Curse

WildmouseX · Apr 12, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Bringing an MM is a tatic... it's a decission to fight by overpowering and seperateing the enemy, instead of makeing surgical strikes aginst an equeal enemy. one tatic isn't better then the other, it's all a mater of personal prefrence.

and like it was pointed out above, everyone plays it diferent. some bring the army, the guy above likes to use his as jihad bombers, and others use low lvl minnions that die easy to keep energy charged so they can cast other spells.

as long as a group is killing baddies, and compleates their missions/quests, then it's a good group.. and each group is going to do things their own way.

Carinae · Apr 12, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

MM + tactics = win

I don't know why a MM is outside the realm of tactics.

Yea, TY. I was getting grouchy preparing to say that myself.

strcpy · Apr 12, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

It doesn't have to be, but the fact is that minions are mindless, and even the best MM can't control what they do. How can you have tactics when your minions will follow a kiting priest into another group and aggro them? How can you have tactics when your minions wander a bit too far from the MM when running and trying to avoid a group of enemies nearby and end up aggroing said group? How can you have tactics when some minions have a delay of movement and linger behind long enough to aggro a wandering group behind you? It's too easy for a planned tactic to fail because of idiotic minion AI.

Your problems stem from not using the correct tactics with a MM. They can live through really bad tactics - either rushing and or trying surgical strikes and enemy avoidance - simply because of their power. However, if you treat them like the older hench and realize you must engage pretty much *every* group then things become much easier. Personally, I do not like playing a MM, I had one in the past but now use Olias if I want one. I like playing around with different builds, may or may not have him on a team.

As far as aggro management goes, you can rush in if the group is isolated - no problem there. If in a human group or with Olias flag them well back while you pull. If you are the MM and need to pull run ahead, fire your arrow and *immediately* run backwards (again, same tactic used in pulling with the old hench or an animal companion). It rarely fails and if you wait until the monk that normally runs is in the back of the group the minions will typically not target it (they tend to target the first ones they see when first engaging).

You also need to clear pretty much every group. For one thing they do tend to spread out and will gather aggro from behind and seem to have a bigger aggro bubble than you do. Plus the MM is better with a constant fresh stream of corpses, if you avoid very many fights you end up with fairly weak minions when you need them.

If what you wrote above is your main issue with them then you are playing a bad MM tactics wise. You still have aggro management, positioning, and all the other tactics one gets with other classes and it can add quite a bit to their effectiveness. It's just VERY different - like the hench you have to realize *they* are the weapon and you are simply guiding them. Anyone who has henched most (or all) of a protector title more than likely understands what I wrote above very well.

Quote:

MM is a safety net for many people. Why set up a tactic to let only the warrior take an aggro when they can have an army of undead taking some of the damage for them? It's just the mind set many of the average/casual players use. They don't have or want to spend the time overanalyzing things when most of the time a MM will suffice.

In this I agree. Any class plays MUCH better if you play them correctly (and that includes group dynamics - if the rest of the group needs to avoid combat then a MM is a *really* bad choice). But the MM is about the easiest to play, playing it bad still usually results in a win.

Quote:

Much of PvE is easy enough without planned tactics anyways

Yep, PvE is mostly just "do not screw up real bad" - as long as the party does that they tend to win.

ensoriki · Apr 12, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Mmmm

But MM's take away from other classes.

Which is the reason Sins,ritualist and Mesmers have no homes in a group.

People want the Nostalgic tank, the warrior.
They want the nostalgic nuke, the ele
They want the in every game class, the monk
And now they want something that tanks better than the warrior anyways but they still want a warrior, the MM
----------------

If you have a MM you don't really need a warrior once the mob is up and running, but since people feel that way ritualist,sin,ranger,mesmer, whatever aren't wanted, when those classes can "tactically" Serve better use in some missions.

Carinae · Apr 12, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Remember that they will follow your lead if they are not currently aggroed. Now typically MM's just wand the first target and let the minions attack whoever they want beyond that target. However, you CAN focus them on targets after they have aggroed....sorta.

If you want to pull them to a target, wand it, and keep wanding it. As your minions lose their current aggro (by killing the target or otherwise losing aggro) your wand hits will redirect them where you want. It's not perfect, sometimes it fails utterly, but MMs do usually have some degree of control over minions even in combat.

People give up when they wand a target and no minions re-aggro. You have to keep doing it because you never know when they'll lose aggro on their own....and you have just a split second to direct them before they find a target on their own.

FlameoutAlchemist · Apr 12, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

I've seen MMs get used both well and poorly.

MMs can be part of a well-balanced strat, in almost every place that you go. You may not be able to sustain a large undead army in the DoA, but you can minion-bomb with them. They can also be used to overwhlem, overpower, or distract the enemy. Every second that the enemy is beating the undead is another second that they're not focused on your team. This can buy your monks time to heal & recharge, your tank to pressure enemy casters, or in a worse-case scenario, to avoid a party wipe, escape combat.