Curse

Urban_Nomad · Apr 15, 2007, 05:38 AM // 05:38

I'd love to see some places in Ascalon packed with level 20 mobs. Flamte Temple Corridor FTW.

http://RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO?Selden

Bryant Again · Apr 15, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Whoa woot! Gaile announcement!

Next week, eh? /fingerscrossed

Master Ketsu · Apr 15, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

If you complete the game with a monk, why should you be allowed into hard mode as a warrior? You could be a good monk but a terrible warrior.

You can complete PvE a thousand times over with all characters and still suck. Pve is easy.

penguinious · Apr 16, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Seriously, please do not let hard mode be like DoA. Make it more like fighting an semi-decent PvP team.

IWAY Afflicted... B/P Charr...Blood Spike Skales...ZB Margonite Priests...SF Spam Imps...BoA Oni...

For example, an average Skale Blighter skill bar in hard mode-
Spoil Victor (E)
Life Siphon
Faintheartedness
Well of Blood
Parasitic Bond
Signet of Lost Souls

It will unload Spoil Victor on a high health target, and then proceed to apply -7 degeneration to as many foes as possible while using well of blood whenever a corpse appears. Signet of Lost Souls will be used effectively.

An average Charr Axe Fiend-
Flail
Enraging Rush
Eviscerate (E)
Executioner Strike
Agonizing Chop
Lion's Comfort

This axe fiend will actually behave like a PvP'er, charging adrenaline with ER and flail, and then choosing an unenchanted low AL target and unleashing Evisc>Exec>Agonizing Chop.

An average Lava Imp-
Searing Flames (E)
Glowing Gaze
Liquid Flame
Meteor Shower
Glyph of Sacrifice
Fire Attunement

This would make people think twice about fighting imps- It will spam SF, GG, LF, and then use GoS + MS against a tightly clumped group of targets.

About levels- I want them to be lowered. Yes. Lowered. I CERTAINLY would not want to fight a group of level 29 Bladed Aatxes that auto-targets unenchanted squishies, and has an IAS with an Adrenaline Spike Chain. Or a group of level 28 Oni with like 25 dagger mastery with a BoA (Flurry, since BoA Nerf) Sin's Build.

To Sum up what hard mode should be-

Increased Monster AI (Breaks Aggro From Tanks and Autotargets enchanted squishies- Monks/Casters run from melee...Chooses perfect times for skills, such as nuking clumped groups)

Better SkillBars- Let the mob's skillbars work together and be much more effective, somewhat like a PvP team. Increase high damage AoE skills on monsters, and make monster monks somewhat near the level of human monks in skills and usage.

Lowered Levels, or Less- With these insane AI boosts and skill usage, monsters SHOULD NOT come in huge swarms of level 28's. That would make "HARD" mode into "IMPOSSIBLE" Mode.

What hard mode SHOULD NOT BE-

-Hordes and Hordes of Level 28's using Hax0r Ub3r Pwnage Skills, but with the AI of a braindead rat. (Cough Cough* Enraged.)

A perfect example of what Hard Mode should somewhat be like- Remember those level 20 Jade Brotherhood Gangs in Kaineng that seemed to always own you? Remember how they probably wiped your party more than all the mobs in Echovald and Jade Sea combined?

That was because they had an excellent skill set, with armor buffs, huge AoE damage, hex removal, interrupts, and KD's. The Knights had high armor, and used Watch Yourself!, Cyclone Axe, Tripe Chop, and Furious Axe. The Mages used Dragon Stomp, stringing a chain of constant Knockdowns, Wards, and Double Dragon for high AoE spike damage. The mesmers had Expel Hexes, and 2 interrupts. The ritualists were effective healers, and used Ancestors Rage (Another High AoE damage skill) on your party. These puny level 20's made me a lot more scared a lot of level 28 mobs.

This is what all of hard mode should be like.

nugzta · Apr 16, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

^^^ Pretty much what Im hoping. Dont forget res sig on the monsters to add bit of annoyance :P (unless you have ranger or mesmer in your team. Yay for team diversity, boo to holy trinity)

angmar_nite · Apr 16, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Yup. Even the rumor of the jade brotherhood made people pay for kaineng run. However, I found others such as the wardens or naga later on in the game laughable. Shiroken were crushed easily because the monks focused on using spell shield and spell breaker on themselves half the time rather than heal.

Deathless Fate · Apr 16, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

I believe unlocking hard mode requires beating the campaign, not getting protector title

Plague · Apr 16, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Problems with tacking on requirements for Hard Mode:

Requirements for hard mode essentially ask the question, "Are you prepared for this?" Are all people that have Protector titles ready for hard mode? No. I'd hope not. What about everyone that has beaten the game ten times? No. What about... "X?" No. Despite any attempts by we, the players, to weed out those of us that we find too low of intelligence to be allowed to participate, there is no equivilent to an IQ test in Guild Wars. Reaching milestones is not the answer. Also consider that in order to bring your Ele, Monk, Necro, etc. to Hard Mode using a Protector title will require you to have masters on every mission with that character. So if you suddenly, at a whim, wish to bring your Necro over, and he has yet to beat every mission at that degree, you won't want to spend the next week "training him up" to be qualified. The cold reality is that requirements will be simple, and low. And that is the fairest way to do it.

Thoughts on Hard Mode's means of progression:

It would make sense, in many respects, that hard mode will begin the game over in some fashion. After all, inevitably, people will find one area with better drops than another area. Would it be fair to allow players to immediately warp to that area and play that hard mode zone exclusively? Or to allow players to skip missions they find too difficult or unrewarding? I suspect that in order to play Hard Mode at say, Droknar Forge, you may likely be required to "unlock" all areas before that location in the storyline. Essentially, if you decide that you hate Maguuma (I do) and want to skip the area in favor of the Shiverpeaks, I can, but I won't be able to play on hard mode until I get through Maguuma. This may also act as that requirement that everyone clamors for: players incapable of playing "with the big dogs" will find themselves at Ascalon City, unable to advance due to the difficulty. Mere speculation, however - it's as likely that hard mode will just be a toggle people throw on to get better loot.

Thoughts on what "Hard Mode" even means:

Yes, it's harder. But will it also be easier? I've heard that monsters will no longer will run from AoE. I've heard Afflicted explosions will be toned down and turned into armor-ignoring damage. These are two examples of how the game can be altered to cater to the casual player that is tired of the game being SIMPLY more difficult, and wants it to be more fun. Perhaps instead of finding more enemies with higher levels we may find very small amounts of enemies with very, very high levels and potent skills. After all, we have no need to run to the next area, having beaten the game. Hard Mode is for the challenge and the rewards, isn't it? Doesn't it make sense that at least some areas will actually DECREASE the number of monsters in favor of creating tactical battles? Mesmers may even see more use here, if we end up fighting single, powerful opponents as opposed to hundreds of disposable morons.

Thoughts on "better drops:"

What does that even mean? Better drops? Does it mean that more items will be max damage at earlier points? Useless. I'd just sell them like I always do. Will more items be rare? Equally useless. Increase the rate a rare drops and you make rares less rare - less valuable. What if they were new skins? I suppose this would create some value, but ultimately, would just create slightly rare items that will devalue the same as any item over time. The practice of farming these items may even split the player base and make finding people to play with slightly more difficult. Make more greens? Even more useless. Greens are often less valuable than rares are, and have become very commonplace, arguably. I recall giving away and even merching greens for about 35 gold as early as a month after Sorrow's Furnace was introduced. Greens may be perfect but they aren't valuable - they're just unique. Maybe "better drops" means that common items will simply merch for more, and salvage for more. I really don't care. The only reason I require money, personally, is for the occasional 15k armor. Obviously Obsidian doesn't mean anything anymore. If just making Hard Mode a place to earn more gold to buy items and armor you find in Normal Mode is all it has to offer, it will exist almost solely for the experience, not the reward. So I'm not sure exactly what Hard Mode will "offer" as far as drops go. The way Guild Wars is set up, items cannot exceed a certain level of "real" value - everything is the same aside from aesthetics. You won't kill a monster and find a sword with a 45-125 damage rating. Swords will always be swords, and you will always be level 20, and will always do the same amount of damage you always have; you will not enhance your player avatar in any way aside from possibly how shiny the device he has in his hand is. The economy is crafted in such a way that creating more of rare materials, or common materials, or gold, will not be of any value to anyone because it will simply water down the system.

Overall, I'm not really certain what Hard Mode purports to bring. My pessimistic side forsees Hard Mode as being a place where elitists gather, and farmers have more reason to cause ANet to overreact and nerf skills that affect PvP, PvE and "HPvE." I see the player base being split in many ways, and the economy stagnating or fluctuating wildly as a result. I anticipate many new updates to skills that don't need fixing, and are only toyed with because players are having too much success and as a result, damage the game in some fashion.

Ultimately, my pessimistic side reminds me that Guild Wars is not a game of overachievers: you cannot and will not be better than another player; everyone is equal; you just look differently, in a minor way. Guild Wars is not a game of rewards: drops are infrequent and very worthless; gold is split apart, large groups of monsters or monsters of higher level do not drop higher level items, and rare drops are not more powerful - they only cost more, and only to the right people.

My optimistic side really only has one thing to say: "It's new. Might as well try it."

MirageMaster · Apr 16, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Gaile said that you cant hench/hero hard mode,youll die... sounds like damn DoA to me. >_>

Anticle_Aurelius · Apr 16, 2007, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDZeres

I hope that hard mode will not be another DoA. DoA is lame (all you need to do is aggro nuke, repeat - try anything else and you wont make it.)

Gaile Grey had been asked if Hard Mode would be just another big DoA, and she replied "no, no, no. Though there will be a Hard mode in DoA and I can't believe it." <-- Not exactly what she said but something similar

Kali Magdalene · Apr 16, 2007, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirageMaster

Gaile said that you cant hench/hero hard mode,youll die... sounds like damn DoA to me. >_>

If I saw the same quote you did, Gaile said that it should be very difficult to hench/hero, not that it would be impossible or that you wouldn't be allowed to.

ayame ftw · Apr 16, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obey The Cat

I would prefer fire islands difficulty.... should be possible with heroes and npc.

but thats not hard at all... just watch the patrols and u can cleare it with henchmen without 1 death

Nexus Icon · Apr 16, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

What I want is a difficulty like the "Duel of the Houses" Kurzick faction quest outside of Brauer Academy.
Intelligently designed skillbars, an equal number of foes in the mob, and all of them level 20, yet they still manage to kick most people's arses.
They don't need cheap environmental effects or ridiculously overpowered monster skills; they just hand you your ass, and do it with style.
They res as soon as one of them dies, they avoid AoE damage, they use wards, they're just pretty damn cool.

But I just know that ANet are going to take the cheap way out with this.
I predict exactly what most people here don't want: hordes of level 28 monsters with ridiculously powerful monster skills, running around in a random patrol pattern in areas that punish just about every action a player performs.

BDZeres · Apr 16, 2007, 06:47 AM // 06:47

"I predict exactly what most people here don't want: hordes of level 28 monsters with ridiculously powerful monster skills, running around in a random patrol pattern in areas that punish just about every action a player performs."

For the love of jeebus... please none of this... please Anet! PLEASE!

cyberjanet · Apr 16, 2007, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanryanryan0310

It will be fun fighting high level Charr..I wonder what they will drop..

If you have finished Prophecies you can fight level 24 Charr Axe Lords.
They're pretty hard, especially as you're limited to a party of 4 from Frontier Gate.

Which makes me wonder whether Hard Mode will be Titan Quests hard.

Milennin · Apr 16, 2007, 08:02 AM // 08:02

The Titan quests where hard yeah, especially with the 4-man teams.XD Would be nice to have hard-mode at that kind of level.

bungusmaximus · Apr 16, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Titan Quest FTW! everytime when I did one of those I really enjoyed them. It's hard, but it's quite obvious what you can bring to make it through. I would like hard mode to be about pressure, no dude with a hammer that kills you in 2 blows, that's no pressure, you'll be dead before you feel any pressure at all. make it FoW hard, those were playable with balanced groups, but you had to know what you were doing.

kumarshah · Apr 16, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Anybody feel like adding new Elites available for caps only in hard mode would be a fun idea?

Also makes the Skill Hunter tile (after they split it) harder to get.

Cebe · Apr 16, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Things I'm looking forward to:

Level 20 Mantid Monitors in Sunqua Vale
Hard Mode Kunvie Firewing, Bazzr Dustwing and Wavecrest Stonebreak (ouch!)
New Toys and "Re-usable" lock picks.

What I don't want to see is, instead of level 1 Mantid Monitors in the Sunqua Vale, they are level 30 Mantid PWNZ0RZ all using Meditation of the Reaper and Enemies Must Die. I don't want to see situations whereby ONLY warriors, monks and elementalists are needed. I know there is a "mesmer buff" coming but I still don't believe that many other classes would be considered "hard mode material" even then, unless for instance, there were monk bosses such as Hard Mode Willa the Unpleasants who required proper focussed shutdown by a mesmer (or equivalent) while the rest of the team pummelled the other foes...I don't believe that would happen however.

I hope the only way to access hard mode is to have completed Protector on the campaign first, to help the quality of Hard Mode PuGs somewhat, although attaining Protector of Cantha is hardly difficult...that plan may prove flawed.

Tingi · Apr 16, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinious

Seriously, please do not let hard mode be like DoA. Make it more like fighting an semi-decent PvP team.

IWAY Afflicted... B/P Charr...Blood Spike Skales...ZB Margonite Priests...SF Spam Imps...BoA Oni...

For example, an average Skale Blighter skill bar in hard mode-
Spoil Victor (E)
Life Siphon
Faintheartedness
Well of Blood
Parasitic Bond
Signet of Lost Souls

It will unload Spoil Victor on a high health target, and then proceed to apply -7 degeneration to as many foes as possible while using well of blood whenever a corpse appears. Signet of Lost Souls will be used effectively.

An average Charr Axe Fiend-
Flail
Enraging Rush
Eviscerate (E)
Executioner Strike
Agonizing Chop
Lion's Comfort

This axe fiend will actually behave like a PvP'er, charging adrenaline with ER and flail, and then choosing an unenchanted low AL target and unleashing Evisc>Exec>Agonizing Chop.

An average Lava Imp-
Searing Flames (E)
Glowing Gaze
Liquid Flame
Meteor Shower
Glyph of Sacrifice
Fire Attunement

This would make people think twice about fighting imps- It will spam SF, GG, LF, and then use GoS + MS against a tightly clumped group of targets.

About levels- I want them to be lowered. Yes. Lowered. I CERTAINLY would not want to fight a group of level 29 Bladed Aatxes that auto-targets unenchanted squishies, and has an IAS with an Adrenaline Spike Chain. Or a group of level 28 Oni with like 25 dagger mastery with a BoA (Flurry, since BoA Nerf) Sin's Build.

To Sum up what hard mode should be-

Increased Monster AI (Breaks Aggro From Tanks and Autotargets enchanted squishies- Monks/Casters run from melee...Chooses perfect times for skills, such as nuking clumped groups)

Better SkillBars- Let the mob's skillbars work together and be much more effective, somewhat like a PvP team. Increase high damage AoE skills on monsters, and make monster monks somewhat near the level of human monks in skills and usage.

Lowered Levels, or Less- With these insane AI boosts and skill usage, monsters SHOULD NOT come in huge swarms of level 28's. That would make "HARD" mode into "IMPOSSIBLE" Mode.

What hard mode SHOULD NOT BE-

-Hordes and Hordes of Level 28's using Hax0r Ub3r Pwnage Skills, but with the AI of a braindead rat. (Cough Cough* Enraged.)

A perfect example of what Hard Mode should somewhat be like- Remember those level 20 Jade Brotherhood Gangs in Kaineng that seemed to always own you? Remember how they probably wiped your party more than all the mobs in Echovald and Jade Sea combined?

That was because they had an excellent skill set, with armor buffs, huge AoE damage, hex removal, interrupts, and KD's. The Knights had high armor, and used Watch Yourself!, Cyclone Axe, Tripe Chop, and Furious Axe. The Mages used Dragon Stomp, stringing a chain of constant Knockdowns, Wards, and Double Dragon for high AoE spike damage. The mesmers had Expel Hexes, and 2 interrupts. The ritualists were effective healers, and used Ancestors Rage (Another High AoE damage skill) on your party. These puny level 20's made me a lot more scared a lot of level 28 mobs.

This is what all of hard mode should be like.

QTF.

Anet will probably put in "hard mode monster skills" but that would make it crap. Skills just need to be thought out more, and coincide with other party members skills.