Curse

lennymon · Apr 10, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

um...riiiight.
HEY GUYS! I found the passive aggressive PVP vs PVE rant thread! Over here!

look, GW is both, together, not one or the other. They(Anet) want GW to be the best game they can make it, not pvp-gw or pve-gw. So get out of the selfishly one sided mindsets and play(or at least learn to see) GW, not pve-gw and pvp-gw (note use of caps and lack thereof). If you don't wanna play the whole game, hey it's cool do what you wanna do yer money you are wasting by not taking advantage of the other half of the game.

Balancing of skills is balancing of skills...it's for the whole GW world, it IS NOT TIED to PVP get over it, just more obvious there when something is imbalanced. Since there is no head to head PVE its kind of difficult to really gauge how balanced the skills are since we're comparing apples and oranges.

Bryant Again · Apr 10, 2007, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

um...riiiight.
HEY GUYS! I found the passive aggressive PVP vs PVE rant thread! Over here!

look, GW is both, together, not one or the other. They(Anet) want GW to be the best game they can make it, not pvp-gw or pve-gw. So get out of the selfishly one sided mindsets and play(or at least learn to see) GW, not pve-gw and pvp-gw (note use of caps and lack thereof). If you don't wanna play the whole game, hey it's cool do what you wanna do yer money you are wasting by not taking advantage of the other half of the game.

Balancing of skills is balancing of skills...it's for the whole GW world, it IS NOT TIED to PVP get over it, just more obvious there when something is imbalanced. Since there is no head to head PVE its kind of difficult to really gauge how balanced the skills are since we're comparing apples and oranges.

You say "Guild Wars is both PvE and PvP", and then you compare balancing them to comparing apples and oranges.

Yes they are indeed two games. Not only is it seen and evident through the gameplay, it's easily noticeable by the communities surrounding each.

cellardweller · Apr 10, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappinessFilter

Reading all of the posts on this particular topic, i've noticed one major difference between a "PvP" individual, and a "PvE" individual. Sure they nerf our gimmicky crap that we used to rub out the easy wins, we complain for a bit, but we move on and look for other options to exhaust. While a PvE'er will sit there with the bar they have been using for 5+ months, and not know what to do.

Correction:
Smart pve players move on and adapt. Dumb pve players sit on their old bar, complaining and not knowing what to do before finding the next cookie cutter.
Smart pvp players move on and adapt. Dumb pvp players sit on their old bar, complaining and not knowing what to do before finding the next cookie cutter.

Personally I think Anet does a great job of balancing the two environments. The fact is that there are more pve players so the complaints seem louder when things are nerfed, simply by weight of numbers. The skill balances should (and thankfully do) tend to favour pvp players because that form of the game is about balance. By contrast whether it takes you 2 minutes or 3 minutes to kill a margonite group is ultimately trivial.

For every pvp update like the last one, there is at least one seasonal event or green drop weekend so I don't think that pve only players can complain about a lack of attention. I've heard PvP players complain that their HA updates were superceded by minipet updates, but what I feel that they are failing to acknowledge is the measured way in which PvP changes need to be made in order to maintain the balance that sets GW PvP above the those found in other MMO's.

And for the record I'm 95% PvE, and I love soul reaping update. My necro is actually fun to play again.

lennymon · Apr 10, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

You say "Guild Wars is both PvE and PvP", and then you compare balancing them to comparing apples and oranges.

Yes they are indeed two games. Not only is it seen and evident through the gameplay, it's easily noticeable by the communities surrounding each.

This is an example of an out of context quote, meaning: you can't balance in pve because you cant compare apples (players) to AI (oranges). If *the* game is out of balance it affects both PVE and PVP play negatively.
Communities are not the game, they develop organically on their own, no fault of the game itself (even if folks choose to blame teh Devs for everything). The people make GW 2 games, not GW. I'm not knocking how ANYONE wants to play, just pointing out that its one game, same skills, same 20th level cap, etc...

Personette · Apr 10, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

If you don't wanna play the whole game, hey it's cool do what you wanna do yer money you are wasting by not taking advantage of the other half of the game.

Hi, Lenny? This is called "knocking" how someone plays the game. It should be obvious, especially in the US of A with its almighty dollar, that telling someone they are throwing their money down the drain for any reason is a fairly grave insult. As though that wasn't enough, you doubled up the insult: you didn't just insult the PvE people, or the PvP people - you insulted both! Congratulations.

Also, you can't cry out of context in this case. You have now confirmed that you recognize that the game mechanics of PvP (human intelligence, sometimes) and PvE (AI intelligence, consistently) are fundamentally divergent.

Frankly, the original statement - that somehow the "best" GW isn't PvP or PvE is pretty meaningless. Nobody has suggested that GW would benefit by having one aspect of the game utterly demolished.

Thallandor · Apr 10, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Your Beliefs of who Anet listens to isnt important or relevant at all.

The most important thing is your game experience. If the game is no longer fun or frustrating to play, you find another one.

lennymon · Apr 10, 2007, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Personette

Hi, Lenny? This is called "knocking" how someone plays the game. It should be obvious, especially in the US of A with its almighty dollar, that telling someone they are throwing their money down the drain for any reason is a fairly grave insult. As though that wasn't enough, you doubled up the insult: you didn't just insult the PvE people, or the PvP people - you insulted both! Congratulations.

Also, you can't cry out of context in this case. You have now confirmed that you recognize that the game mechanics of PvP (human intelligence, sometimes) and PvE (AI intelligence, consistently) are fundamentally divergent.

Frankly, the original statement - that somehow the "best" GW isn't PvP or PvE is pretty meaningless. Nobody has suggested that GW would benefit by having one aspect of the game utterly demolished.

Never claimed one aspect was better (or 'best' as you mistakenly are quoting) just that its really one game, no matter how hard you wish to argue that there are 2 games, it's really not. My same main character plays any aspect of GW I choose to play. There are indeed divergent aspects within GW, but that doesn't make your argument, sorry.
My point about the money isn't an insult to anyone despite you trying to make it into one, sorry. If you get your money's worth out of only ever doing the Great Northern Wall Experience (tm) my opinion on what I think is 'fun' is meaningless to your dollar value. Yet again 2 different people playing 2 VERY different ways are *still* playing GW.
Your arguments are clearly (yet innefectively) attempting to convert me into yet another person who is going to go on an anti PVP or PVE crusade. I am not insulting 'PVE people' *or* 'PVP people' despite your arm waving. What I am saying is that this argument itself is degenerate, and you've helped prove my point.

jummeth · Apr 10, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

I would say balance updates are definitely for PvP, as many have said.

However, think about Storage upgrades, material upgrade, new explorable areas (remember SF was given as a free update), Mini pets, festival events.

Its just that somethings are PvP centric, others are very much PvE centred.

Please stop complaining, each seeks differing things.

Personette · Apr 10, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

They(Anet) want GW to be the best game they can make it, not pvp-gw or pve-gw.

This is the sentence where you used the word best. I think I re-read it a dozen times trying to figure out how it really relates to the rest of what you said and failed utterly. I'm guessing it's something along the lines of "The best GW is GW as it is now, with linked PvE and PvP" which is fair enough for an opinion.

I'm not making an argument for one side or the other. I just find it very irritating that you've decided that *your* mode of gameplay, which is both PvE and PvP, is superior and everyone who prefers one type or the other has an inferior mode of gameplay. You're doing exactly what you're sneering at everyone else for, so get off your high horse.

PS: do you know what the word degenerate means? Go look it up.

lennymon · Apr 10, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Lol, I didn't actually say how I play, it's immaterial, just that I can play whatever with the same character. My mode of gameplay *also*, as I've stated before has nothing to do with this argument being degenerate (yes I know how to use the word and what it means, are you sure you do?). Also if you take a single sentence away from the rest of course it will make less sense (that and well, I wrote it at 2am and may have left off some grammatical details). The point of the sentence for your inquiring mind is Anet isn't pandering to either self exiled camp, but making GW the best game they can, improving the game instead of stroking egos about who's is bigger.
I'm not claiming anything about my gameplay being superior, just that this argument is repetitiously redundant (I made this one up, feel free to bash me if it makes you feel better). The argument has devolved into a 2 camp *pewpewpew* match (<--definition of degenerate) with EVERYONE being wrong simply because the argument itself is idiotic.

HappinessFilter · Apr 10, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Dumb pvp players sit on their old bar, complaining and not knowing what to do before finding the next cookie cutter.

You find me someone like that, and ill show you someone i'd want to slap. People like that, if there are any, won't be PvPing anymore. If you don't comply with whats the new meta, you won't be seeing any playtime, be it GvG or HA.

I just find it hard to believe there would be someone still sitting on a spirit spam bar from the first 4 months of gw, trying to rehash the glory days. Then again, middle aged, over weight men watch football trying to relive the days of high school. I forgot what I was trying to say, let alone what I was trying to make a point about. How is everyone doing today?

samcobra · Apr 10, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

I like to troll forums too!

cellardweller · Apr 11, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappinessFilter

You find me someone like that, and ill show you someone i'd want to slap. People like that, if there are any, won't be PvPing anymore. If you don't comply with whats the new meta, you won't be seeing any playtime, be it GvG or HA.

Just look at anyone that went spirit spam->emosmite->iway->vimway->bloodspike and nothing in between. HA is full of them.

unienaule · Apr 11, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

If I had a nickel, or even a PENNY for every PvE vs PvP rant thread I've closed...