Curse

Bryant Again · Mar 07, 2007, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyldan

The problem is not the Trade chat, it's the trade requests in the Local chat. People do not use the Trade channel regularly, either, despite it being detrimental to avoid it. People seem to be misguided, thinking only that the Local channel receives more attention. There are many, many more factors than that, and these factors are ignored. Ignored not out of stupidity or ignorance, but just out of a lack of forethought. Unfortunately, a lack of forethought seems to be a common trait, and irrational choices are made and promoted.

The trading spam is just a whole different nearly unsolvable problem:

1. People spam like crazy in the Trade channel.
2. People turn off Trade channel because of trade spam.
3. People spamming in Trade channel spam in Local channel because most people have turned off Trade channel.
4. People turn off Local channel because of trade spam.

I think the Party Search was made for just this reason, so people can still look for groups even with the Local chat off.

However, there is one thing that could definantly save the spam problem, and that's an auction house.

But of course, that would be too much trouble, wouldn't it?

Malice Black · Mar 07, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

Very true, but why do so many...seem to flourish in Guild Wars?

But, I don't classify them as "morons",

-Trade spamming in general chat isn't the problem, but a symptom

-Decrease in pick-up-groups aren't the problem, but a symptom

-Player population gaps across the three chapters isn't the problem, but a symptom

To me, the cause of these issues, first and foremost, springs from game design decisions that ANet has made over the last 2 campaigns. People react accordingly, and here we are.

Some of my ideas that might help:

-Give player in-game trade a home so it doesn't have to "accost people on the streets" as much as it does now.

-Work to reverse trends that discourage people from grouping and interacting with each other

-Don't expand the universe in ways that diminishes current population centers and crossroads

People who adept to the current situationno matter how hard or hostile will flourish, those that can't adept come here and moan.

Vyldan · Mar 07, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

Everyone is free to play the game the way they choose. If people want to be morons then let them, I for one couldn't care less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked

It's in bad shape because of people like you spreading gloom and domm threads. gg

Quote:

Originally Posted by I MP I

I don't get it or care

People are entitled to their opinions. Nothing will change that.

Please read the entire post if you're going to reply. D:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

QFT. I don't think GW's community is any better or any worse then the rest of the internet. People going around saying "GW is doomed and full of horrible people" cause people to precieve that it is so.

As you may have noted in all of my posts, I only post facts as facts, and clearly indicate my opinions as my own. The fact of the matter here is that it is, quite literally, impossible to make everyone happy busy-bodies that make rational decisions at every twist and turn. What I wish to see is a push towards promoting actions and mentalities that better benefit the community as a whole. The stronger the support, the less strength from the words of nay-sayers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

However, there is one thing that could definantly save the spam problem, and that's an auction house.

But of course, that would be too much trouble, wouldn't it?

Unfortunately, an Auction House would be an example of ArenaNet stepping in and attempting to subdue community-based problems. While it would be nice, it will only spawn more problems. I can already assume that players would avoid the Auction House, as well, for several community-based reasons.

floppinghog · Mar 07, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Conversations like these make me want to yell on my soap box about some of these kids in-game to be chained to a desk in school because they aren't learning a thing.

As for myself, I must warn that I am insane, I can pretty much turn into a ADD freak with no brain whatsoever at will, and at the same time be pretty acceptable within the social norms. Most of the time I bare within the middle, joke here and there, some "durka durka noob", and zomgwtfbbq some ppl who just can't play their character for beans... its all relevant to how people act in local chat or trade spammage as well. If one can't understand why they suck, or why someone tells them they are over pricing something, trying to rip someone off, and other similar situations you get a nice "stfu noob" or some other jabber jabber from one of the many 12 year old acting fools around in this game.

I can't tell you the solution, I can only suggest for unrealistic tutorials that FORCE players to pass a test of competence to be allowed in a PUG, to trade, or do anything remotely related to other players on the internet. But when you ponder the effects of that, you would realize that within a week or so after release of such a change, you'd see guides.... GUIDES on how to be competent to pass the test. And stupid ppl will read it, remember it for the test, and forget quickly afterwards.

An example of such a situation is when players fail to ascend at Augry Rock. And seriously, you need either not care about the game, be stupid, or have no clue on how the game mechanics work together to not ascend at 20. Never mind being able to ascend a character at lvl 11 with little to no skills, and basic armor = that takes skill that I have been able to prove (i know other people have done it at lower lvls as well - don't bug me about the example).

Its the test like that where you're supposed to know how to beat yourself to prove to the Gods your worthy, and many just cheat, and learn nothing. Its comparable to beating the game for the first time after being ran across the whole game from the start...but lets not get into that sticky convo..

Bryant Again · Mar 07, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyldan

Unfortunately, an Auction House would be an example of ArenaNet stepping in and attempting to subdue community-based problems. While it would be nice, it will only spawn more problems. I can already assume that players would avoid the Auction House, as well, for several community-based reasons.

The reason people keep spamming what their selling is because that text doesn't stay there. They have to keep reminding people that they're selling this particular item. If they had an auction house, said item would just sit there in the display box, not bothering anybody, waiting for a buyer.

But what're the community-based reasons people wouldn't use an Auction house? Sounds like a great and helpful idea, to me.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Mar 07, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

People who adept to the current situationno matter how hard or hostile will flourish, those that can't adept come here and moan.

I adapted, I play solo.

No online gaming company can base it's future on a playerbase made up of solo players. I mean, why not release a solo game with updates, no game servers needed?

Am I saying no one ever groups at all anymore? No. Just voicing my observations on what I see as a decrease in player interaction in PvP, in groups and in, well, community. Communities thrive when they come together for mutual benefit. Diminish the benefit, diminish the community.

It's not the caliber of people, the same people play Guild Wars that play the other games. Besides, it would be ignorant to paint a whole mass of people with one brush, so I don't.

RichPowers · Mar 07, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Wait, why do you think players would avoid an auction house? Do GW players have an aversion to additions that would greatly improve the game?

Regarding your points about the community at large: Frankly, GW is best enjoyed with an active, competent guild. The game does little to promote a sense of community (instanced everything, impersonal public areas) and the community does little to change this, as you noted. This isn't a design flaw; it's how the game was designed. Guilds provide meaningful PvP (even if you’re not an uber guild), a trustworthy way of trading items, and players who can help you complete missions.

I'm not disagreeing with your points (I think you're mostly correct), it's just that little of this affects me now that I have a guild to play with.

Bryant Again · Mar 07, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

No online gaming company can base it's future on a playerbase made up of solo players. I mean, why not release a solo game with updates, no game servers needed?

Because of PvP.

Without that, it probably wouldn't hurt to go off-line.

Vyldan · Mar 07, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The reason people keep spamming what their selling is because that text doesn't stay there. They have to keep reminding people that they're selling this particular item. If they had an auction house, said item would just sit there in the display box, not bothering anybody, waiting for a buyer.

But what're the community-based reasons people wouldn't use an Auction house? Sounds like a great and helpful idea, to me.

Yes, that text does not stay there, and people join after it is said, completely missing the message. This is very likely to be the reason why the Party Search Window was implimented. It stays, does it not? People can join and check previous entries, can they not? This is why I use the Party Search Window as my prime example. I would say it is practically 99% better than any current in-game methods that we have, yet look at how it is being ignored. Also, I am not going to expand upon my Auction House comment. It's merely a gut feeling I have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Without that (PvP), it probably wouldn't hurt to go off-line.

Oh dear. You say that as if it were a fact.

I am certain that none of us know and understand every little detail in this game. I can tell you, however, that I do not think a single player-like campaign is not ArenaNet's intention.

Bryant Again · Mar 07, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Oh dear. You say that as if it were a fact.

I am certain that none of us know and understand every little detail in this game. I can tell you, however, that I do not think a single player-like campaign is not ArenaNet's intention.

It's not their intention, but that's what it's coming to. PUGs are dying. It's harder to find one and even harder to rely on one. However, I will say it is easier to find one early on in the campaigns. But after that things start to get nasty.

Aside from that, PvE is becoming boring as a whole. There's little to no strategy in it. I'm sure PvP will look much less appealing as well when Fury is released.

Vyldan · Mar 07, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's not their intention, but that's what it's coming to.

That's also not what we are discussing.

Bryant Again · Mar 07, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyldan

That's also not what we are discussing.

So the lack of involvement in PUGs doesn't affect the Guild Wars community?

Kuldebar Valiturus · Mar 07, 2007, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyldan

That's also not what we are discussing.

Actually, it was brought up in the context of the overall community issue which is much more than just too much trade spam and people not using party search. It involves every type of player interaction in the game, or the lack, there of...

A malaise, if you will, an indifference that's settled into the community.

Vyldan · Mar 07, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Wait, wait, wait... Like I mentioned, we appeared to be going off-topic. Perhaps I am just misinterpreting what is being said after post #28. Let the conversation continue before I attempt to intervene again.

Archangel Xavier · Mar 07, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

So what's the point of this thread?

Guild Wars has more than 1 million players. One or two...even twenty people being nice and kind can't change the overall atmosphere of the game.

It's the internet, and we are human. Just accept that people can be mean, ignore them, and move on.

At first glance no, 20 people can't change the way guild wars works. Then I realized that it only took one person to realize " hey, protective bond with 55 health? this works pretty damn good." and BAM the monk profession was actually excting. Honestly I don't agree with the farming portion of the post. Without farming there wouldn't be an economy. If you are a casual gamer go play Runescape or better yet counterstrike. The search function however should be used. Nowadays, the "local" channel in dead areas is quiet and pointless and in populated areas it is flooded and useless. This in effect makes the only difference between Ice Tooth Cave International and Temple of Ages Dis 1 the letters, LFG, EXP, SS, and 55.

Sneaky Mitch · Mar 07, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

My thoughts.

Ok so trade spam is usually the worst in dis1, so we could ban it in all the others. instead of that message that you are spamming, it could just move you to dis1.
Yeah Yeah it will fill up, but GW can deal with that. or better yet, they loose 1 gold for every line repeated and each person that is on the map. and this gold goes to everyone on the map.

What i been doing is turn off chat and trade chat.
When i get to the main towns and find i have something to sell, i spam it a few times. i dont even notice, cos they are turned off. If someone wants it they pm me.
and if i want to buy something, i turn on the chat, then pm the seller, no problem.
and plus most the spam is in towns where you dont really need to make a party anyway, just get to a mission and there isnt as much spam.

The [P] key works wonders, some times i spam for people to press [P].

An idea, let people enter missions from the guild hall. I could elaborate on this but others can too.

Another idea. when people log into a new town have the party window already open (can turn this off in options). I think alot of people just dont know about it. Come on devs, if ya want something used have it on by default. Design 101.

oh someone mentioned a offline version. cant be done, if they give you the code, people will set up their own servers. not good for the GW cos these servers dont have to check if you have a legal copy. it does get annoying sometimes when im lagging and im the only one playing tho...

ok next issue. the kids.
the reason there ar lots of kids in this game is cos its free to play. not alot of kids can afford the play subscription games. So they get a game like guildwars for xmas or what ever.

ok now i dont need to say whats wrong with all the kids, but i do want to say its not all of em. there are some really nice ones in there.

I vote to put a password protection on the chat filter, so the kids cant turn it off when they arnt being watched.

Also i think all these MMO's should be over 18 rated. if the screenshots on the box had the chat that goes on in RA i dont think alot of parents would buy the game.

But its not all that bad, i think most these rude people in RA are actually the kids. Ive started messaging people if they something rude. I usually just say "please mind the language there are kids about"
and more than half the replies are something like "Im only ****ing 12 you ****er".

Peace.

swird · Mar 07, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyldan

Oh, one last thing...
Why do I bring up farming as a problem? I pray you do not hope for me to vent on that. I am not confident that I have an agreeable explanation for me to begin telling my side of the dispute. Let me just say that I see the entire act as unnecessary. Everything that is necessary can be earned (Key word -- Earned) through a little dedication and hard work.This game was not designed to require so much money, so it should not be necessary to amass that much wealth. End-game armor is not necessary, nor should it be a symbol of wealth. It is earned, it is a money sink, and it should only be sought after by the most dedicated of players, through the means of quests and missions. Just as well, I honestly cannot see how farmers think that their use of time feels justified at all.

Of course end-game armor isn't necessary. No one is making you get it if you don't want it. The dwarf brothers down at Droknars will be more than happy to suit you up with max stats.

But I like end game and high end armor. Why? Because I like the feeling of purpose you get when saving up and farming towards the end goal you have in mind. I like the feeling of farming together with my friends, snickering good-naturedly when one person gets a lame drop, and cheering when someone gets a windfall. I like the feeling of working with my friends towards a common goal as we support each other. Even solo farming is fun--a lot of the solo farming builds are challenging and take time to learn to do well, and it's bound to generate fun and laughs in guild chat when you wail about the umpteenth time you've died trying a build.

In the end, there's that final awesome feeling you get when you and your friends plow through FoW, gleefully chop the heads off the Shadow Army, clean the furnace of those pesky spiders, and get that FoW armor crafted. High-end armor is just another manifestation of titles. It's something you work hard to get, and when you do get it, you have the right to be proud to show it off. Most importantly, you have the memories of how you got it together with your friends, as well as taking on the challenge of solo farming on your own.

All because you "can't see how farmers think that their use of time feels justified at all" doesn't mean that farmers don't enjoy it. That's the whole point of playing this game--for fun. If people who liked farming needed to "justify" why spent their time doing so, you might as well accuse all guild wars players of having no "justification" for playing the game in the first place instead of doing something more productive.

I'm glad you view the entire act of farming as "unnecessary" and that farmers cannot "justify" their actions, as if they were guilty of something. Here's a revolutionary idea for you to try out: just don't do or think about it. And while you're at it, step off your self-righteous, yet lame-legged horse, and realize that farmers can bloody well farm if they enjoy it--that is justification enough.

Really, if you were against bots, I'd understand, but legitimate farmers are perfectly fine.

bungusmaximus · Mar 07, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Pff, community isn't that bad IMO, I don't meet many jerks at all, and i still PUG on a regular basis. If a team sucks I leave after trying or beforehand is the team setup utterly sucks. PvP can be a little harsh sometimes, ppl can be quite blunt every now and then, but thats more because they don't want to waste time.

As for jerks, theres 2 things you can do, leave (It's not that we NEED jerks do we?) or be a bigger jerk, which is just hilarious sometimes. Like yesterday I was PUGing a masters attempt in ruins of morah. Teamleader flamed the living crap out of me because of 2 deaths while we were doing perfectly fine. He went on like WTF are you doing when I tanked Varesh, so I said: 'kill her yourself' and put on /dance. When they were almost overwhelmed by Varesh I quickly jumped in and finished her with a nifty hammer combo. If people want to make me sweat they end up sweating harder

.

cyberjanet · Mar 07, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Why don't people use the Party Search Window?
Wizard's First Rule.

Why won't people use an Auction house?
Same reason.

If we want to clean up GW and get an acceptable level of behaviour in public places, we do need to take action.

I've suggested in a couple of other threads that we implement a /ban function when someone spams or uses insulting or bad language in public. It doesn't go into action immediately, but once a certain number of complaints have been filed against a person, it disables his local chat channel for 1 minute. More complaints, and it disables longer. And it's cumulative.

Terra Xin · Mar 07, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Powers

The game does little to promote a sense of community

I agree.

The game itself is great, but its sad that they don't provide better support to raise a better community standard. More happy players = a much better game experience.

You're not improving community interaction by giving us bonus weekends and the occasional skill buff...