Curse

Dutch Masterr · Feb 13, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

anyone that plays guild wars has obviously noticed that there are probably millions of skill combinations. of course, not every combination will turn out to be a good build, but some will...and some will even change how we play the game as a whole, like the 55 monk, which eventually spread to other classes as well.

my question is this - was the 55 monk build purposley put into the game by it's creators to be eventually found out, or was it just by chance that all the skills and the -50hp grim cesta fit together perfectly?

if you ask me, it seems a little to complex to just be an accident. i cant really picture someone saying to themselves "hey, this grim cesta could be of some use!"...and then proceeded to make a build. it all fits together so perfectly to be an accident. not to mention the weeks of testing and math calculations they would have had to do to make the build work. or maybe it took the whole community to piece it together...i really dont know...maybe it was a perfect mistake or maybe it was put in with the intention to be found out.

Silly Warrior · Feb 13, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

When Anet made the game, they knew there were going to be skill combos they had never thought once about.

They also knew that some of these skill combos would be too powerful, and make the game unfair, the 55 is a good example.

How on earth could Anet have though " Man, if I get a Monk with all negative life down to 105, and then add the grim cesta in the beginning of the game to get down my life to 55, and THEN put on healing breeze and protective spirit, and lots of enchants, I could really kill alot of stuff fast?"

It was a 100% complete accident, nobody at Arenanet once thought that something that powerful could come out of something thought really stupid.

"55 health...how is that powerful?"

Point is, no, the answer is accident. Why would they put it in just to nerf the hell out of it?

swiftygem · Feb 13, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

It'd be nice if some of the GW veterans could share their memories on this topic with us

Like if it was one person, who first came with the 55 build, or if it was a merge from multiple builds....

anti_z3r0 · Feb 13, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I remember a loooooong time ago before the 55 was introduced, on this forum some guy proposed a contest to solo the UW. One of his ideas was very similar to the 55. It was something like using runes to get down to 1 health and then using Prot Spirit and Aura of the Lich to mitigate the 1 damage that would be done so you couldn't ever take damage.

EDIT: I was wrong about a couple parts of his build, but here is the post: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=20392. It's his "The Lich" build.

EDIT 2: Wow, reading through the thread, it looks like some guy named Rith Raft made it on his own.

Acidic Won · Feb 13, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

The 55 originated from Protective Bond I believe which evetually got nerfed so a health drop was needed to use a skill similar called Protective Spirit. With the health dropped thy knew damage would rise about a certain amount unless it was life stealing.
I believe they found the cesta as a way to make the health drop further from a 105/135 or whatever. Then they realized a HoT (Heal over Time) was the best way to heal through the low damage taken because of Prot. Spirit. From there they just pieced skills together.

Blame the Monks · Feb 13, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Its pretty clear they didn't intend for it. Just look at aura of the lich -- it was intended to have a similar effect to a 55 (buffing regen) but was an elite and far less effective.

Antheus · Feb 13, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

55 wasn't the original build.

The earliest I remember is this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=32980

Of course, people were probably running this even sooner, and that's just when it got posted.

But the original builds didn't involve PS/HB combo, since protective bond was so much better. Only after it got changed did the PS/HB alternative apear.

There were also some funny items to be found in Prophecies PvE, with -50 cesta being just one of them.

The concept that you can lower your health and that there are skills which make that irrelevant was designed. This isn't really a problem, since even mild enchant removal, interrupts or life stealing will destroy PS/HB build.

It's an interesting build, but nothing that was designed.

If anything, the -50 cesta was added for sacrifice skills (hence, the requirement), where having less health is better, and obviously you can run that build as many do today, with blood renewal and PS, both of which are fueled by soul reaping. That would be the probably original intent of that cesta.

Yanman.be · Feb 13, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I know it started with level 3's or something outside Lion's Arch. I believe.

Earendil · Feb 13, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Its not the 55 that was bugged. It was the "less than x% damage" you could find on Protective bond and spirit. The concept of a protection scaling on your max HP is the tricky one.

It was basically a "how can I abuse this skill" story. Every time there are new skills and nerfs/buffs - this is the first quetion some people ask themselves. Skill abusing was and will always be a constant trend in GW.

You have protective bond. Reduces all damage taken to 5%. Costs energy but energy can be recovered through ebond and bspirit (back then at least). Then you have the attributes swapping, level 17 Pbond that only costs 1 energy and actually acts as an energy engine...awesome. The next step is to cut down your HP to minimum....doesnt take too much to realise its 55.

Historically, the build was present in the early summer 2005 (if not before). Around july 2005 the info was posted on several forums (causing endless flames and anger "Why did you have to tell everyone noob???? now Anet is going to nerf it!!") The best indicator was that in about 1-2 weeks, the price of superior monk runes at the merchants jumped from 3-400 to 20k. I bought mine somewhere in june for about 400 gold a piece (a friend described me the build) and a few weeks later the monk superiors prices were skyrocketting.

There are simple changes that anet could make to make 55s impossible. The simpliest is to cap the damage reduction to something like 20. This way, the use on Prot spirit in PvP would be unaffected while all 55 soloing builds would become impossible. They never did it - there are other ways of farming besides the 55 monks or necros anyway. I personally find the variations on those builds actually refreshing.

CagedinSanity · Feb 13, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I have a "HOW are 55's so good?" thread in Monk discussion. I mentioned I have encoutnered like 5 of them, 4 of which died (forgot about the 5th, they might have left or something) and 2 of them dead by my hand. Easy kills, really quite pathetic.

Though I wish I had known about it before, I would have bought those runes, If i had known they'd go up to 7k as they are today.

manitoba1073 · Feb 13, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Ill tell you one way it started. about 10 days after release i was tanking on my war in UW for a group of friends. When a monk friend of mine told me to die a couple times so i did. Then he started to use prot bond mending and watchful on me and after that i noticed the very small amount damage i was taking. my version took of from that experience.

Gun Pierson · Feb 13, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I remember the unnerfed protective bond build back in the days. About the 55 setup, one must admit it's a brilliant combination of skills, runes and weapons. It's really an example of thinking out of the box. I'm pretty sure Anet didn't see that one coming.

The 55 build deserves respect for its originality and efficiency.

VitisVinifera · Feb 13, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I'll go one further: anerf is pretty much clueless about the skills they make. They throw them out there, and see what "needs" nerfing. They have us do their playtesting for them (sometimes calling these things 'event's lol), and sit back and watch.

Dutch Masterr · Feb 13, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Ill tell you one way it started. about 10 days after release i was tanking on my war in UW for a group of friends. When a monk friend of mine told me to die a couple times so i did. Then he started to use prot bond mending and watchful on me and after that i noticed the very small amount damage i was taking. my version took of from that experience.

let me get this straight....you were playing in the underworld 10 days after the release of the game? or 10 days after the 55 monk went public?

Kotetsu Rain · Feb 13, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

This has to be accidental...I mean you could then look at any other build out there thats actually good at killing stuff fast. Like that silver armor troll farmer ele or even better the A/E solo green farmer. It was thought up of people with incredibly cool braincells and creativity. Anet just gave them the tools.

I mean if you bring it into a real life situation I can compare this question to...Ice Cream Sundaes. Who could of thought that byy using the plain simple ingredients of plain ice cream, cherry's, nuts, choclate sryup, and caramel (sometimes even sprinkles) and but them together to make one hell of a treat on a hot day. Same goes for pizza...and probably other foods.

Total accident...besides like someone said "Why would Anet put skills in the game just to nerf them?"

Then again it wouldn't be the first time that Anet decided to make the game 'more fun' at the expense of some former great skills.

Malice Black · Feb 13, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Accident.

End of story.

wynoski · Feb 13, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

I have a "HOW are 55's so good?" thread in Monk discussion. I mentioned I have encoutnered like 5 of them, 4 of which died (forgot about the 5th, they might have left or something) and 2 of them dead by my hand. Easy kills, really quite pathetic.

Though I wish I had known about it before, I would have bought those runes, If i had known they'd go up to 7k as they are today.

55s are weak vs. Enchantment removal and life stealing...I run a bit of 55 to farm, but if there are necros or enchantment removal...its a short battle.

Also at certain times I run a 1 hp BIP...that way sacrifice skills have 0 damage and the monks leave me alone...I just have to stay WAY back

From a necro perspective the best way to do this is to try and get killed and get down to about 13-18 hp..that way Prot spirit allows only 2 damage...unless its life stealing.

CDittric77 · Feb 13, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

I'll go one further: anerf is pretty much clueless about the skills they make. They throw them out there, and see what "needs" nerfing. They have us do their playtesting for them (sometimes calling these things 'event's lol), and sit back and watch.

I respectfully disagree with this accusation. ANet does plenty of dev work and playtesting outside 'events'. Now that the metagame is large enough that even subtle changes can have lasting ripple effects ANet has integrated new testing mehtods to establish (primarily) PvP balance. The 55 is an example of how well balanced skills, items, and creativity can make the most use out of a well designed skill/rune/weapon system.

Skuld · Feb 13, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

I have a "HOW are 55's so good?" thread in Monk discussion. I mentioned I have encoutnered like 5 of them, 4 of which died (forgot about the 5th, they might have left or something) and 2 of them dead by my hand. Easy kills, really quite pathetic.

Though I wish I had known about it before, I would have bought those runes, If i had known they'd go up to 7k as they are today.

You're judging on some retards that brought an AI-abusing farming build into RA? Wow.

ca_aok · Feb 13, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

It's sort of like the touch ranger... I doubt ANET sat there thinking "hmm... if a ranger primary uses 16 expertise to allow him to spam low cost lifesteal skills that ignore armor, and couple it with OoB, it could be really strong!" People simply come along and make these inventive builds, and if they work, they're instantly abused by everyone in the game.

I miss the old prot bond though