Curse

Redfeather1975 · Feb 08, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

In the latest PvP Primer, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know!
When reading that primer it's saying something about what happens when you get interrupted that looks backwards.

First, you stop casting the spell or activating the skill you were trying to use. You also lose the Energy or adrenaline cost of that skill. The skill does not incur its recharge time, however, so you may attempt to recast a spell immediately after interruption. Keep in mind that you do have to wait for aftercast (the one-second delay after casting a spell in which you cannot cast another spell) to expire before recasting. The same effect applies if you get knocked down while casting; you still lose the Energy cost of the skill.

As far as I know, normal recharge applies, and there is no aftercast from the interrupted skill.
Unless they completely changed how interrupted skills go.

zwei2stein · Feb 08, 2007, 10:20 AM // 10:20

he is not talking about interuption, he is talking about what happens when you cancel skill activation yourself ("Esc" key, moving character by wasd ), in that case he is absolutelly correct.

It is viable strategy to, i.e. "Fake" healsig/troll/e-feast to make your foe fire interupt, which is wasted and then you can use skill safely because foes interupt is recharging.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 08, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

I don't see the term cancel there.
It goes straight from talking about understanding what happens when you are interrupted to talking about how the skill is stopped and recharge does not incur. Also it specifically says 'The skill does not incur its recharge time, however, so you may attempt to recast a spell immediately after interruption.'

Quote:

Using spells and skills helps you destroy your foes quicker, so it's frustrating when your attempts are thwarted by characters who can interrupt you. Understanding what exactly happens when you're interrupted can help you recover quicker and keep the situation from going from bad to worse.

First, you stop casting the spell or activating the skill you were trying to use. You also lose the Energy or adrenaline cost of that skill. The skill does not incur its recharge time, however, so you may attempt to recast a spell immediately after interruption. Keep in mind that you do have to wait for aftercast (the one-second delay after casting a spell in which you cannot cast another spell) to expire before recasting. The same effect applies if you get knocked down while casting; you still lose the Energy cost of the skill.

If it was about canceling skills, it needs to be reworded to include the word cancel instead of interrupted and the last part about knockdown applying the same effect needs to be taken out altogether.

Alleji · Feb 08, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

It's poorly written, but it's talking about canclelling a skill. He probably edited out a connecting paragraph but forgot to edit the next to make sense... or something.

lyra_song · Feb 08, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

First, you stop casting the spell or activating the skill you were trying to use.

He doesnt say cancel...he says stop casting or stop activating.

Anyway...anyone who's ever done Heal Sig, Down, Heal Sig, Down, Heal Sig, Down, just to do the annoying cancel sound knows this all too well ^_^

Burst Cancel · Feb 08, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

The way I read it, his second paragraph describes what happens when you get interrupted, in which case it is simply wrong. Nowhere does he say that you cancel it youself, and you'll notice that the connecting sentence from the first paragraph is: "Understanding what exactly happens when you're interrupted ...".

I suppose it's possible that there is a paragraph missing between the first and the second, but as it is currently written, it is wrong, period.

lyra_song · Feb 08, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Hmn..ok i guess now im confused.

@_@

fallot · Feb 08, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Maybe he was trying to talk about how to cancel skills to prevent them from being interrupted (and what would happen when you do so) ? It's totally wrong as it is though, really very sad.

Seef II · Feb 08, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

I noticed this error as well, myself.
If you are *interrupted*, e.g., by a power leak, your spell recharges.
If a skill of yours *fails*, e.g., via spellbreaker, you lose any energy spent but the spell is available for immediate reuse.
The same goes if you cancel a spell.

You can't cancel attack skills, and outside of Mega Snowball there're no spells that explicitly depend on adrenaline.

XvArchonvX · Feb 08, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02

I really don't see what people are having trouble with here:

"stop casting the spell or activating the skill you were trying to use"
i.e. you hit escape, have your skill temporarily disabled (i.e. by something like using Tiger's Fury while in the middle of castng Troll Unguent) or move mid-cast to cancel your cast.

"...however, so you may attempt to recast a spell immediately after interruption."
i.e. you are interupted by your own act of cancelling out your action by hitting escape, your skill being temporarily disabled or moving mid cast. Nowhere is there any reference to anyone interupting you.

Perhaps there was confusion by the usage of the term "interupted" since it is typically a term used with being interupted by result of an outsider's action, but it is still a legitamate usage of the word to apply it to interuption from one's own action.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seef II

You can't cancel attack skills, and outside of Mega Snowball there're no spells that explicitly depend on adrenaline.

I have a counter example:
[skill]Mighty Throw[/skill]

Burst Cancel · Feb 08, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

"stop casting the spell or activating the skill you were trying to use"
i.e. you hit escape, have your skill temporarily disabled (i.e. by something like using Tiger's Fury while in the middle of castng Troll Unguent) or move mid-cast to cancel your cast.

Incorrect. The exact quote is "First, you stop casting the spell or activating the skill you were trying to use.", and the context is the previous sentence, "Understanding what exactly happens when you're interrupted can help you recover quicker and keep the situation from going from bad to worse." The article is not instructing you to do something, the article is explaining to you what happens when you are interrupted - specifically, interrupted by other players, as opposed to by yourself. Read the first sentence of the first paragraph again: "Using spells and skills helps you destroy your foes quicker, so it's frustrating when your attempts are thwarted by characters who can interrupt you." (emphasis mine)

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

"...however, so you may attempt to recast a spell immediately after interruption."
i.e. you are interupted by your own act of cancelling out your action by hitting escape, your skill being temporarily disabled or moving mid cast. Nowhere is there any reference to anyone interupting you.

Actually, you have stated the exact opposite of what the passage states. First, nowhere does he say anything about cancelling your own action. Second, there *is* a reference to being interrupted by someone else, which I quoted above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Perhaps there was confusion by the usage of the term "interupted" since it is typically a term used with being interupted by result of an outsider's action, but it is still a legitamate usage of the word to apply it to interuption from one's own action.

There is no confusion. The two paragraphs, when taken together, can only mean one thing. Perhaps you are in the habit of taking things out of context, but the context in this case is quite clear, and it is equally clear that the article is wrong.

Seef II · Feb 08, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I have a counter example:
[skill]Mighty Throw[/skill]

Please actually try it ingame before posting.

When (if?) will the error be corrected? Right now, the article describes a failed skill, when it's discussing interruption.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 08, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I don't know.
I sent an email and will see if it was an error or just worded strangely.:O

ikpt · Feb 08, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

With my special reading comprehension, I see the article stating those "facts" as based on being interrupted, in which case the thread-starter is 100% correct.

JoeKnowMo · Feb 09, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

I love it when a primer contains misinformation :P

The description about what happens when you get interrupted only applies to a skill you interrupt yourself or a failed skill or if you have [skill=text]Persistence Of Memory[/skill] on yourself. Oh wait, PoM doesn't apply to knockdowns...

What saddens me is that this guy and the Scribe are getting paid

XvArchonvX · Feb 09, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Incorrect. The exact quote is "First, you stop casting the spell or activating the skill you were trying to use.", and the context is the previous sentence, "Understanding what exactly happens when you're interrupted can help you recover quicker and keep the situation from going from bad to worse." The article is not instructing you to do something, the article is explaining to you what happens when you are interrupted - specifically, interrupted by other players, as opposed to by yourself. Read the first sentence of the first paragraph again: "Using spells and skills helps you destroy your foes quicker, so it's frustrating when your attempts are thwarted by characters who can interrupt you." (emphasis mine)

Actually, you have stated the exact opposite of what the passage states. First, nowhere does he say anything about cancelling your own action. Second, there *is* a reference to being interrupted by someone else, which I quoted above.

There is no confusion. The two paragraphs, when taken together, can only mean one thing. Perhaps you are in the habit of taking things out of context, but the context in this case is quite clear, and it is equally clear that the article is wrong.

I had taken the context as quoted by the OP which states nowhere that the interuption was from an outside source. With the preceeding paragraph included, I can understand where you are coming from and agree that this is a pretty bad error on the part of whoever wrote the Primer. It looks like as Alleji said, that it is missing a paragraph, since the quoted paragraph describes skill cancelling, rather than being interupted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seef II

Please actually try it ingame before posting.

If you mean in terms of cancelling by virtue of stepping backwards or pressing escape, yes, but there are methods of disabling your own attack skills that can cause you to interupt yourself (and I guess technically any attack skill since they are not instantaneous like stances). If you want an example of a skill that can be self cancelled by pressing escape, then I have a better example:
[skill]Lion's Comfort[/skill]

Asplode · Feb 09, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Okay well I didn't take the time to read thru all the replies, but two points to make:

1) If you cancel a skill, you don't incur aftercast.
2) Aftercast is 0.75s, not 1s.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 10, 2007, 08:16 AM // 08:16

XvArchonvX, it's pretty clear now that it's talking about being interrupted.
Otherwise it would not say that getting knocked down has the same effect as what is described, as getting knocked down is not the same as canceling skills it's the same as getting interrupted.
What is being described is how Everquest 2 handles knockdowns and interrupts though. I wonder if the person who wrote it was thinking about Everquest 2's knockdowns and interrupts. lol

XvArchonvX · Feb 11, 2007, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

XvArchonvX, it's pretty clear now that it's talking about being interrupted.
Otherwise it would not say that getting knocked down has the same effect as what is described, as getting knocked down is not the same as canceling skills it's the same as getting interrupted.
What is being described is how Everquest 2 handles knockdowns and interrupts though. I wonder if the person who wrote it was thinking about Everquest 2's knockdowns and interrupts. lol

Considering that several people here have said that he's talking about being cancelled, it's not very clear. It may be about being interupted, but it's not clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PvP Primer

Using spells and skills helps you destroy your foes quicker, so it's frustrating when your attempts are thwarted by characters who can interrupt you. Understanding what exactly happens when you're interrupted can help you recover quicker and keep the situation from going from bad to worse.

First, you stop casting the spell or activating the skill you were trying to use. You also lose the Energy or adrenaline cost of that skill. The skill does not incur its recharge time, however, so you may attempt to recast a spell immediately after interruption. Keep in mind that you do have to wait for aftercast (the one-second delay after casting a spell in which you cannot cast another spell) to expire before recasting. The same effect applies if you get knocked down while casting; you still lose the Energy cost of the skill.

Put the first paragraph into context and it the flaw in the article is a lot more apparent.

Thock · Feb 11, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

The skill does not incur its recharge time,

Interrupted = recharge
Cancel = no recharge

Quote:

however, so you may attempt to recast a spell immediately after interruption. Keep in mind that you do have to wait for aftercast (the one-second delay after casting a spell in which you cannot cast another spell) to expire before recasting.

Interrupted = aftercast
Cancel = no aftercast

Either way the article is wrong. Also I believe the standard aftercast is .75 seconds not 1 second. I know there are some skills with longer aftercasts like ranger interrupts.