Curse

Dax · Jun 22, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

I'm thinking they really should have limited what armor and weapon people could wear according to level (like most MMORPGs) from the git go. That seems to be the most problematic thing here. I don't think we'd be having this discussion if it were the case. Give people an inch and they'll take a mile.

Unfortunately I would think fixing things now would be pretty hard.

MaglorD · Jun 22, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

I'm thinking they really should have limited what armor and weapon people could wear according to level (like most MMORPGs) from the git go. That seems to be the most problematic thing here. I don't think we'd be having this discussion if it were the case. Give people an inch and they'll take a mile.

Unfortunately I would think fixing things now would be pretty hard.

Ya this is an obvious oversight on Anet's part. They did it for all the items that can be found but not for armor. While you can equip a powerful weapon, most likely you don't meet the requirements and so it reverts to a normal weapon. But they forgot all about armor....doh.

I don't think it's too late for them to introduce level requirements for armor. It was done for another rpg Sacred, so it can be done for GW. Would make all those Droknar's twinkers cry...

Point is the armor at Droknar's was meant to be used by ascended characters otherwise it should have been made available at the get-go in Ascalon City.

eA-Zaku · Jun 22, 2005, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Point is the armor at Droknar's was meant to be used by ascended characters otherwise it should have been made available at the get-go in Ascalon City.

Wrong. At least partially. While the MAIN (and perhaps only) purpose of the Droknar armor is for Ascended, it should NOT be available from the get-go. The low level people who get it from Droknar took the time and effort to traverse that Pass (WHICH ARENANET PUT THERE AND WHICH THEY CONNECTED TO DROKNAR'S FORGE) to get to the armor crafter. It is way different to go through that huge pass than to simply wander out of noob-land and poof you get nice max armor.

MaglorD · Jun 22, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by eA-Zaku

Wrong. At least partially. While the MAIN (and perhaps only) purpose of the Droknar armor is for Ascended, it should NOT be available from the get-go. The low level people who get it from Droknar took the time and effort to traverse that Pass (WHICH ARENANET PUT THERE AND WHICH THEY CONNECTED TO DROKNAR'S FORGE) to get to the armor crafter. It is way different to go through that huge pass than to simply wander out of noob-land and poof you get nice max armor.

Oh please, paying a warrior to taxi you from Beacon's Perch to Droknar's Forge takes no skill whatsoever.

eA-Zaku · Jun 22, 2005, 03:11 AM // 03:11

To have the money to pay for the help and also to afford the armor itself means you might as well have that armor. Only reason they even have the crappy armor is because for some people that's the best they can afford at that stage.

Show me a person who's never gotten past Beacon's Perch before, but has enough money to get a free ride to Droknar's as well as money/materials for the armor itself and I'll show you an eBayer/someone with good connections.

MaglorD · Jun 22, 2005, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by eA-Zaku

To have the money to pay for the help and also to afford the armor itself means you might as well have that armor. Only reason they even have the crappy armor is because for some people that's the best they can afford at that stage.

Show me a person who's never gotten past Beacon's Perch before, but has enough money to get a free ride to Droknar's as well as money/materials for the armor itself and I'll show you an eBayer/someone with good connections.

Don't worry, it's only a matter of time before this exploit gets patched. Anet will probably introduce level requirements on armor, because they have always said the game was about skill not twinkage. Allowing a low-level to acquire and use high-level armor, however the means he did it, is tantamount to gross twinkage and will have to be patched.

eA-Zaku · Jun 22, 2005, 03:18 AM // 03:18

To assume is to make an ass of you.

Really now, if it surely is going to be patched stop crying about it people. Level 10 arena is pointless anyways. If the majority of the people you met whooped you because of their godly Droknar's armor, then you might as well go get a set of your own, because obviously you're seeing it everywhere. If you can't beat them, join them. If you're not going to join them, please don't bitch about it.

MaglorD · Jun 22, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by eA-Zaku

To assume makes an ass of you.

LOL, when you run out of argument, resort to pretty insult. You're nothing more than a troll.

Aaaaagh · Jun 22, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

I see both sides of this argument...already done it, why do it again, and it shouldnt be allowed. I have to side with the 'it shouldnt be allowed' crowd though. What other game allows you to just skip a huge chuck of it because you have done it before? I cant think of a single one, Im sure there are some, but none of the other games I have played allow this. I consider it the price of restarting.

Were I a dev (Im not, Im too stoopid) I would place a HUGE wall, about 3/4 of the way from BP to Drok's. The wall would be a huge wall that looked alot like the Hollywood sign.. cept it would say "HA HA HA HA."

eA-Zaku · Jun 22, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Yeah I'd figure it'd come down to name calling if I didn't back up what I said so I have. Take a second look.

Can you tell me the reason why Lornar's even connects to Droknar's? It is to give un-Ascended people a chance to wear the best armor. Everyone knows Crystal Desert armor sucks. So even if someone is level 20 and not Ascended, he or she can still run the pass and get the level 20 requirement godly armor. This is still twinking, even if it's not as dramatic as the level 10's wearing Droknars.

If Arenanet wanted to add another Shiverpeaks area, they didn't have to make it connect to Beacon's Perch.

AeroLion · Jun 22, 2005, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaglorD

Don't worry, it's only a matter of time before this exploit gets patched. Anet will probably introduce level requirements on armor, because they have always said the game was about skill not twinkage. Allowing a low-level to acquire and use high-level armor, however the means he did it, is tantamount to gross twinkage and will have to be patched.

Then perhaps we should have level requirements on skills too because it isn't fair to have someone rushed to Fisherman's have skills that are above par with those in Ascalon. Oh and hey, the armor in Amnoon is way above par with what you can get in Ascalon so maybe we should nerf that too. Seriously, you're on a slippery slope here. I got rushed on my final character because I simply didn't want to put the time into the missions for an umpteenth time. If you think you only do those missions once or twice, then perhaps you might want to try helping out guild members sometime.

If you really want to prevent twinking and making the beginning arenas more newbie friendly, put an arena in pre-searing where it would be impossible for anyone to have EQ above anyone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

What other game allows you to just skip a huge chuck of it because you have done it before?

Any game with a new game+.

Dax · Jun 22, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by eA-Zaku

Wrong. At least partially. While the MAIN (and perhaps only) purpose of the Droknar armor is for Ascended, it should NOT be available from the get-go. The low level people who get it from Droknar took the time and effort to traverse that Pass (WHICH ARENANET PUT THERE AND WHICH THEY CONNECTED TO DROKNAR'S FORGE) to get to the armor crafter. It is way different to go through that huge pass than to simply wander out of noob-land and poof you get nice max armor.

I would compliment the ingenuity of players to find a way to get the armor, though I'm not always sure it's by design. If Anet truly wanted to let people know routes they wouldn't have blured it out on the map..would they?

I often ponder if the developer thought "We're going to make a game, take the restrictions and things out that people hate about MMOs, and people are going to play it the way we want"...not realising that it's those restrictions that keep games in check. Then I think they can't possibly be that naive

It's seems to me most most of the complaints of this game stem from either come from people who feel pvp is unfair, or high level items are over priced. Both these things would be solved, IMO, if there were some restrictions on what players can equip or go.

Look there are several different ways to play this game, the people who want to play the game by doing every quest, playing the story line, ect shouldn't feel like they are losing out or doing something wrong just because they don't want to skip ahead.

Mercury Angel · Jun 22, 2005, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Would you be able to tell the difference between a person run to Droknar's Forge and a person who crafted this right outside of Sanctum Cay?

And if not this, there's 51 AL armor, 45 AL armor, and 39 AL armor craftable as well, not including whatever there might be available through the collectors. It's not really that hard to take henchmen to travel ahead of a given area, especially with run buffs and healing. How much of an advantage does it take to become too much?

[Numbers above are based on 60 AL caster armor.]

eA-Zaku · Jun 22, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Dax, I agree with you. That is my point. Anet WANTED players to be able to wear that armor even if they didn't Ascend. At least, that is what it looks like. However, I do not think the problem would be that people took it to PvP and owned everyone with it. I'm sure they might have thought "well...if they get owned in PvP they can go get their own set of Droknar's armor"

Mercury Angel, it is actually faster to get to Droknar's Forge than to get to Sanctum Cay. Also, the Forge armor is better (even if it's slightly) so...why not?

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 22, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

You know what I did today? Just to piss all you guys off I rushed a Guildie to Amnoon Oasis. You know what his level is? 7. Yep I RAN all the way from Ascalon. Took me about 2 hours to do it too. Guess what character I used. My lvl 15 Monk. I had a great time doing it too. I considered it more of a challenege than the quests/missions plus I got to see some nice country side. Sort of like a Sunday drive.

Do you know what this is called? Steamlining. I have found a more efficient way of doing something. My first character I spent 150 hours getting her to ascend, I now have an effective process that I will be able to make a lvl 20 PvE character in a weekend. You want to call people like me that do this HAXORS and CHEATERS and you want the programmers to make drastic changes to the game to prevent this.

Why don't you go burn a bunch of books you Nazi's?

We are not hackers, cheats we are forward thinkers not afraid to do something outside the norm and go against the flow. At sometime somewhere some guy had the desire to run Lornars. Imagine how much trail and error he went thru to discover the way to do it. He put the right build together and did it. Word got out, and more and more people started doing it. This first guy that did this has more originality and dedication to the game than most people that play. I wonder how long it took him his first time? You know that Draknors is about 3-4 hours of play if you fight your way thru? It takes 30-45 minutes to run. How can you people say you detest this while you eat your McDonalds hamburger made in under 30 seconds?

Go ahead and put a level cap on Armor, I will rush my toon to Temple of Ages and do a couple of 5K and 10K fissure/UW runs and have a lvl 20 in a day, then rush them to Droknars and buy the armor.

Quote:

The thing is, this makes people like me that play through the entire game fairly feel cheated. I've spent nearly 130 hours getting Ryoushi to where he is now at Thunderhead Keep, and yet some noob can get there in under half the time because he has lots of money to pay a runner?

This low level arena bashing is not occuring. Did the author of this post say this happened to him? It is a rumour brought on by jealous people. Read it above. He spent 130 hours and someone else did it faster. He says that it is not fair. I read envy in the line "because he has lots of money to pay a runner", and you guys placate to him. Saying don't feel bad we are all winners here, everybody in the class gets a gold star. Reality check people,
we are not all created equal. People are going to do things better than you, just because they do does not give you to right to cry foul, lets change the rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaPe

Ok, let's see, someone joins your guild and want money for armor he/she shouldn't even *see* not to mention wear. That would be... annoying. Sure people support one another, but for items at their level. So, if I want "Max DMG Sword with l33t Stats, 100k" does it mean guild should give me money? Definately not.

You know what if I had the resources to buy Draknors Armor and 100K weapons for each member of my guild I would, and I would have it waiting for them as soon as they reached post-searing. I do not though, so I do what I can. I happily give a guildie 1K here a couple of steel ingots there. You know why? That generosity pays itself back 10 fold. Had a guild member that when we started out I gave him all the charr hides I could, so he could make some fur squares, and guess what we were just sitting around BSing and he was like "you know what your armor would look really cool black", and he gave me black dye. So what did I essentially do? If you break it down I traded a couple of fur squares for some black dye. Go spam that in the trade channels and see if you get that deal.

A group of people working as a team is stronger than a bunch of individuals.

eA-Zaku · Jun 22, 2005, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Haha kungfumonkey2, great post and great screenname.

Quote:

You know what I did today? Just to piss all you guys off I rushed a Guildie to Amnoon Oasis.

Yeah, it does piss me off. Because you didn't rush ME instead.

PS I would like to join your clan

Anyways, yeah. It is a problem, yes. But I see nothing stopping people from getting their own set of Droknar's armor for their level 10's.

Mercury Angel · Jun 22, 2005, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by eA-Zaku

Mercury Angel, it is actually faster to get to Droknar's Forge than to get to Sanctum Cay. Also, the Forge armor is better (even if it's slightly) so...why not?

Was just making the "If not _____, then ____" point. If you take away the means to get the Forge armor, people will just get the next best thing. And if not that, so on and so forth.

That, and assuming someone ran to the forge when the difference between sanctum cay armor and droknar's is so negligable, and they may very well NOT have the forge armor would be a blunder on the part of the person making the assumption.

eA-Zaku · Jun 22, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Yeah, you're right. And for that reason, level restrictions will have to be put on all armor. And this, in turn, pretty much ruins the game for those who don't play in the "orthodox" storyline method. Even those who are a few levels behind of their area (like a level 15 in a level 17 area) will be penalized by the armor restrictions.

Dax · Jun 22, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by eA-Zaku

Dax, I agree with you. That is my point. Anet WANTED players to be able to wear that armor even if they didn't Ascend. At least, that is what it looks like. However, I do not think the problem would be that people took it to PvP and owned everyone with it. I'm sure they might have thought "well...if they get owned in PvP they can go get their own set of Droknar's armor"

Ah yea I get what you're sayin'. Though I'm not sure I agree they really wanted people run and grab the armor that early. If so it was a mistake because, while it does make people happy early in the game, it create alot of friction with poeple who want to follow the path through the story line and think of it as part of the endgame.

That's just my opinion though, maybe they did or don't care if they do. It's not too hard.

Kishin · Jun 22, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Lornar's Pass connects Beacon's Perch and Droknar's Forge for a reason.
Now, its obviously not for Ascended characters to get to Droknar's, because they can warp there. So honestly, why else is it there?

Secondly, its been said time and time again. Show me someone with their first character who can be rushed to Droknar's and afford not only 1.5K per piece of armor, but also the cost in materials for that armor. Maybe if I had saved every scrap of money and ran around in Pre-searing armor all the way up to Maguuma, sure. 99% of people who rush Lornar's are people on their second/third/fourth/kabillionth character who don't want to repeat the same content over and over again, or at the very least, make it less aggravating on top of repetitious.

And level restrictions on armor? Great, now people who want to move through the game quickly have to grind exp to wear armor to stay alive. On top of that, we already have a fixed distribution of skills at various outposts which forces people to play within at times narrowly defined paramaters (Ever wondered why for the first half of the game, every Ele is a pyromancer?)
so, let's reduce choice and playstyle even more. Its like writing up a big codified rulebook for the exact manner in which people are to play the PvE and punishing those who fail to abide by it.

I would lose a lot of faith in ANet if they patched armor in that way, or cut Beacon's off from Droknar's.