Curse

jshrimp3 · Mar 27, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

That's nice. Did you know that several countries don't make people adhere to that? And did you know that hackers can still bypass that entirely?

Several countries don't respect copyright laws anyway. So whether the EULA is on paper or online is irrelevant.

Saerden · Mar 27, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

So lets say ANET does indeed send me a written contract, I sign it and send it back.

It contains, amonst other things, the following:

17. Thou shallst not buy gold on ebay.

Then i go to Ebay and buy 1000 Gold for 100E. Anet ignores the negative PR this might bring (guy playing game -> prison) and takes me to court.

Then the european supreme court decides that the passage about RMT is illegal and therefor not enforceable. Now what?

Law trumps contracts. I dont know a place where you could sign away your kidneys for 1000$. Companies do not rule the world yet.

Maybe some parts of the world (not china, they are afraid to lose controll over the countries finances thanks to MMO economies) allow RMT either based on objective reasons (more taxes) or on moral ("you dont sell ANETs property, but your time and effort.").

MSecorsky · Mar 27, 2007, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Interesting… I’m not hating this “anonymous auction” at all. Even better than the “no more gold” idea I initially speculated about. I would add a couple constraints…
1. The auctions are the only means of trading or selling items
2. Only items may be bid on, and they may only be paid for with gold.
3. Items must be on the auction for a minimum period of time… such as 48 hours.
4. Highest bid after 48 hours gets the item
5. Maximum bid is 100 platinum, period.

I would also add a trade caveat… you may trade freely with people in your guild, provided you both have been in the guild for a minimum of one week.

Need to think about the 100 Plat cap… but it does set a ceiling and prevent uber-expensiveness. Not sure if I love it… don’t completely hate it…

There is a thought that someone could “coordinate” putting say 5 glittering dust out there and having someone max bid it. Here’s the counter folks… if we see someone putting piles of 5 dust out there and reaping the rewards… do the same. It won’t take too many tries with the sellers accidentally paying the wrong accounts to really make them (and buyers) sad.

Wildi · Mar 27, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

yea sure

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko_UK

This thread should be killed in pre-searing and allowed to remain dead.

this is the only intelligent post so far, i'm serious

MSecorsky · Mar 27, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildi

yea sure

this is the only intelligent post so far, i'm serious

If you're capable of an original thought, then please, amaze us with your brilliance.

But then again, you're quoting someone that stole that line from me in a different thread, so I'm not optimistic.

Aar0n · Mar 27, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

I say add gold to the GW store, at a competitive price. Too busy to buy your new armor? Pay for your gold. However, buying gold gives you a title. Make it say you're from a well-to-do family, a baron, a noble, or a prince. It'll make you look pretty foolish and lazy next to the guy who has better stuff than you and didn't spend a real-world dime on it.

Peter Panic · Mar 27, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

i say keep the ebay gold. Keep in mind that i, personally dont buy ebay gold, but if other ppl want to ruin the game for themselves, i dont have a problem with it. Go ahead and let them, but dont make us suffer through ridiculous ways of stoping ebay bc a few selct ppl decided that they were going to drain the fun out of the game for themselves.

MSecorsky · Mar 27, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aar0n

I say add gold to the GW store, at a competitive price. Too busy to buy your new armor? Pay for your gold. However, buying gold gives you a title. Make it say you're from a well-to-do family, a baron, a noble, or a prince. It'll make you look pretty foolish and lazy next to the guy who has better stuff than you and didn't spend a real-world dime on it.

Part of me screams BRILLIANT!, but another part wonders of the effects of suddenly cheap massive amounts of gold being inserted into the market. There would be so much gold that gold would be worthless.

This would work to stifle the gold sellers heavily I agree... but what of the cost in the long run... that needs to be considered.

jshrimp3 · Mar 27, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

To be honest I don't think the problem is big enough to sacrifice anything to help alleviate it, but the ideas and whatnot I've proposed are all hypothetical, in case Anet wanted to get rid of the gold farmers.

Obey The Cat · Mar 27, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

mobs in gw2 won't drop gold when killed, that's stated in the article.

dunno exactly if it was gw2 related and in that article. it was hardmode related maybe. can't find this statement anymore, I'm sorry.

Exoudeous · Mar 27, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Interesting… I’m not hating this “anonymous auction” at all. Even better than the “no more gold” idea I initially speculated about. I would add a couple constraints…
1. The auctions are the only means of trading or selling items
2. Only items may be bid on, and they may only be paid for with gold.
3. Items must be on the auction for a minimum period of time… such as 48 hours.
4. Highest bid after 48 hours gets the item
5. Maximum bid is 100 platinum, period.

I would also add a trade caveat… you may trade freely with people in your guild, provided you both have been in the guild for a minimum of one week.

Need to think about the 100 Plat cap… but it does set a ceiling and prevent uber-expensiveness. Not sure if I love it… don’t completely hate it…

There is a thought that someone could “coordinate” putting say 5 glittering dust out there and having someone max bid it. Here’s the counter folks… if we see someone putting piles of 5 dust out there and reaping the rewards… do the same. It won’t take too many tries with the sellers accidentally paying the wrong accounts to really make them (and buyers) sad.

thats not really how auction houses are set up in mmos.

see, you put the item up with its price. the buyer then looks up the item, and it lists how many of the item there are, and price history. you then input a price, and if its above any of the sell points that are hidden from the buyer, you get that item. You cant have a seperate auction for every item that would just be to much to go through

Making it like a real auction is rather stupid as you have to wait a long time to get your money/ item which just slows down the game

and there shoudlnt be a price cap, if there was people jsut wouldnt sell the rarer items on auction house, and dont say get rid of trading, cause thats just a no go, that would make the game far to much of a hassel, just cause you want to stop ebayers, which dont have much of an effect on gw because the way its set up anyway

MSecorsky · Mar 27, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exoudeous

thats not really how auction houses are set up in mmos.

So? This is a "think outside the box" thread.

New. Original. Speculative.

Have fun. Think.

Exoudeous · Mar 27, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

i did think and i explaind why some things are done a certain way.

if you try and take so much freedom away in the game world it becames lame, all cause you want to stop ebayers. but you wouldnt care about ebayers if the game is to lame to even play.

and once again, i fail to see why you want so many safe guards, ebay has little effect on guild wars cause of how its set up. the biggest problem about gold sellers isnt the fact that they sell gold at all.

its the fact that the horde all items drops and sell them at high prices so no one could get them, thus making it more likely to have people want to ebay gold.

in gw you can not horde drops because you are in your own instance and have no chance of getting your mob stolen. thus the players dictate teh price, making the item pries more realistic and making buying gold on ebay useless.

Antheus · Mar 28, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

The only way to TOTALLY remove the threat of Ebay, is to make ALL items Customized. If you have no way to trade another player anything, there is no way to make profit off it.

GW item farming service (let us farm for you):
- FoW armor (1 week / character) $200
- Elemental sword (1 week / character) $100
- Ecto (5$ per, limit of 5 per day)
...

As long as there exists an item with perceived value, someone will capitalize on it.

It's the nature of universe (seriously, physics explains why "valueable" things apear)

The Herbalizer · Mar 28, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aar0n

I say add gold to the GW store, at a competitive price. Too busy to buy your new armor? Pay for your gold. However, buying gold gives you a title. Make it say you're from a well-to-do family, a baron, a noble, or a prince. It'll make you look pretty foolish and lazy next to the guy who has better stuff than you and didn't spend a real-world dime on it.

Except some people dont have a problem admitting they buy gold. They admit they want nice items and dont have the time to grind to get them.

mrmango · Mar 28, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19

This issue is easily deemed unsolvable I guess. =\
I could get swayed to favor the anti-ebaying side, but ANet has thought of this for sure.

jshrimp3 · Mar 28, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

GW item farming service (let us farm for you):
- FoW armor (1 week / character) $200
- Elemental sword (1 week / character) $100
- Ecto (5$ per, limit of 5 per day)
...

As long as there exists an item with perceived value, someone will capitalize on it.

It's the nature of universe (seriously, physics explains why "valueable" things apear)

That requires trusting a complete stranger with your account. Not something the average joe would be willing to do.

lyra_song · Mar 28, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshrimp3

That requires trusting a complete stranger with your account. Not something the average joe would be willing to do.

why do powerleveling services exist?

Because some joe is willing to pay a guy to level his char while he's at work.

Is the average joe a gold buyer or a hardcore MMOG-er or a casual MMOG-er? Thats the question to ask. What would the average person do?

Quote:

To be honest I don't think the problem is big enough to sacrifice anything to help alleviate it, but the ideas and whatnot I've proposed are all hypothetical, in case Anet wanted to get rid of the gold farmers.

I totally agree. Thats why these ideas are all very extreme.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saerden

So lets say ANET does indeed send me a written contract, I sign it and send it back.

It contains, amonst other things, the following:

17. Thou shallst not buy gold on ebay.

Then i go to Ebay and buy 1000 Gold for 100E. Anet ignores the negative PR this might bring (guy playing game -> prison) and takes me to court.

Then the european supreme court decides that the passage about RMT is illegal and therefor not enforceable. Now what?

Law trumps contracts. I dont know a place where you could sign away your kidneys for 1000$. Companies do not rule the world yet.

Maybe some parts of the world (not china, they are afraid to lose controll over the countries finances thanks to MMO economies) allow RMT either based on objective reasons (more taxes) or on moral ("you dont sell ANETs property, but your time and effort.").

Law can trump or uphold a contract.

My idea of the "hardcore EULA" is the intent to have a contract that is solid enough that Anet can bring you to court for damages based on breaching said contract. Regardless of how you breach the contract. This isn't just about RMT anymore.

Let the law decide if RMT is legal or not. I wanna know the stance of the courts so the future legality can no longer be simply negated with a disclaimer of "i sell time and effort not property".

====================

On a side note, i see RMT as copyright infringement since it is using a game companies IP for commercial purposes outside of the TOS and EULA.

lucifer_uk · Mar 28, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

I really don't think its an issue worth pissing off the majority of the community with new bars and restrictions. I know someone who has purchased gold and i don't think any less of him for doing it. Just because i have time in the day to play guild wars to farm etc and he hasn't. I put my time in and he puts his money in. We're both on a level footing and are both happy.