Curse

Dreikki · Mar 31, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Ryker

Because you can't go back to pre.

Imo it's because hard mode would make LDOA too easy.

Does-it-Matter · Mar 31, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Here's another thing...

When I was reading Gaile's posts regarding Hard Mode, she mentioned that the non-Hard Mode (regular mode, easy mode, etc.) would be EASIER than it is currently. This is to include no fleeing from AoE, etc.

So even if you want (or if the game requires it) the other players to have the Protector title, if they gain it during the new "easy mode" it wouldn't be as hard or as "proving" as when you got it.

Just food for thought.

Light of Cantha · Mar 31, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

I think hard mode is an attempt to refocus the game on it's multiplayer nature. There are so many threads on here about how PUGs are dying. Yet, even before we see what hard mode entails, elitism has somehow become necessary.

Everything said by developers seem to hint that difficulty will be created by proper bars, and better AI. I don't see why it is necessary for hard mode PvE to degenerate down to having an MM, SF, and so forth.

Anyway, seems to me if you are being very selective, you are looking for nothing more than heroes. Not a multiplayer experience.

Dj Tano · Apr 01, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Hard mode sucks!

Its just like bonuses, where people end up saying "bonus or i leave" in some places like fire islands...

I understand the serious people who just do that with friends/guild/special "hard mode" group, but i just know that 75% of the people who are going to try hard mode are going to be complete n00bs.

Dahl · Apr 01, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartan117

Geez, i guess the fraze about next gen games is true. normal is the new hard. games have been getting harder, not just on the consoles i see, puters too!

Are you kidding me?

Oh, it's sarcasm lol okay good, I'm glad, or I'd have had to hurt you.

Games are getting easier and easier. There is no console game that I can't beat in a weekend. I remember when NES/SNES games would last me MONTHS.

I had nightfall beaten in a weekend, and factions beat BEFORE I WENT TO BED the day that I bought it.

Hard mode will be something fresh. I hope they make hard mode SO RIDICULOUSLY HARD that you can't be run anywhere, can't pay anyone to take you through anything, so that when you get hard mode titles, they will MEAN something.

"Require all humans"?

Unless you're playing with guildmates you know and trust, heroes are always better than humans. Dunkoro can keep me alive. I wouldn't trust a human monk farther than I could kick him.

I suppose I should collect protector titles now though to compliment my success of hard mode.

I hope they don't just make it slightly harder. I'm a little sad that they're making normal mode afflicted explosions easier. I think they should leave afflicted alone for normal mode, and make it do TRIPLE damage in hard mode. Boss afflicted explosions should be instant kill in hard mode. Make players require SKILL for once, and not money for a runner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaganher Deathbane

I hope Anet learned from past experiences and make hard mode a friendly environment and free from elitism. We will see. Crossing my fingers on this one

Oh don't worry. ArenaNET has come out with this new magical device that let's them control their customers' minds and make them friendly and without elitist attitudes.

It's not arenaNET's fault there is elitism. It's human nature. The way I see it, if you aren't good enough to complete something, you don't deserve to get it completed. Get better, and you'll complete it.

(no, I am not a high ranked player in halls, I did not IWAY, I did not Blood Spike. I don't even PLAY in halls ever! But the part that gets me about gw is that you can just PAY someone to play your game for you. You then proceed to call other, more hard working players noobs when really, you didn't do a thing)

I think all areas should be full of monsters that WRECK runners, to prevent people paying for mission completion.

Please aNET, this is your last chance to provide us with a title that MATTERS. Give us something to REALLY measure players' skill with.

Throw everything you have at me, I will cut them all down.

Haggard · Apr 01, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

A huge proportion of players are of.. limited skill. Making hard mode very hard is going to invoke a mass backlash.

Zinger314 · Apr 01, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

A huge proportion of players are of.. limited skill. Making hard mode very hard is going to invoke a mass backlash.

There was massive backlash when DoA was released (and when Mallyx was buffed to be more difficult. Has anyone killed him since?) That didn't stop ArenaNet from making it too difficult.

Nilator · Apr 01, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

I know that Hard Mode will be effecting normal loot, what about chests?

Bill Easternview · Apr 01, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Hard mode is just a way to force people to do things they could do on their own, but won't.

Want HARD mode? Stick with Noobie armor through out the entire game. Do not buy ANY armor. Stick with your Noobie weapon through the entire game. Do not buy ANY weapons. Play every mission SOLO, No Henchies, no Heros, just you. Do not pick up any drops, ever!

That ought to make it a bit Harder don't you think???

Neo Nugget · Apr 01, 2007, 03:26 AM // 03:26

will mallyx and urgoz and kanaxai still have only 3 greens drops when beaten in hard mode?Im betting there might be something more.

Chris616263 · Apr 01, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Easternview

Hard mode is just a way to force people to do things they could do on their own, but won't.

Want HARD mode? Stick with Noobie armor through out the entire game. Do not buy ANY armor. Stick with your Noobie weapon through the entire game. Do not buy ANY weapons. Play every mission SOLO, No Henchies, no Heros, just you. Do not pick up any drops, ever!

That ought to make it a bit Harder don't you think???

I hope ANet nerfs your chatbox. DEE DUH DEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

I wouldn't trust a human monk farther than I could kick him.

Agreed 100%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

I think all areas should be full of monsters that WRECK runners, to prevent people paying for mission completion.

I like the way you think.

erfweiss · Apr 01, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

The real question I would have is that if hard mode is truely "hard", when will people begin to open up and chance other players? I look at it that I'm the greatest player on the planet. That said, I have 9 different professions with all 3 campaigns done.

The problem with "Elitism" from the core is everyone thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread. When are you going to go on faith of a players skill?

More curiousity than anything else.

strcpy · Apr 01, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

Games are getting easier and easier. There is no console game that I can't beat in a weekend. I remember when NES/SNES games would last me MONTHS.

I find something of the same thing, however going back to some of the old NES or PC games it is hard because of the same reason that the DoA is hard - they cheat. Just back then we didn't rely on lots of other humans as they were balanced around single player. There are exceptions.

Quote:

Hard mode will be something fresh. I hope they make hard mode SO RIDICULOUSLY HARD that you can't be run anywhere, can't pay anyone to take you through anything, so that when you get hard mode titles, they will MEAN something.

Me too, for me I prefer a killing field or a challenge for PvE. One of the things I really preferred for prophecies for was the gradual increase in difficulty - ToPK (while a late addition) is a doable challenge with hench only and I could always find a place that was a challenge to solo with *any* class.

My hope is that they allow 7 heroes to be included so I can do a whole team build also, even if that team is hard to get through (even better). I also hope they have better skill bars and at least have a few "choke points" where we face balanced teams and a few "gimmick builds" that a balanced team build would blow through but kills the general gimmick builds.

Quote:

Unless you're playing with guildmates you know and trust, heroes are always better than humans. Dunkoro can keep me alive. I wouldn't trust a human monk farther than I could kick him.

I wouldn't go that far, but I mostly agree. I hate human groups for other reasons also, I've hench'ed and now hero'ed everything I have gotten.

Quote:

I suppose I should collect protector titles now though to compliment my success of hard mode.

I'm doing the same thing, Unfortunately a protector title can be purchased now. I'm not sure that all of them are, but most of the missions I had to work for now have runners that do masters/bonus and I refuse to use them for ones I have not gotten.

Quote:

I hope they don't just make it slightly harder. I'm a little sad that they're making normal mode afflicted explosions easier. I think they should leave afflicted alone for normal mode, and make it do TRIPLE damage in hard mode. Boss afflicted explosions should be instant kill in hard mode. Make players require SKILL for once, and not money for a runner.

This, I do not agree. Afflicted explosions should be reduced for the benefit of a number of classes (assassins for one). Especially with a "hard mode" the normal mode should be fairly straight forward - non-casual players will blow through any normal mode stuff anyway and allowing more casual player through will increase sales (and help us all in the long run). Nor do I think a boss kill should be "insta-kill" - there is no "balance" around that. I would agree with "insta-kill unless a prot monk has had their way with you" (or other damage reduction class/skill set), but a total wipe of every tank on a boss kill is kinda lame.

Quote:

It's not arenaNET's fault there is elitism. It's human nature. The way I see it, if you aren't good enough to complete something, you don't deserve to get it completed. Get better, and you'll complete it.

To some extent, I like the idea of allowing casual players to get things and have other things that only experienced good players can get. I want all level to be happy, not just one or the other.

Quote:

But the part that gets me about gw is that you can just PAY someone to play your game for you. You then proceed to call other, more hard working players noobs when really, you didn't do a thing

Welcome to the online gaming world. pretty much every online game allows this, though with other games it comes with purchasing better weapons and GW is purchasing higher ranked titles.

Quote:

I think all areas should be full of monsters that WRECK runners, to prevent people paying for mission completion.

Hard mode for sure, regular who cares?

Quote:

Please aNET, this is your last chance to provide us with a title that MATTERS. Give us something to REALLY measure players' skill with.

In computer science we have a class of problems that fit in this category, in Artificial Intelligence it is called a "Turing test". That is, can we create a program that takes human input and responds in a way that makes the human think another human is responding? We argue if this is possible or not - personally I fall on the "impossible" side. In this case there is not going to ever be a simple title that really measures a player's skill, though some will be better than others. There will *always* be the persistent gob that is the lone person pulled through every single mission (hard mode or not, and for every title out there) or a group of people willing to pull that gob through for money. Anet will *never* provide this because it is impossible to do so, if you really need this then I suggest you quit playing online or multi-player games (or at the least only play within your guild or friends list).

Skyy High · Apr 01, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

It wouldn't make sense that you could go fight lv. 20+ Charr after you get out of Pre-Searing. Plus, it would confuse people if there were multiple versions...

Last Day Dawns?

Zinger314 · Apr 01, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

I'm doing the same thing, Unfortunately a protector title can be purchased now. I'm not sure that all of them are, but most of the missions I had to work for now have runners that do masters/bonus and I refuse to use them for ones I have not gotten.

The only missions that can really be run are the lame Tyria missions (Ascention Missions, among others). Those are easy enough to do with Heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Last Day Dawns?

Let me requote your lack of reading comprehension.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderful Me

It wouldn't make sense that you could go fight lv. 20+ Charr after you get out of Pre-Searing. Plus, it would confuse people if there were multiple versions...

I would have thought "immediately" was implied, which is in context of the original post. But no...

strcpy · Apr 01, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

The only missions that can really be run are the lame Tyria missions (Ascention Missions, among others). Those are easy enough to do with Heroes.

Lots of the Elonan ones are quite runnable - hang around the outposts Ruins of Morah, Jennur's Horde, Dzoganur Bastion, and a few of the others that people tend to have trouble getting masters. They may not be *solo* runners, however they are still purchased.

Lets face it, your 2 minion masters and two SF ele groups leave a possible four people to be run through most missions should you choose to do so. Given that people are getting upwards of 4-8k per person on missions that take 10 minutes to complete, not bad profit. I'm sure a decent 7 man group could make it through Gates of Madness - less as they gained experience doing it, 20-30k (or more) for a masters run divvied up? Again not bad profit - probably not something people are going to sit and spam local to get, however there are plenty of running groups out there that do this kind of thing.

Cantha would more than likely be harder due to several masters level completions needing a fast time but I bet it is doable, at the least you can eventually find a PUG to get you through the one or two not purchasable. Both in Tyria and Elona it is quite possible to purchase a protector title and if they are semi-smart almost anyone can afford it if they trade their trade contracts in for rubies/sapphires.

ForgeWhelp · Apr 01, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

But to be honest I fear the 'hard' mose as it reaks more of more time consuming and/or frustrating rather than making it more challenging in a fun way.

And Factions on 'hard' mode? Yeck.

Personally I got all my protector titles with either only henchies/heros or the occsional human. I like my game that way, such that I don't have to stand around for hours waiting for a good enough party to gather to be able to do a mission.

Dear God, timed missions harder? Not my idea of fun.

To me, hard mode simply is a way of asking the people that play "how much punishment will you put up with to get a new title?"

I will more than likely not bother, unless they have actually added some fun rather than harder stuff that is exactly the same as before.

"Oh look a dwarf that takes 12 hits to die instead of 8, woohoo...and oh wait he ressurects now...double woohoo"

JoeKnowMo · Apr 01, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

A Protector title may be required to access Hard Mode which would then take care of elitism.

If it's not required to play Hard mode, relying on the Protector title isn't as good a filter as getting players to call their skills. Somone may have all 3 prot titles on 6 chars, but may not have it on the char they're currently playing. I'll take whoever and then ask them to ding skills. If skillbar is crap and they won't change it, they get the boot.

Bill Easternview · Apr 02, 2007, 02:53 AM // 02:53

I do wonder what to expect from hard mode. What types of players will be happy. The Title Chasers or the Expensive Armor Buyers or the Braggarts, it would be nice if all were, but its gonna be tough.

All the monsters are higher level?
Double the number of monsters at each location?
Maximum party size cut in half?
You have to have a party consisting of a specific suite of professions?
But don't tell what that suite is, let folks figure it out by playing over and over.
You have to have certain Elite skills available?
But don't tell what Elites are needed where, let folks figure it out by playing over and over.
Different maps?
Different monsters?
Shorter timer (for timed mission), or make all missions timed?

There are many ways for the game to be modified to make it harder, the question is will anyone play it that way? Will the rewards be worth the added trouble? And what will those rewards do to the non-Hard mode players? If you make super-duper Green weapons available in Hard mode, then what happens when people use them in non-hard mode missions and areas? If you make Gold drops larger in hard mode, that could effect the economics of the game, putting too much money into circulation causes inflation, effectively pricing non-hard mode players out of the marketplace.

A tough balancing act, keep the people who are "tired" of normal mode interested in the game, while not driving all the normal-mode-only players away to some other game. I hope the designers are working through all the potential scenarios.

Spazzer · Apr 02, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

I wouldn't trust a human monk farther than I could kick him.

Yeah. I was playing with human monks the other day and they would NOT heal the minions! At least Dunkoro, Talkorah, and Mhenlo know what their job is.