Originally Posted by The Ernada

And I say again. How does that make me a troll? My reference to PVE players was that I was saying that I wasnt surprised that it was PVE players making suggestions to limit PVP play. So tell me again how I was flaming?

And your theory about limiting professions still doesnt make sense. It would not limit the number of skills that would need balance. If a skill is overpowered then it needs balancing.

Overpowered builds revolve from overpowered skills and so you have teams built with them in mind. It's not the other way around. It's not like those skills are suddenly overpowered because there are a few copies in a team.

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

I wasn't aware of the fact that this game was specifically meant to be played with balanced teams. If a team wants to have 3 monks for heal/prot and 4th for a smiter, they should be able to do it. The skill balances are what will keep a team of 3+ of any 1 profession from being an overpowering team, balanced or not.

The overpowerment is not necessarily in the fact that a team is made up of entirely 1 profession. It lies in the broken skills (or in this case, SR). A balanced group can be just as powerful as a group of all of one profession.

Let's take a rainbow spike, for example. Assume there'll be 2-3 monks for the heal/prot so that leaves us 5-6 people of various other professions with which to coordinate a spike. All of those people will have one skill with which to spike with, probably a second skill to follow up with if need be.

If the people are all on Vent together, someone is calling correctly, they have enough damage for the spike and people don't suck, their spike won't necessarily be more or less powerful than a group of 5-6 spiking paragon, or rits, or eles.

What you're suggesting would not hinder gimmick builds. Period. It would change them, that's it. As soon as Anet destroys one gimmick, another will pop up. That's why constant skill balances are absolutely necessary. I absolutely guarantee you that if Anet were to limit 3 of one profession to a single party there would be just as many gimmick builds as there were before. Thus, the only thing that would be achieved, is limiting the players.

From reading your posts, I have a feeling that you don't do PvP much, if at all. If you did, you would understand what I'm saying.

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

By the way, hender is not a word.

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

Simply calling him a troll does not make him one. Just because he posted something like that does not mean he was intentionally trying to provoke. It means he was posting what he felt. He might have been trying to provoke, he might also have been geniune.

He also has a point. If you read through all of these threads, you'll find many, many people speaking completely from the PvE point of view. Not only that, but stating that they don't care what happens to PvP, as long as it doesn't ruin their precious PvE.

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

Just because you didn't see them doesn't mean they didn't exist. I know quite a large number of people that had and still have all of the gear for 55 necroing, and still do it on occasion.

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

The whole point is that this is the 9.7 millionth thread on the topic. There is one thread devoted specifically to it. There have been countless suggestions made for Anet in that thread. Another one is not necessary. It's redundant, annoying, and does not accomplish anything.

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

I'm sorry you continually fail to grasp the point.

The entire point is that the AI CANNOT COMPLAIN. If something is overpowered in PvE, there is nobody to complain about it. That's why "I don't remember ever seeing anyone complain about it being over powered in PvE before" is not a valid argument. Because there is nobody to complain.

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

I guarantee you, nothing but skill balances will help deal with gimmicks. Whether it's a balanced team, a rainbow sort of spike, or a team with 8 of one single profession, there will always be gimmick builds. Why? Because people want easy fame/rank and people will use them because that's what works. If there's overpowered skills, no matter the profession or abundance of that profession in the party, they will still be overpowered unless the skills themselves are changed. All you will achieve by limiting the number of a single profession would be to further limit people.

I'm not sure when "having a different opinion" became "trolling", but okay. If you say so.

I guess you missed the memo about 55 necros?

I don't think that was trolling, nor was it a flame. Do you have an affinity for those words or something? I think it was a legitimate question and it's not derailing the topic, really, as it is in direct response to part of why Gaile has said that SR was nerfed in the first place. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.

Really, if something is overpowered in PvE, who complains? To suggest that the other classes will complain about it is, frankly, a bit ridiculous. I don't exactly agree that it was powerful for PvE, because it's PvE, for god's sake but assuming for a second it was, there's no reason for other players to complain, as suggested, because what someone else is doing isn't hurting your gameplay. Who's left to complain, but the AI? We all know they can't complain.

Originally Posted by Alderin

Yet PvP players want to limit PvE because they feel something is over powered in PvE? Besides with how the game is, the change would be for both PvP and PvE. As for you being a troll you have only berated PvE players in this thread and the Soul Reaping one.

Originally Posted by Alderin

Yet some skills are over powered because multiple primary professions use them. Is that not the primary reason "Incomming" was hit? I've been out of the loop on the Paragon bit so do correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Originally Posted by Alderin

Yet the skill balances nor the Soul Reaping nerf has done much of anything to Necro/Rits aside from teaching them how to count to 5. As for the balanced group being capable of being just as if not more powerful I fully agree with you but the balanced one takes more skill, correct? Isn't this game supposed to be the Player Skill over the Skill Bar? Oh, as a side note that is a bit off topic, I truely would love to see a smiting monk in PvP. Not the all monks using maintained enchantments on each other while using "Signet of Mystic Wrath."

Originally Posted by Alderin

But 'hinder' is a word. I wasn't aware spelling errors were forbidden.

Originally Posted by Alderin

As for the first part, I would be inclided to go along with that if not for the majority fo his/her posts in the Soul Reaping topic.
As for the second part, what about the PvP that dont' care about PvE as long as it doesn't ruin their PvP enjoyment? Many people are in speaking from a PvE point of view because the Soul Reaping nerf wasn't good for PvE and it appearantly didn't stop the Spirit Spammers in PvP either.

Originally Posted by Alderin

What is redundant, annoying, and does not accomplish anything is going through this tango with the same people would aren't trying to come up with helpful suggestions but rather prefer to try and berate people. Look at the Soul Reaping thread and you see people arguing about anything but what it is there for now. Look at what this one turned into. This thread wasn't just about Soul Reaping either but about Spirits and Ritualists' Spawning Powers.

Originally Posted by Alderin

I'm sorry you continue to fail to grasp the concept. It does not matter if they can or not, why would they complain about the necro when some have necro's with them and OTHER professions are wipping them out more than anything.
The whole thing of "AI CANNOT COMPLAIN" is not a valid argument either as other professions are soloing them or duo farming them more commonly. You see Monk/Warrior and Monk/Mesmer farmers more than anything else. Does anyone complain? How was the Soul Reaping messing up others in PvE before the nerf? Arena Net supposedly players their own game so why wasn't Soul Reaping fixed in the two+ years it's been around? Thing is, Mo/W and Mo/Me slaughters more AI than a necro so the "AI CANNOT COMPLAIN" when talking about the Necro is kinda moot isn't it?

Originally Posted by creelie

A 3-per-team limit would have saved the Paragon. =(

Originally Posted by milkflopance

Gaile has said that Soul Reaping wasn't just changed because of abuse in PvP, but also because of it being overpowered in the first place.

Soul Reaping has been dealt with, and still remains as one of the more powerful primary attributes. All it requires now is that the player manages their energy better.