Curse

Owen · Aug 11, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Just a note to Ipillo Wupwup, i'm glad you had fun and all but I think the general concensus here is that people don't like when guys rush to Droknar's for the armor and skills and then return to dominate the lo level PvP arenas.

I don't run, I don't like running, but if people want to run then more power to them. The game is about having your own experience so go for whatever toots your horn. I am enjoying running 4 PvE characters through the game all at once with one slight leader (W/Mo at Ring of Fire) and one straggler (Mo/Me at Beacons), some people wouldprobably find that tedious but i'm enjoying it.

As I said, to each his own, but as soon as your own brand of fun starts effecting mine then we have a problem (like it does with DK armor and Elites in Ascalon Arena). Otherwise do whatever you want and their will always be someone who doesn't like it... but that's life.

Krank · Aug 11, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

Diablo 2 was the first place i saw concerted power leveling. You fail for being totally wrong.

You obviously havent played everquest

twinkers are rampant, in fact my father is one O_o so ... yea!

trelloskilos · Aug 11, 2005, 10:43 AM // 10:43

K - let's be diplomatic for a moment...

On the one hand, there is the majority who seem opposed to letting people do runs to Droknars because a) They might be scammed, b) It defeats the objective of the game - Their solution is to block Lomar's pass

On the other hand, there are several playing through PvE for a second time, and would rather just get to the southern Shiverpeaks than waste time going through the game.

There are 3rd and 4th groups (People who went to Southern Shiverpeaks the hard way suddenly finding themselves surrounded by Lvl 8 characters looking for a group and the actual runners themselves)

Here's my proposal:

A bridge in Lomar's pass, that has a lever surrounded by very tough mobs. This way, Lomars is still accessable, only a team (as opposed to just a runner), or a brutally tough and skilled runner, would be able to access it.

The upshot of this is that Droknars is still accessable, but people wanting to get there must all contribute and not just pay and sit back. It provides a decent challenge, and means that extremely low levels have very little chance.

Otherwise, I'm personally in favour of walling up Lomars, but if you're a runner who gets your kicks from repeating the same route over and over again, then don't let me stop your fun....and you're still much higer up in my personal regard than those who get their gold from Ebay!

Damon Windwalker · Aug 11, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Ya know - it seems like the majority of the people complaining about Droknor's runners are complaining about low level characters trying to survive in the higher level missions -OR- low level characters taking the droknor's armor back to low-level PvP arenas.

I can understand an dagree with those gripes.

However, what about us who play PvE almost exclusively, and just went to Droknor's to get our armor, then came back to Beacon's and continued the game progression normally from there?

Red Sonya · Aug 11, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwh6913

yeah In D@ i couild get to lvl 30ish within 2 days easy

And in GW's I can get to Droknars in less than a couple of hours. So Diablo 2 is still better at least it took you 2 days. lol

Powerleveling is a completely different topic. If you have the required attributes to use the weapons/armor great, but, to have those required attributes you'll be about level 16 which is my point for Ascalon/Yaks Bend arenas. I'm not calling for any restrictions to how people play the PVE game, if they wanna rush fine, rush, but, when it comes to the lower level Arenas, then there needs to be armor restrictions or restrictions to Droknars to a certain level and/or be ascended. If there wasn't any faction to be had in the lower level arenas I wouldn't even care about balance there, but, since there is "faction gain" and overpowered players do affect others with their rushing, then it needs to be nerfed.

Orochim4ru · Aug 11, 2005, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Powerleveling is a completely different topic.

Using scrolls while a monk farmer plows the ice trolls, avicara and giants outside of droknar's is an easy way to get your level 2 rushed character to level 20.

mikeydavison · Aug 11, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

I've been through the game twice from beginning to end and have nearly completely unlocked 4 skill trees (W, N, Me, Mo). I decided that I wanted my third time through to go as quick as possible, so I got a free run to Droknars so I could load up on armour and skills. I've never once gone into the low level arenas to beat up newbs, and in fact I've been quite helpful on the missions and quests I've done since my run.

Can anyone explain precisely how this negatively impacts them? I want to play the game on my own terms, and I'm not hurting anyone doing it, I just don't see a valid argument against allowing runs. The low level arenas can easily be fixed without forcing people to play parts of the game that they just don't want to play again.

Mithie · Aug 11, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

And in GW's I can get to Droknars in less than a couple of hours. So Diablo 2 is still better at least it took you 2 days. lol

No. My sorc in D2 can get your level 1 character to Patriarch status in a little over an hour.

And LIKE in diablo 2: if you want to skip the game becaue this is your umpteenth time through, hey, don't let me stop you. Just don't do anything stupid like going in low level arenas.

ExDeity · Aug 11, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

I believe it will be nerfed as well. Then for MY FUN, I can't wait to come back here and put it in the face of all those "leets" that have posted in this thread giving rediculous stupid reasons why it should remain the same.

As I recall playing DIABLO 2 either online or offline, one didn't nor could start out with "leet" gear, had to have skill points into certain catagories to be able to wear/use all of the leet armors/items/weapons and that's the way it should be in GW's as well. I don't care how many characters you play, you shouldn't be able to wear/use leet items/gear until a certain required level.

So come on A-Net/Devs bring the FUN of Diablo 2 into this game. As it is now, it's not much fun playing in Ascalon/Yak's Bend arenas without having to resort to playing like the runners do and running to get our own leet armor. I want balanced arenas without having to run to get to that point.

My suggestion though is to just remove the door from Beacons Perch to Lornars Pass. Put in a Mission from Thunderhead Keep to Droknars instead and require the character to be ascended. That'll fix that.

Yes, because what annoys one gamer is obviously a greater evil for ALL GAMERS.

There is such a thing as a dissenting opinion, and I'm sorry but, unless there is some sort of actual problem with playing a Drok runner who took the strategic advantage in getting his armor before heading to the PvP arena in Shiverpeak (or Ascalon, in rare occasions), then I'm afraid your complaints aren't going to be dealt with by the Devs.

Let's think about it for a moment, shall we? A player realized there is a shortcut on this game, by taking an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT route in the form of Beacon's Perch to Droknar's Forge. A player who has already completed this game decides to take this route, and saves himself HOURS of time running through the same, now-boring missions he completed with a previous character.

Something you need to understand is that PvP was not designed to be extremely competitive until you are at Level 20, and have allowed yourself to be on a level-playing field with the other Level 20's who are there with you. Starting with the Krytan arena, things start to get serious. If you are playing PvP at Shiverpeaks, which is widely-considered to be an arena that boasts much less of a challenge than the Level 20 arenas, then you really have no right to bitch at Drok runners. And, by the way, most Drok runners aren't players that decide to use their armor for PvP only. Sure, it's easy faction, but it isn't ALOT of faction, because true faction farming can't occur until the team or random arenas, while their armor is already the same as everyone else's.

I got my character ran to Drok's before, and I'm grateful for such an option to skip the boring missions on this game before getting some nice armor, and making it easier for myself to run through them later on. I can say that, after already completing the game once, I have EARNED the right to bypass a few missions when I try to run through the game again.

If you remove the option to be ran to Drok's, and keep experienced players willing to make more PvE characters to keep the games fresh and exciting, then you will most likely see many older players get bored with the game, because at that point, it would cater far too much to the noobs and not enough to the pros.

Just my two cents.

Dax · Aug 11, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavrik

Wow... did you think on that before you said it? Maybe I'm the ONLY one who's lv18 E/Mo who I had gotten to Sanctum Cay... got rushed to Droknar by a guild leader so I could buy armor... actually farmed the materials for it myself? I've found a rare item indeed, me. I have multiple characters, the other 3 being so far behind they can't even farm. I farmed with my E/Mo, lv'd to 20 and have gained skill points since then, I farmed for droknar armor and then farmed all the materials needed to then get 15k armor. I've now been farming with my E/Mo and salvaging everything as I did before to get materials needed for my Ranger who I just got to droknar for armor.

As I see it since I don't PvP and I salvage/farm/sell a lot, being taken down the route from beacon to droknar is not going to effect the economy and certainly not all your ownage or lack of in the PvP battle areas.

Yes I did. Not sure what your point is in reference to my point.

Red Sonya · Aug 11, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I find it funny how ignorant people try to rationalize that the lower level PVP arenas weren't meant for anything, weren't meant to have fun, weren't meant to be fair, weren't meant for the socalled PROS's lol. It truely shows your ignorance. Having worked with developers for SSI back in the good ole days of RPGs I know they don't build a game around imbalance or making sure a large majority of their fan base don't enjoy something. And when designing a game they are not keen on if the player becomes bored with the game because they have already finished it once because they don't want them playing that one game forever, they want them to buy the "next one" that comes out. This is not a monthly fee game, so whether you grow bored or not is not a concern of A-Net. A-Net and especially Gaile have announced that they are interested in what we have to say. Therefore with all the many and majority of posts in favor of "change of this ability to reach Dorknars and Droknars armor in low level arenas I certainly look for change in this, I don't look for them not to change it because some socalled PROS would be bored. lol

So your growing bored of the game excuses are rather boring in and of themselves. If you've grown bored of the game we don't care. A-Net doesn't care, they got your money already, and they'll get your money again when the next chapter comes out because if you grow bored so fast and so easily you'll have to purchase it because you'll already be bored of everything else as well. The noob is truely the person who can't enjoy anything more than once, who can't be patient, who can't continue to play the game as it was intended instead of using loopholes to bypass the mechanics of the game. I wouldn't give a hoot if the individual could make the run themselves, now you socalled bored people and socalled PROS, looks to me like the boredom would be taken away if you made the run yourselves instead of having "other people play the game for you". No wonder you are bored, you can't do anything own your own. You're probably a boring person in life as well. Have no friends and suked your thumb as a baby.

Dax · Aug 11, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarot Ribos

This is probably the most logical thing I've heard in this thread. Why would the game developers have put that trail there and not expect people to use it?

I swear, I just don't know where people are lost on this.

Ok, one last time.....
Of course people lvl20 can run through this area. THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM
The problem is low level people do not run they die, and the runner rezzes them when he passes through each area. If a group of lowbies can make it through by themselves without a high level person more power to them. I don't think the developers intended that.

And I'm sure the developers intended for people to skip over all the armor sets too, so they can be finished in a month.

bobrath · Aug 11, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Drok running isn't the problem. Its the elite skills and drok's armor appearing in the the Yak's and Ascalon arenas.

The instanced nature of Guildwars means that if someone wants to go out and get all the best skills and armor and then take down glint... good for them. I can still go attempt Glint on my own any time I want to. So aside from a modicum of jealousy over another player not having to spend tons of hours to quest and walk through the jungle and desert to get to the forge, there's just no good reason for a PvEr to be uptight.

Lets look at PvP... Suddenly your better armor and skills give you a decided advantage over those that are moving through the game in the storyboarded order. I can't believe that any Anet employee could honestly state that they planned on having Poison Arrow be used in the Ascalon arena.

Forget level requirements on armor, forget blocking off the pass. Just lock players out of Ascalon once they reach Yak's (you can't walk around it). Then lock players out of Yak's when they reach Rankor or Lion's Arch. Easy solution that still allows 3rd, 4th, and later chars to get the better armor and skills for PvE but keeps the PvP scene "clean" and balanced.

If someone wants to spend 5k to watch another person play... go for it. Just don't bring that level 7 char back to Ascalon Arena and claim your a pwning newbs.

Tarot Ribos · Aug 11, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

I swear, I just don't know where people are lost on this.

Ok, one last time.....
Of course people lvl20 can run through this area. THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM
The problem is low level people do not run they die, and the runner rezzes them when he passes through each area. If a group of lowbies can make it through by themselves without a high level person more power to them. I don't think the developers intended that.

And I'm sure the developers intended for people to skip over all the armor sets too, so they can be finished in a month.

...And you don't think the ANet people thought of the whole rez thing when they built that passage to the Forge? In fact, why would that passage be there, if not for runners? Such a long and complex route from a rather early part of the game to the much-later part... that was not an accident. They put it there for a reason. And that reason certainly isn't travel, when you can just click, click, click, and suddenly you're back at Beacon's Perch.

I agree on the issue of the Ascalon Arena and Yak's Bend arena... it is indeed unfair for people with Forge armor to use those arenas. Putting Armor caps on those arenas would probably be the best solution. Or as bobrath says, lock progressed players out of earlier arenas.

And the arena issue is the only logical argument I've seen against the Droknar's forge running path. It takes away from the PvE enjoyment? And why do you think you know what makes other people happy?

Dax · Aug 11, 2005, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarot Ribos

...And you don't think the ANet people thought of the whole rez thing when they built that passage to the Forge? In fact, why would that passage be there, if not for runners? Such a long and complex route from a rather early part of the game to the much-later part... that was not an accident. They put it there for a reason. And that reason certainly isn't travel, when you can just click, click, click, and suddenly you're back at Beacon's Perch.

Nope. I think they intended it for people of the appropriate level, but I think passing low level people there is a exploit. If I were to guess why they haven't fixed it is it a part of the game machanics, not just specific to that area. And it makes people who whine about having to work too hard happy for the time being.... I know a bit about game company politics. Dying, and rezzing through requires no skill except for the runner, and I find it hard to belive that that was thier original intention.

If they had intended it to be that way they could have easily made that the only armor to get with in let's say the 7-20 range.

Like I said if you can get a party of lowbies with no one lvl 20 to pass through
then I will agree.

Ipillo Wupwup · Aug 12, 2005, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen

Just a note to Ipillo Wupwup, i'm glad you had fun and all but I think the general concensus here is that people don't like when guys rush to Droknar's for the armor and skills and then return to dominate the lo level PvP arenas.

Did you even read what i wrote?

Quote:

Did it ruin your gameplay experience? No - because you never invited my low level characters into your party (which probably would've been better than sticking to players who need 7 tries for every mission...). I also never fought in that freakin' Ascalon Arena - PvP with less than 200 Attribute Points is a bad joke...

I never ever fought PvP otherwise than as a level 20 player in L.A. Competion Arenas, Team Arenas or Tombs... I don't like playing PvP with a character that isn't at it's full potential...
But I think it might be useless to try to talk to you guys who always want to stigmatize runners or people who hire runners

SOT · Aug 13, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

I have no problem with runners or players being run but I do have a big problem with people going back to low level arena's with characters in Droknar's armor.

That's the idea, in effect. Strategy. Tactics. Planning Ahead. Although I agree with you that it is utterly reprehensible for that to occur in that particular venue of slaughter, I have to be honest when I say that I have no issue with people getting to droknar's without a runner, and being lowe rin level than the 20's. I have done it, so I know for a fact it CAN be done. The problem lies in lazy-bones mentality. They think to themselves:

"Hmm, I can pay this moron 3k to run me to droknar's, grab my gold out of storage that YoyoMatsumiko bought on ebay, and come back and own."

Problem is, my level 20 w/elem is 20, ascended AND wearing that armor, and I still get my ass handed to me when outside town. So in the long run, they basically bought a nice facelift, but if they cannot EARN it the proper way (run themselves or get there by valid, equal measur epartying up), then the are not learning how to function optimally WITHIN that suit of OMG GOD'S ANUS CAKE Armor. They will die. They will have the ability to take on ALL the char in althea's ashes mission by sheer mathematical differences in that armor, but when it comes to living, thinking, breathing opponents, they CANNOT succeed as a midget Rambo. Simply makes them look stupid

Hysteria · Aug 13, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12

IMO this one boss name that was chosen as a Grand prize winner reflects they're views on the subject, Tarnok Forgerunner. Now you tell me

fastfooder · Aug 13, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

I Hate All These Noobs That Run To Forge They Get Armor Early Duel In Shiverpeak Arena And Own Everyone

Avenge Death · Aug 13, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

theres many other ways to get down to the forge at a low lvl. just get ran all the way from ascalon to sanctum cay. its easy.