Curse

MegaMouse · Feb 20, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Reset everything back to the way it was originaly. Make the game skill based like it was originaly. Now all there is is cookie cutters for everything which sux. Ther is no skill in the PVE now the game is for the PVP crowd and they are slowly giving the PVE crowd the bum rush.

Mega Mouse

Deleet · Feb 21, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMouse

Reset everything back to the way it was originaly. Make the game skill based like it was originaly. Now all there is is cookie cutters for everything which sux. Ther is no skill in the PVE now the game is for the PVP crowd and they are slowly giving the PVE crowd the bum rush.

Mega Mouse

Back up your statement.
I've seen you post this, many times before. it doesn't get better of repetition.

Aeon221 · Feb 21, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I think most people miss the point when they start branding PvE as 'easy'. Basically, PvE is about the journey, PvP is about the struggle. While it's definitely good to have parts of PvE that are hard (especially later on in the game), diversity in experience as well as an immersible environment is the most important aspect to an enjoyable experience imo.

Oh my lord, you've nailed it. That is (besides the misspelling which I corrected), the cleanest way I've ever heard or seen anyone put it.

Bryant Again · Feb 21, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I'm not sure for the most of us, but I like the experience to also be fun, refreshing and challenging. I like to kill baddies as much as I like to explore the beauty of an area, and if I only get one of those it's...kinda boring.

Aeon221 · Feb 21, 2007, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Now that I've read this whine fest, I'ma actually weigh in. Most of you are being silly wankers, crying about how hard it is. If you are having trouble, adapt and evolve. If you don't like elite mission difficulties, don't play em. Lord knows I don't, who wants to sit huddled against a canyon, spamming Searing Flames at a big group of super-sized Bone Fiends while hoping for a drop anyway?

The rest of the game is manageable, so adapt to it.

That said, if Anet decided to put in larger numbers of weaker monsters (a la The Undead Hordes quest in Kryta or that quest at the end of the Centaur quest line with the 50 some Margonites attacking) at intervals throughout the game, I'd love it. The sheer numbers always makes me feel like I'm "The Man (tm)" when I hear their chorused death grunts.

That, and I'd really like the ground to get a bit more blood soaked when I'm getting my massacre on.

Evilsod · Feb 21, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Something that you could do without fustration. Regular Realm of Torment mobs are fine, you *can* kill them without losing members if you go about it the right way. But there are some mobs that are just moronic... The 4-5x Rain of Torment mobs you get in the Domain of Fear are just ridiculous. Theres almost no way to counter 4 spread out Water spikers without a completely specific build. When things can wipe out entire teams of henchman in seconds using water magic... somethings overpowered.

Personally i'd like Anet to just pay slightly more attention to builds... Steady Stance on Heket makes no sense at all with there current build. Some mobs are well designed, but some are just a completely half-arsed job. You can roll Heket without even thinking about it. Roaring Ethers can roll you if your not careful.

Age · Feb 21, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

I would say just the way Prophecies was and get rid of timed missions I miss seeing sword cross when you get the bonus.I would say to it should be gradual.

lyra_song · Feb 21, 2007, 05:55 AM // 05:55

All mobs shouldnt be more than 8 levels stronger than you.

Mob party size shouldnt exceed your party size by more than 25%.

Mobs should all have 8 skills, including ressurect spells.

Mobs should have multiple balanced team builds from a pool of skills that randomly generate each time you enter a zone.

freekedoutfish · Feb 21, 2007, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by The5thSeraph

Gaming should be about engaging the brain.... and not merely about brute force, itchy trigger-fingers and sheer luck.

I think we were actually agreeing. I apologise that I generalised my views, but this whole debate about making the game harder really annoys me.

Ive played since prophercies and I loved that system, I didnt see any need to change it. Then came factions and the level of difficulty just shot up stupidly.

Not impossibly hard, just frustratingly hard.

I agree that the game should be made more challenging with better AI and tactics from the creatures.

My greif is that Anet doesnt do that. Their trend is to simply make more and more creatures capable of interupting, able to ress and multiply. This doesnt add to the challenge, it simple makes them harder to kill and more frustrating.

Factions was not a casting friendly game due to that. It was alot more a wammo game.

NF was fine, until a point where the difficulty shot up, and you were thrown into the deep end with huge mobs and alot of them. Its more a shock to the system when you go from relatively nice gameplay to sudden elite-esc areas.

Dont get me wrong. I dont mind a challenge, aslong as its intelligent and not just creatures being buffed up and numbers increased.

I honestly found/find the ROT a pain to play in, because certain areas are just mob heavy and its like a mine field. You cant pick groups off intelligently because you agree entire areas.

waarph · Feb 21, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

My idea of fun in pve is not linked to the level of monsters but:

1) it is immersive and you discover places (with the quests, etc...) as already stated by many.

2) The cooperative mission are well designed and thus interesting. By well designed I mean that it does not only involve going forward-kill-forward-kill etc...

Clear exemples were aurora glade where you had to use a runner (split of group) or bloodstone fen where you had to carry items around without touching the monsters hitting you!! Even thirsty river was cool since it reminded me of some PvP experiences. A few nightfall coop mission were good too.

In Hall of Heros you have a lot of creative victory conditions. Why PVE could not have also creative victory conditions, place that involves split party stategies, etc?

All in all, most PVE now only involves kill-forward-kill-forward and it is why you only need heros and hench to win. Only one human mind is necessary to lead the whole group.

The difficulty of the game is not only linked to the level of the monsters but by the way the game challenge you! (as already stated by many above).

My 2 cent
Have fun in game

trexrea · Feb 21, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

I am new at posting Forums, but not new in reading and using them.

First, I like how some are hard and some are Easy, like someone said early in the Forum, but when you get to the uber hard ones they are plan silly, and when you do the easy ones, they are plane silly.

My personnal opion is the game should be harder early to force you to build a good char, as you advance through the game, make the game change in the WAY it is difficult, so again it forces you to change you char, and makes you into a better player. (i.e Early use Wars, as you go through through in Mesmers, and Prot. torwards the end of game make a orginized foe party) This will force a player to adapt

As for the Cookie Cutters and such.. Bud, get creative and create your own test it and submit it... Don't depend on the Cookie Cutters, because by you saying that you are (in my eyes) saying you having fallen into the mold. BUT I do agree with the game going to PvP base more than PvE base now.

trexrea · Feb 21, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Oh yeah 1 more thing.... A-Net STOP messing with the AI, they were great like 2 weeks ago, the new Mods you made, are messing them up and creating too much Lag...

Aegeroth · Feb 21, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

D
o
A

Yeeeeh!

I reckon a Moderate difficulty will do, otherwise everyone will have the same builds for the certain missions, and that won't be good.

Naf Olbaid · Feb 21, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

I think DoA difficulty is going too far.. it encourages ultra pure cookie cutter pre-invented teams, and even with the "perfect" cookie cutter setup, it's still hard.

No thanks.

Something along the lines of the Gate of Madness (the mission before abaddon, if that's its name?) would be good though. I'd probably prefer it to the current mission setups, simply because it encourages human teams to form together and triumph over a difficult obstacle.

The current PvE meta-game has been ruined by heroes, almost every mission is just as easy, if not even easier with heroes than it is with real players. Some of us like to play multiplayer internet games to play with REAL PLAYERS.... why else would i be playing GW and not final fantasy X or something?

King's Spectre · Feb 21, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35

I like a mix of things in an area. You move along in an area and just see how fast you can mow though the baddies. Then you run into a really tough group and have to do some planning and setup.

I like the Warren for difficulty. I well played party can grind along as long as you have a guide or know the ropes. Special builds do it faster.

Milennin · Feb 21, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Hard missions are boring not because of challenge but because almost every team only accepts certain professions and builds, which makes it near impossible to do it with other players if you don't like playing that certain profession or build...

The5thSeraph · Feb 21, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I think we were actually agreeing. I apologise that I generalised my views, but this whole debate about making the game harder really annoys me.

Ive played since prophercies and I loved that system, I didnt see any need to change it. Then came factions and the level of difficulty just shot up stupidly.

Not impossibly hard, just frustratingly hard.

Factions? Harder than Prophecies?

Really?! o_0;

I found the difficulty level of Factions for the most part to be about perfect.
And yet certain parts of the Southern Shiverpeaks I still find painfully difficult... far above the difficulty of most of Factions (along similar lines to trying to solo the Eternal Grove at Master rank with heroes and henchies).
Along similar lines, most of Prophecies is a level-grind. Factions revolves less around level / raw strength and more around familiarity and skill synergy.

As for Nightfall though, I only just got Margrid the Sly. Kourna was a perfectly acceptable level of difficulty... but from what you're saying I imagine things are about to get a whole lot nastier.

On another note... I think Chapter 4 should bring back, at least in some missions (though clearly not all), the time-based ranking systems. There is little so exhilerating as zerg-rushing Vizunah Square with a couple of minion masters.

elsalamandra · Feb 21, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

I love PvE.

I have been playing this game since 2 months after originally released (prophesis).

I have the 3 campaigns.

Nightfall was a much awaited campaign after the flop Fractions, I mean Factions was.

DoA and Razah the hero was the most anticlimatic things that I have seen in the GW saga so far.

Why?

Simple. Let me say what I think on RAZAH. Not that impressive after so much publiclity given, I mean a ritualist! and then it leads me to DoA (dead on arrival) as I call it.

The whole concept of this new PvE sucks for me because of the amount of time you have to spend to get a team and the amount of time it takes to do a quest.

Not to mention the coffers and in the majority of cases the crsp items they yield.

I have said it before and I say it again.

NIGHTFALL CAMPAIGN = EXCELLENT STUFF

DOA = SPOILER TO NIGHTFALL

No GG on DoA ANet

mqstout · Feb 21, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

Hard missions are boring not because of challenge but because almost every team only accepts certain professions and builds, which makes it near impossible to do it with other players if you don't like playing that certain profession or build...

Indeed. Fortunately, most of the posters in this thread have agreed to that same point. Perhaps we'll be heard.

Trin Storm · Feb 21, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

For the most part I think the difficulty is just about right with a few exceptions -

*I think most of factions has mob density too tight/large. Have some tough areas on a map is good - but requiring each every fight to be epic just wear on you - especially when quest make you clear the same place 14 times...
*I think thing the various demons (or whatever you call the things like blades of corruption) in the realm of torment are a bit much with the mob size/spawn a new creature infinitely.
*The Gates of madness mission is too build specific and most build rely on skills from other campaigns. My opinion here would change if the team build options were more versitle for success

Otherwise I think the difficulty is just about right. Some easy areas. So tough spots. A few very hard missions, a bunch of challenging ones and a few easy ones. I do wish they didnt fall into the same 'difficulty is defined by time required to complete' trap that all MMOs seem to. Eliteness should not be defined by how long you have to sit at the computer - things should be in roughly 1 hour chunks.