certain areas, areas meant to train you. As you advance, mobs should rely more on synergy as opposed to sheer numbers or levels. I would much rather be frustrated by my defeat by a mob using brilliantly chosen skill bars than a mob that just happens to be 8 levels above my own, outnumbers me by two to one, and somehow manages to call in another two mobs from a patrol I needed three minutes of standing around to notice. I might even learn a thing or two about how to manage a team build if my enemies impressed me.

On farming.
I made lots of money farming, but I can stand to see some changes if it helped everyone out and stopped the nerf train. I propose something a little drastic. What if you COULDN'T go into an certain areas solo? I know that makes me hated right now because I solo farm all the time and understand the draw. But WHAT IF anet was given a little control back over how much money we could make in certain fair areas?

Imagine a small map created for the purpose of farming. A map with many new towns, maybe a fronteir or the site of ancient cities and ancient battles. Some towns would include solo maps built for specific classes that allowed you to farm solo to your hearts content against enemies that were built to challange your specific builds. There could be a rotation of maps that were periodically updated to remain fresh... new enemies, new tactics, even new treasurebuilt for your class only. New greens could be introduced all the time. The build crafters out there would be always watching for updates and creating new builds while anet could control the rate that gold came into our pockets. THose that wanted to grind longer would be earning it in a more "legitimate" fashion that they would never need to nerf because they would update the areas to keep us on our toes. It would be simple programing and could craw from creatures from ALL the campaings if the story conditions were right. Arena anyone?

And WHAT IF PUGS became important again because some of the more random but cool loot could only be obtain from areas that need 4, 6, or 8 real people to access? The missions coould cycle between 10-20 types of spawns that all had something worthwhile about them, but needed different skills to take on. Maybe we could see people taking classes they wouldn't before because they had a chance of coming across a mob that needed an assassins touch or could benefit from a ritualist's spirits. Area's could be keyed to randomly determine 3-4 area effects that popped up in certain spots near mobs that made you glad you brought along that person you might not have brought along if you stuck to a cookie cutter team build. The people that pushed further into a territory, who stuck with the pug they got, and who communicated well and played correctly would be rewarded by better loot further in.

Just some ideas, I also have some about how they could improve their storytelling and immersion by making the path you take more dynamic and branching. Imagine a city under siege that allowed you 3-4 different ways in... maps that already existed, but had mobs and events altered to the party leader's sting of events. People who needed that same path in could bring heros if needed or join with similar people, and once in, the other 2-3 maps would turn into missions of defense or espionage. Once done with the game, you could go back with the same toon or even use your other toons to experience the story from different angles.

Just thoughts.

mazter · Jan 27, 2007, 03:35 AM // 03:35

[PUG MODE ON/]Long live Olias!![PUG MODE OFF/]

Pwny Ride · Jan 27, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackest Rose

One point I forgot to make in my previous post ....

Heroes allow you to play "unpopular" classes.
Anyone remember trying to get their sin through factions? Or a mesmer?
Groups are more willing to accept you now as you bring good heroes.
Heroes make all class playing feasible again...

Thats a ridiculous statement. I can tell you ANY group would take a mesmer, they have a good reputation. Maybe uncommon, but it was a breeze for me and everyone i know with an assassin or a mesmer.

If its difficult its the fault of the player, not the community. If anyone has it hard it would be warriors. Also a high majority of people would rather humans > heroes, and this is a FACT. Take monks for example, would you rather human or hero?

i know my choice.

Perkunas · Jan 27, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

To me Guild Wars was primarily designed as a PvP game in the long run. Do you see heroes in there? No.

If this is true, why is there 25 (PvE) missions, who knows how many (PvE) quests, and in the beginning, 8 PvP arenas? Just asking.

Let's don't turn this into PvP vs PvE.