Curse

Shadis · Feb 10, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

So, yeah, alternate access to Elite Missions? That was promised in July, correct?

A few of us still remember that assurance. Sadly it seems most of the community seems to have let go of that dream. A.net hasn't even said a word about it since then.

Information would be welcome!

Kakumei · Feb 10, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikpt

And what does it bring to the game? Absolutely nothing. That's what we mean when we say it isn't a big update. Time spent on that could have been spent on an actual trading system, but no, now the lips move in cutscenes. Great.

To be fair, there was a ridiculous number of people whining about how the lips didn't move in cutscenes. Yes, more have probably asked about trade, but still, the number of people who are bothered by simple voiceovers is mindboggling.

BryanM · Feb 10, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikpt

Time spent on that could have been spent on an actual trading system, but no, now the lips move in cutscenes.

Also it probably was just a junior programmer and an animator who were working on the lip sync deal. There's only so many people you can throw at a single problem before they begin to clog up the pipeline and gunk up the gears.

I agree with you that it doesn't affect the gameplay at all. It's okay.

Hellgate London will be out later this year, other games there will be eventually, etc.

The Ernada · Feb 10, 2007, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanM

Sigh.

Right back at you. In any business model, with almost any product the plan is to get people back to buy their next product. They'll add incentives or create a want or need so that people will buy. Does that really mean it's an ongoing payment model? Not really.

If I bought Half Life and then bought Half Life 2, does that mean there was some sort of ongoing payment model? It's not a ongoing payment model if buying the next Chapter is OPTIONAL and not MANDATORY, no matter how attractive the next Chapter is.

You might have a leg to stand on with PVP and staying competitive, but even that is something that you have control over whether to spend more or not. This is not like rent where either you pay or you get kicked out, GW is more like paying the deposit on an apartment and getting to live there forever and only paying if you want additions to the house.

VitisVinifera · Feb 10, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

So, yeah, alternate access to Elite Missions? That was promised in July, correct?

Did you catch that thread (don't remember), where I brought this up, and Gaile responded? She basically said, that while this weekend's free access isn't THE change, it is A change.

I wanted to e-slap her

ikpt · Feb 10, 2007, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

Did you catch that thread (don't remember), where I brought this up, and Gaile responded? She basically said, that while this weekend's free access isn't THE change, it is A change.

I wanted to e-slap her

Yeah, anyone who's been around for a while and really kept up with the dev communications via Gaile would not be surprised about that. That's how communication has been for a while.

1. Question A.
2. Promise A.
3. Deliver "B" with the label of "A".
4. Blame reader comprehension for not knowing better. (that whole content vs. feature garbage? lol)

VitisVinifera · Feb 10, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikpt

Yeah, anyone who's been around for a while and really kept up with the dev communications via Gaile would not be surprised about that. That's how communication has been for a while.

1. Question A.
2. Promise A.
3. Deliver "B" with the label of "A".
4. Blame reader comprehension for not knowing better. (that whole content vs. feature garbage? lol)

This brings to light another gripe I have. It's unfair of me to want to 'e-slap' her (hehe), because she's caught in an impossible position: the disconnect between the devs and the customers is at an all-time high, and she's stuck in the position where she has to make the two ends meet. She can't force the devs to address an issue many of us have serious concerns about -- instead she acknowledges a the problem and promises its fix. Meanwhile, the devs are spending their time with what they think is most important, that being the Paragons 'needing' to be nerfed six feet under, and what everyone has been hollaring for: lip-synching /sarcasm

and in the midst of all this, when there are gaping problems with the game, the devs send gaile back to us with, hey don't look at that stinky old problem, there's a shiny new event to distract you!

in this i see a great irony

ikpt · Feb 10, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Ah, my post you quoted probably makes it sound like I find Gaile to fault for that disconnect, so I should clarify here:

I don't (except for that time she blamed the readers, but that was defensive on her part, but still). I blame the developers. Or whoever is in charge of the developers giving information to Gaile, so Gaile can give that same information to us. Not her interpretation, not her guess, not the result of her lucky coin flip. But the actual information. Seeing the last 2 weeks, it's almost as if the developers play an entirely different game or live in a bubble. They may not even speak the same language as Gaile or the customers*, at this point. I think this paragon nerf is evidence of that.

Ultimately, something should start changing in this matter, I think.

CDittric77 · Feb 10, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Tell that to the mass of people that complained about the lack of lip synching.

Trolls are always unahppy with something - that's why they are trolls! Anything you can do they can do better...they can do anything better than you!

manitoba1073 · Feb 11, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

I chaulk it up to Anet using bandaid to cover a flesh wound type of thing.

VitisVinifera · Feb 11, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

who the hell complained about lack of lip synching? Everyone just skips the scene anyway (except PvPers who don't even care)

colossal waste of time considering the very fundamental broken aspects of this game

Meat Axe · Feb 11, 2007, 01:17 AM // 01:17

I quite enjoy the cutscenes. I'm a huge fan of a solid storyline, and how it progresses, so I always watch the cutscenes instead of just skipping ahead so that I can get to the end quicker. What was that hundreds of people have said throughout history? It's a cliche, yes, but the journey is the worthier part.

But, besides that, I was really really impressed that they did all the cutscenes for all of Prophecies and Factions. That would have taken a long time. But it's not like they had the entire team working on it. It's not like they only have one computer that everyone crowds around and takes their turn at making contributions. It's a software development company, and anyone who has studied software development, even briefly, the first thing they tell you is that it's a team job, and that it's more efficient to allocate people to different areas of the development. So stop complaining about "Instead of bringing me such and such a change, they brought lip synching! I feel gyped!" because they would have been completely different teams.

I read these posts and I think "God, why are you still playing the game if you feel you're being ripped off?" If you get ripped off at a restaurant, you don't keep going back to the same one. I, on the other hand, appreciate everything this restaurant is doing for me, and will keep coming back.

Coridan · Feb 11, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

I chaulk it up to Anet using bandaid to cover a flesh wound type of thing.

Everyone at Anet must be paragons

pingu666 · Feb 11, 2007, 01:33 AM // 01:33

i actully quite liked the lip syncing...

Sooty · Feb 11, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Storage and trade improvements have been promised since before factions came out yet we're still waiting on those. I understand trade is a complex system to implement however storage seems to be more an issue of dollars which anet aren't willing to spend. After having waited so long I sincerely doubt anet will ever improve storage, they'll just keep stringing us along until we've all moved on to the next mmo.

Alfrond · Feb 11, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

who the hell complained about lack of lip synching? Everyone just skips the scene anyway (except PvPers who don't even care)

colossal waste of time considering the very fundamental broken aspects of this game

Not everyone skips the scenes and you know that. Some of us enjoy the story and characters.

VitisVinifera · Feb 11, 2007, 02:19 AM // 02:19

ok ok.........the first time, maybe 2nd time through I watch

but am I going back with my 5th character through Shing Jea just to watch Togo's mouth move? I think not.

this should have been done much much earlier, or they should have saved their time for what(if) Ch 4 brings and spend the Ch2/3 lip synch hours on whats broken

Bryant Again · Feb 11, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfrond

Not everyone skips the scenes and you know that. Some of us enjoy the story and characters.

Yeah, not everyone, but in every pug I've been in 7 out of 8 people wanted to skip it (The 8th person was me most of the time). Of course there were occassional exceptions, but through my experience it seemed people could care less about the cutscenes.
So yes. I do feel that the lip-sync update, while a nice change, could've been perhaps lower on the priority list?

Mr_T_bot · Feb 11, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clawdius_Talonious

Yeah, because you pay them so much every month to update the game right?

No, these are free changes Anet makes because they're good people; with a good product.

To be honest, people who say stuff like this are stupid. This is the business model Arena Net has chosen. They arn't not charging us out of the goodness of their heart, it is a calculated business move to try and get more sales for each release, which they release on a schedule to get something similar to a monthly fee. If Arena Net can't be assed to update their game and live up to their promises, I can't be assed to pay $50-75 every 6 months (which they've only met once in 3 subsequent releases)*.

Yes, I know the next hasn't released but it has already been announced it won't be on the 6 month schedule.

aeroclown · Feb 11, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

To be honest, people who say stuff like this are stupid. This is the business model Arena Net has chosen. They arn't not charging us out of the goodness of their heart, it is a calculated business move to try and get more sales for each release, which they release on a schedule to get something similar to a monthly fee. If Arena Net can't be assed to update their game and live up to their promises, I can't be assed to pay $50-75 every 6 months (which they've only met once in 3 subsequent releases)*.

Yes, I know the next hasn't released but it has already been announced it won't be on the 6 month schedule.

You know, I still don't get it.

:shakes head:

Anyone can sit here and rationalize the idea of a business model and turn it inside out and upside down to make it work for any argument they have. The community by large only takes this stance because Guildwars is Classed as an MMO, if that were not the case, it would be chalked up as simply the cost of an expansion on the next greatest release in a series of games one likes to play. That is simply a fact of the matter nothing more.

You are absolutely right it is a business model I just don't believe it is the one that many pretend it to be (Note the BIG I there). It seems to me that Arena net has taken on the burden of managing a Pay per Month MMO structure while maintaining oddly enough a normal development structure of a non-MMO game system.

I mean in all honesty though, the model of this business or that can be forever debated. Without really being a part of the development strategies and processes, it is all speculation based on previous experiences.

I will agree that this argument is as old as a worn rug that should be burned at the stake, I also will agree that Arena Net made a verbal commitment to maintain and establish an MMO structure and all of its accompanying parts. You of course as a consumer have a right to jump up and down and scream all you want. I would tend to believe however that all the jumping and screaming in the world will do little to move forward a development time-line, just like all the jumping and screaming in a food joint will do little to progress the speed at which your rare steak becomes well-done.