Curse

Sir Skullcrasher · Mar 23, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

I have to agree that locking all the rare items onto player's account and making it non-tradeable would solve this issues. But the backlash from this would be players whining or complaining how they want to transfer that rare items to their other accounts or let their friends borrow it.

MSecorsky · Mar 23, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Skullcrasher

I have to agree that locking all the rare items onto player's account and making it non-tradeable would solve this issues. But the backlash from this would be players whining or complaining how they want to transfer that rare items to their other accounts or let their friends borrow it.

True, true...

Hmm... here's another thought that's certain to add a lot of discontent...

Don't allow trades, but allow one way transfers. I can transfer you a weapon in one transaction, but you can't give me anything back in that transaction... I'd have to trust you to create a new transaction. Human nature what it is, there are enough scum-sucking scammers out there to most likely reduce transfers to trusted friends or the stupid.

I hate that idea personally, but this isn't about likes, just ideas...

Guildmaster Cain · Mar 23, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

It would not just ruin ingame economy, like farmers do, but altogether, REMOVE it all from game. Which is not what Anet wants, since ingame economy is something all MMORPGS boats about...

Miss Persephone · Mar 23, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

The removal of gold from ebay should make a difference to the ease of buying it in GW2 as compared to GW1. It's true that where there is a will, there's a way; but most people are only willing to accept so much risk. Ebay had a system of user feedback and rules which allowed compensation for goods not received; buying from a rogue website is much more risky.

Removing gold from the game certainly won't work. As has already been stated, some other form of material would replace it. If you had some trader 1 on 1 system, people would just farm the easiest materials possible to exchange for the rarest at the trader. Having gold makes working out the actual value of items much easier for the players, and allows them not to have to carry around 1000 pieces of steel; thats the point of real world currency.

I'm not sure locking items is the answer either. If GW2 has similar professions to GW1, then what use would a customised Urgoz Longbow be to me if I have no ranger (to use an example)? Weapons seem to be the items which people covet the most, and I really don't relish having to farm something over and over and over and hope for a drop in order to acquire a nice weapon that I could have bought.

The only answer I can see that realistically works is having a dedicated team who look out for this kind of stuff and ban accounts. Farmers will only buy so many real life accounts and get them banned before they decide its not worth it anymore.

Mordakai · Mar 23, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

It would not just ruin ingame economy, like farmers do, but altogether, REMOVE it all from game. Which is not what Anet wants, since ingame economy is something all MMORPGS boats about...

Well, maybe it's time to think outside the box.

Think about it... why do people grind to get more gold? So they can get "leet" stuff.

Well, we're not taking away their "leet" stuff. In fact, if you have "leet" stuff in a system with no trading, we KNOW you earned it. There's no accusations of scamming or ebaying... you own it, so you must have earned it.

I honestly never understood why this concept was not popular, but then, I'm not a farmer. Maybe a trader can explain it to me?

Miss Persephone - a valid point about getting useless items. I guess the upside, maybe such a drop would encourage you to make a Ranger? But, I see your point and that is a downside to a "no-trade" system.

As for other downsides of no gold, such as buying 15k armor - this would be an easy fix. You accumulate non-transferable tokens to cash in for your armor. Again, people wearing the stuff have earned it. And there will, of course, be max versions of all armor and weapons (Collector) available to those of us who don't feel like grinding.

flamegrilled cheese · Mar 23, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Ebay have forbidden virtual sales of MMO gold or items because of confusion over who is the rightful owner of it. The MMO company or the player. Happened a few weeks ago. Still dosen't stop sites other than ebay though.

Shanaeri Rynale · Mar 23, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

I don't think you can. So long as there is any kind of ingame currency or trade people will find ways to farm to sell it.

I'm not sure the effects on the actual GW 1 economy have been, but I do know that many of the nerfs we have had over the years would not have happend had it been for Gold for cash selling

Thinking totally laterally, off the wall and out of my tree, maybe a system like second life would work, where you buy optional stuff via the in game store. I.e it's all micropayment based.

I'm not sure I like that idea myself, but it would get rid of gold for cash sellers and replace it by an offical system

MSecorsky · Mar 23, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Persephone

Removing gold from the game certainly won't work. As has already been stated, some other form of material would replace it. If you had some trader 1 on 1 system, people would just farm the easiest materials possible to exchange for the rarest at the trader. Having gold makes working out the actual value of items much easier for the players, and allows them not to have to carry around 1000 pieces of steel; thats the point of real world currency.

But there would truly be no "rarest" materials. Different critters may drop different things, but you could always trade for whatever you needed. You could even, hypothetically, have "rare" materials trade at a five to one ratio for "common" materials at the trader without the need for gold or "value".

Quote:

I'm not sure locking items is the answer either. If GW2 has similar professions to GW1, then what use would a customised Urgoz Longbow be to me if I have no ranger (to use an example)? Weapons seem to be the items which people covet the most, and I really don't relish having to farm something over and over and over and hope for a drop in order to acquire a nice weapon that I could have bought.

If locking were account wide, you could either create a ranger or trade it to a 'weapons trader' one for one for something you actually do need, and allow a different player access to that weapon.

Quote:

The only answer I can see that realistically works is having a dedicated team who look out for this kind of stuff and ban accounts. Farmers will only buy so many real life accounts and get them banned before they decide its not worth it anymore.

I think that's because you're still stuck in the mindset that every game to date has put us into, with gold, platinum, value, rarity, etc.

Sir Skullcrasher · Mar 23, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

What if there is no gold system in GW2? What if every weapons and items is now crafted from materials only and don't need gold to craft?

Miss Persephone · Mar 23, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

If locking were account wide, you could either create a ranger or trade it to a 'weapons trader' one for one for something you actually do need, and allow a different player access to that weapon.

I think that's because you're still stuck in the mindset that every game to date has put us into, with gold, platinum, value, rarity, etc.

Firstly regarding creating a ranger; there are 10 professions in GW1 as we know it. No one knows if professions will be the same, or if there will be the same amount, but with the much higher level cap I think people will be concentrating on less characters. I certainly don't want to have to make a new character just to use the sweet bow that just dropped.

A weapons trader could work; but think about the range of weapons in GW1. Although all max weapons function the same, some cost more simply because they look better and are harder to acquire. Seems mighty cumbersome to me to have a trader where you can pick any weapon avaliable. I'm not sure this is what the playerbase would want at all; an equality of everything.

I see what you are getting at, trying to get people to think outside the box and the like, but I don't like being told I'm stuck in a mindset; it's not just every game to date that has put value into gold/platinum whatever, its how real life economies work. Ingame economies are a miniature version of economies in the real world as such. ANet would need some seriously awesome economists in order to have a completly controlled economy that functioned. What about event items? Miniatures? Currently these kind of items have no merchant value but find a value among the players.

Imo, having no gold and making all weapons, materials and the like the same would make the game boring and stale. If I can easily get anything ingame, whats the point of playing?

MSecorsky · Mar 23, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Persephone

Imo, having no gold and making all weapons, materials and the like the same would make the game boring and stale. If I can easily get anything ingame, whats the point of playing?

Dare I say it...

... For the content.

This, of course, places a heavy burden on ANet. They would need to replace with quality what some people would be missing.

Sir Skullcrasher · Mar 23, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Money don't buy you happiness, it just makes you look better!

Bryant Again · Mar 23, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Persephone

Imo, having no gold and making all weapons, materials and the like the same would make the game boring and stale. If I can easily get anything ingame, whats the point of playing?

Ah so you only care about the money and goods. Ok.

On Topic: This all seems like an inevitable problem. There will always be *some* way for eBayers to find a way to exploit the game, the biggest being cash. It seems as though Arenanet is pretty good at getting at the people selling the items and other services. It's the "companies" who actually sell the gold itself that's a problem, mainly because they have many resources to sell from.

I'm going to keep watching this thread, I find this pretty concerning.

Miss Persephone · Mar 23, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Ah so you only care about the money and goods. Ok.

Don't be patronising and rude. I'm saying that part of the enjoyment of the game is the challenge of getting rare stuff. There's no need to get personal. I enjoy missions and quests as well but in any game once you've completed the storyline and all the bits associated with that you look for something else to do. I don't expect ANet to provide new content endlessly so that I perpetually have quests left in my log.

MSecorsky · Mar 23, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Persephone

Don't be patronising and rude. I'm saying that part of the enjoyment of the game is the challenge of getting rare stuff.

Hey, I love the heck out of finding rare stuff. I think it would impact the gold sellers quite heavily, though, if either the rare weapon (for example) was customized to your account. Hmm... customized to the account... unless you trade it to a trader. Then customization comes off until someone barters for it.

Of course, if there was no gold, then gold sellers become extinct.

Chilly Ress · Mar 23, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Just to clarify a few things. All GW gold has been removed from eBay. You must go to the store's actual website to purchase said gold.

MSecorsky · Mar 23, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Ress

Just to clarify a few things. All GW gold has been removed from eBay. You must go to the store's actual website to purchase said gold.

Allow be to re-clarify. Go to EBay right now, search Guild Wars.

Hundreds of sellers of gold.

October Jade · Mar 23, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Tetris has it right on this one. You cannot dictatorially equate the value of one item with another; another market will simply emerge in its place. The same thing happened in the U.S. back when the government had a fixed price for gold certificates. People simply cheated the system through relentless arbitrage.

The only way to remove the abuse of player-to-player transactions is to prevent them entirely. This would mean a few drastic changes from the current system:
1) You could only buy and sell materials, dyes, runes, etc. through the traders. I wouldn't care if they adopted this system now, provided the merchants' buy/sell gap was lessened.
2) There would need to be an auction system for rare-skinned weapons and other things that are not carried by traders. However, the seller would have to be willing to relinquish control of the item before it went to auction for an up-front price based on previous sales of similar items. Otherwise the auction would be subject to underhanded behavior such as inflating the price with a second account or having guildmates bid.
3) The trash bin would become the only means of getting rid of items. If players were able to drop them on the ground, this would probably become the de facto means of trade.

I might add to this list as I ponder the idea longer, but this is a good start. My main intention was to debunk the socialist/bartering suggestions that were made prior to my post. Simply put, they don't function well in the real world; they won't work for a virtual one either.

Obey The Cat · Mar 23, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

mobs in gw2 won't drop gold when killed, that's stated in the article.

= no farmers

= no gold-ebay'ing

kkthxbye

Yunas Ele · Mar 23, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

True, true...

Hmm... here's another thought that's certain to add a lot of discontent...

Don't allow trades, but allow one way transfers. I can transfer you a weapon in one transaction, but you can't give me anything back in that transaction... I'd have to trust you to create a new transaction. Human nature what it is, there are enough scum-sucking scammers out there to most likely reduce transfers to trusted friends or the stupid.

I hate that idea personally, but this isn't about likes, just ideas...

No offense, but that idea fails. First off, how will one way transfers prevent ebayers? Its a one-way transfer in game now as it is. The buyer pays the gold farmer via paypal or whatever and then the farmer gives the player their gold. Its a two way transaction, but as far as in game goes, its only one way. So that won't stop it.

Secondly, what good does it do? Only being allowed to trade with trusted friends? I honestly can't see anything good coming out of that.... Trading with other people is an important part of the game.

Honestly, there isn't any way I can think of that can stop ebayers without also making the game worse for non-ebay players (such as, no trading, all items customized, etc...)