Curse

jjiinx13 · Feb 26, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

I vote NO!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene Saliere

It's not a real economy anyway, because the game developers can adjust the rarity of drops (and thus, the price) anytime they see fit.

Excellent point... look at Sup Absorption .. dropped from 60k+ to less than 10k within 2-3 weeks and now its less than 1k.

As for the statements previously about FOW/UW being the only place where PvP governs PvE is wrong. Any PvEr going for a cartographer title has to PvP to get it in Cantha... Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry. It used to be possible to get a group together in the International Districts and do it without dodging fire or being in the way of the PvPers but we cant even do that now. Even when in the Int dis we get pulled into groups from their home dis that are there to fight. So Why is a PvE specific title dependent on PvP???

gone · Feb 26, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

I like how people seem to think that Uw/FoW, IS NOT mass farmed already, because it is...that is a whole other thread/topic.

with "open" access we (the gamer) will just be able to "freely" enter an area without being told so by PvPer's...plain and simple...

if anet wants, they could make certain hours available to each country/server
giving us "free access" but say, under a time limit.

[awhile back i made a comment about a rusty spoon and my eyes, but i see the light]

PvP deciding what PvE does, is, in a way, anet trying to bridge the gap and win PvEr's over to PvP.

yesitsrob · Feb 26, 2007, 09:10 AM // 09:10

While i can understand wanting to put a limited access onto such an area - doing it by what some scrubs are running in Halls is not the way to do it, in my opinion. It's a bit moronic that PVP influences the enjoyment and accessibility of end-game pve content.

Other things that largely blow about it - I'm in an alliance with Eu and Am people - I cannot party with some of these people here. And End-game pve is really the only PVE I care to do.

It's impossible to schedule. You can't predict when you have favour - you can have as little as... 40 minutes? + whatever waiting time between Halls matches is to organise a party. This isn't really enough since finding a group that don't fail at guild wars can take about.. 7 hours.

Some regions never get favour. Korea gets it sometimes because the koreans that do play halls tend to be quite good at it. Europe has it the vast majority of the time, America the rest.

But seriously, most importantly I'd think it would be quite nice to be able to go their with ALL of my guildies except those that choose to play on a certain sever.

The current limited access is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid.

Rene Saliere · Feb 26, 2007, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Quote:

Other things that largely blow about it - I'm in an alliance with Eu and Am people - I cannot party with some of these people here. And End-game pve is really the only PVE I care to do.

Two nice points.
It seems absurd that such important endgame content is restricted in access, given that eventually - and after two years maybe that's now - the majority of PvE'ers -and that's the majority of players - are going to be at the endgame.

It's also absurd that guilds and friends from different countries cannot play together without upsetting the nationalistic Favor system.

Really, in the 21st century, in an escapist fantasy game, do we have to have to have references to real countries at all?

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

bryann380 · Feb 26, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

PvP should have absolutely nothing to do with PvE. They are two completely different things.

My vote: NO!

COOL TROLL JOHN · Feb 26, 2007, 02:07 PM // 14:07

No entrance into a pve area should not be controlled by pvp favor.

Emik · Feb 26, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

If i say No i vote for a marketcrash.
If i vote Yes then everything stays as it is.

Hmmm what to choose.

As long as there no suggestion as to what would replace the PvP favor then I'm voting Yes it stays as it is.

Shmanka · Feb 26, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emik

If i say No i vote for a marketcrash.

I actually want someone to really explain WHY market crash and not just throw it out there like WMD's. When 55 farming existed in masses even with bots+whatnot working around the game ecto had risen to 11k at the merchant and no lower then 6k during the factions period. 55 farming made guildwars a slot machine ffs, no work required and your argument is that if we have 24/7 access to go into a realm with RANDOM drops that the market will crash? Get real.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Its so obvious that everyone who has voted "yes" so far is a PvE only player its not even funny. For the love of god, only vote yes or no if you've actually won halls before.

Im personally just under r8, use a character to hold my HoH earnings, and go with friend groups or guild groups.
Guess what though? That doesn't matter, what matters is that players may not have the time or effort to make it into halls the way it is now. To be blunt and honest; I don't blame them. If you are a casual player or a graveyard shift worker by example yet you want to do FoW why not have a system where your party can prove itself, compared to having your horrible international district roll a pair of dice to see if you can get in?

To be honest, I've never seen you in halls. So stop discriminating the vote.

JoeKnowMo · Feb 26, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

I vote NO!

Economy is artificial and can be manipulated easily by the designers, so it's not a valid reason to keep the status quo.

Link between pvp and pve by region is retarded. I have yet to witness a team win favor and then bolt for UW/FoW.

It's ironic to see some HAers complain about pve noobs in HA and why they need to stay out, then turn around and say, "Go win favor pve'ers"

Wyldchild777 · Feb 26, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Greetings,

Well, here we go with the favor system again. With this topic coming up again and again, one would think that ANet would have bought a clue and realized that there is something wrong here. *sigh* However, to use a phrase, "If wishes were horses, then we'd all be riding".

Anyway, on to the topic. My vote on this topic as addressed by the question is a resounding NO.

The way the favor system is currently setup inherently favors PvP over PvE. As has been pointed out, what in the PvE world controls access to PvP portions of the game like HoH controls UW/FoW?

There have been many ideas put forth to rebalance this favor system, some IMO better than others. First, I'll put forward my own idea from back in April of last year, then address some of the new ones presented in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by myself in a previous thread in April '06

It works like this. At 3pm on the earliest timezone for each region the FoW and UW open up for all access, regardless of favor. They remain open for just 2 hours, after which they go back to the favor system already in place. The reason for this is the tying together portion. Introduce new PvP sections that are based on the FoW/UW maps. Access to these areas will depend on a final quest in the PvE FoW/UW, like Final Assault is in Sorrow's. These new areas will be a PvP free-for-all with 4 teams of 8 people, which will take place in the FoW/UW maps, or scaled-down versions of these maps. There will be separate outposts for PvP-FoW and PvP-UW, or a PvP version of ToA, where PvP characters can party up and enter, or wait for access to be granted. Access to these 4-way battles will only be granted for 2 hours after a PvE group in that region finishes FoW/UW, after which a group has to complete FoW/UW again. The FoW battle could be something like a CTF, with the flag inside a base guarded by NPCs, while the UW battle could be a death count fight - harvest the most souls for Grenth to win. As a reward in these areas, give perhaps 1.5-2 times the amount of faction as normal. As for the story reason for these areas and global announcements of access, I'll leave that to the better paid, and better skilled, writers at ArenaNet. In summary, the flow goes:

HoH wins favor -> clearing of FoW/UW -> 4-way PvP free-for-all

Now, reading through the 300+ posts in this thread, I've seen a reoccurring theme. It appears that PvPers do HoH to gain fame, faction, and chest drops. In my original idea, I only addressed one of these - faction. I'd like to amend that idea to include double fame for a win as well as a second chest appearance for victory in this second PvP area.

Now, the idea presented above was presented as a way to give a PvE area control over a PvP area, thereby tying the two worlds of gameplay together. There is also a way to separate the two, PvE and PvP, and still restrict access to FoW and UW. Turn HoH into a PvE contest. The way to do it is has already been presented by ANet in the form of the Zaishen Elite combatants. ANet has already put together teams of these AI that are worth of being included in the PvP world, via the Zaishen Challenge and Zaishen Elite "missions" in Battle Isles.

What I propose is that the alternate form of access to FoW/UW be handled just like a run through Heroes' Ascent to HoH, with one change. In all places where a team would run into other player teams, replace those other teams with randomly chosen teams of Zaishen elites. So, in other words, when a party pays the 1K to enter, they must first go through this PvE version of a HoH run before being allowed entry into the ascended elite areas.

This idea, like all others, has its pros and cons. Some of which are:
Pros:
* giving the PvE playerbase a completely PvE challenge to enter FoW/UW
* retaining the HoH flavor as a requirement to enter the god's realms
* avoiding the fear that ectos and shards will be overfarmed and result in a crash in their market value
Cons:
* a complete separation of PvE and PvP in relation to FoW/UW (this is only a con if it is still ANet's intention to have these linked)
* a group setup that is designed to get through the PvE HoH may not be suited to take on FoW or UW (this might become a pro if it results in greater diversity in party builds).

I would also not be opposed to simpler suggestions, one of which has been presented in this thread. Remove the favor requirement to enter FoW/UW, but instead of charging gold, charge Balthazar faction to enter. I'm unsure of the amount but the original requirement of 1000 faction seems like a good amount.

One final note - As has been commented a couple of times in this thread, I also believe that the favor system will never be changed. Gaile, and possibly Alex, have both stated on several occasions that they don't believe there is anything wrong with the favor system and that it won't be changed. This is in spite of the fact that the playerbase was saying since the first month of two of release of Prophesies that the favor system was broken (I also believe there were complaints about it during the beta, but my memory is sketchy on this).

So, while the favor system is widely disliked, even considered broken, don't (figuratively) hold your breath on it being changed....ever. I know I won't.

Merry meet, merry met, merry meet again,
Wyldchild777

MegaMouse · Feb 26, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

NO NO NO

Does that sum it up. Granted when the game originaly came out FOW and UW were the Elite areas of the game. But now due to the nerfing of several classes into extinction you must use a cookie cutter build from the PVP arenas to even have a chance in there, or use a solo farming build.

Mega Mouse

Malice Black · Feb 26, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

OMG, I just came up with an idea to please (most) everyone! Although, it's probably been posted before, I've never seen it, so it's new to me!

OK, the most prominent point the "yes"ers have is that without the "Worlds at War" system, FoW and UW would be open for farming to all 24/7. Here's the point I would like to make to everyone: the primary downside to this is the influx of Ectos and Shards, right?

Simple solution: Favor controls whether or not Ectos and Shards drop.

So, basically, you can enter the UW or FoW anytime (for 1 plat, of course), but no Ectos or Shards will drop unless your realm has favor. Bam.

This idea I could live with. Though saying that favor has no real bearing on me because I do have multiple accounts in multiple servers...like any other "rich elitist asshole" lol

Shmanka · Feb 26, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

Link between pvp and pve by region is retarded. I have yet to witness a team win favor and then bolt for UW/FoW.

Funny thing is, my guild did exactly just that the other day. I was completely sick of all the insanely retarded pug FoW groups then we lost favor. I was so angry I was just going nuts over vent on how.. well completely stupid it was that I can't get a FoW group that has more then half a brain over 4 hours of having favor then losing it to europe at 11pm MST. So, I got into a halls group got back favor then got as many people from my guild/friends list as possible and got some FoW for my elementalist. Whoever suggested the new system of the party of 8 proving itself worth of getting into UW or FoW would prevent solo farming beyond belief, take out the favor system, and nothing "ëconomically" would happen. Make a Challange for the entry of the party, would have prevented myself from wasting 4 hours of dumb pug groups and the stress of having to win halls to get back in.

ShadowsRequiem · Feb 26, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

I vote YES
or else i'll never stop solo farming those damn pink globs of phantom poo.

Besides I'd RATHER PVP

'

Seriously if your all so bent out of shape..... Switch to euro servers and pve fow/uw all friggen day till your hearts content

you can switch back 4 times.

CassiusDrehyg · Feb 26, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

I vote yes, for two reasons:

1) I hate PvE carebears, and would like nothing more than for them to be miserable.

2) It's a system that works. Leave it alone.

RichPowers · Feb 26, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Seriously if your all so bent out of shape..... Switch to euro servers and pve fow/uw all friggen day till your hearts content

See, more proof that the system is broke. NA and Euro players can switch locations and bypass the restrictions. What's the point!? Too bad players in Japan and Korea don't have that option.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassiusDrehyg

I vote yes, for two reasons:

1) I hate PvE carebears, and would like nothing more than for them to be miserable.

What if I said, "I hate PvP jerks like Cassius and would like nothing more than them to be miserable. Therefore, they should progress through a boring, poorly-acted PvE campaign just to have access to PvP that they want." Hardly seems fair, does it?

jcapulet · Feb 26, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassiusDrehyg

1) I hate PvE carebears, and would like nothing more than for them to be miserable.

Troll much...?

ca_aok · Feb 26, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

I'd wager half the people who post the economic arguments don't even know how an economy works, they just spew it out to make themselves sound smart.

If shard/ecto prices were that destroyed by constant access, the prices of ectos and shards would ALREADY BE SHATTERED, since Europe has access 18 hours a day, and they definately use it. The traders are linked throughout the regions, so if the prices plummeted in Europe they would also plummet server wide. Clearly this hasn't happened. If anything, ectos have gone UP in price, though they are plateauing now at around 8-9K per. Removing PvE dependance on PvP won't affect this in the least, because there will always be players who are too lazy to farm for FoW and simply ebay it, buying their materials and jacking up the prices.

Again, this is a nonsensical dependance on arbitrary PvP battles. I quite like the idea of forcing everyone who wishes to HA to have a protector title on the character they wish to use. Is it unfair? Yep. Is it arbitrary and useless? Yep. Does it force PvP players to depend on a game mode they don't enjoy? Yep. Welcome to our world.

The Bloodrose · Feb 26, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

I vote No. But honestly this thread is useless. When has Anet ever listened to any of these threads? Shit they asked us Months ago is we wanted the skill hunter title broken up. The vote was a landslide Yes. Has anything been done about it? Nope. We probably wont find out that nothing was done till chapter 4 comes out.

RichPowers · Feb 27, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bloodrose

I vote No. But honestly this thread is useless. When has Anet ever listened to any of these threads? Shit they asked us Months ago is we wanted the skill hunter title broken up. The vote was a landslide Yes. Has anything been done about it? Nope. We probably wont find out that nothing was done till chapter 4 comes out.

I could see Anet changing Chapter 4 to get rid of PvP control, but I don't see them ever changing Prophecies' issues. Call it cynicism hehe