Curse

Kaleban · Apr 21, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ane

its a multiplayer game, of course it affects me if everybody gets way more gold because they farm solo or if its impossible to get a pug for uw because nobody does groups there...

No it DOESN'T affect you, and here's the reason:

You can acquire equipment with the same stats as the high priced items very cheaply, either through collectors or 1.5k armor crafters.

THAT route is for those who either don't wish to farm, or are unlucky with drops.

Stats wise, your gear will be the same, just not as "blinged" out.

Wanting more gold is not necessary to get max gear in the game. Those that want more gold, can get it, through farming.

And I don't know how long you've been playing, but in general pugging the harder areas of the game is a waste of time and money. At least in my experience.

Get it through your head, the way I or anyone else plays does not affect you because the game is not persistent, its instanced. All the items you need can be easily had, the items you WANT can be farmed for. Simple, really.

2ane · Apr 21, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

No it DOESN'T affect you, and here's the reason:

You can acquire equipment with the same stats as the high priced items very cheaply, either through collectors or 1.5k armor crafters.

THAT route is for those who either don't wish to farm, or are unlucky with drops.

Stats wise, your gear will be the same, just not as "blinged" out.

Wanting more gold is not necessary to get max gear in the game. Those that want more gold, can get it, through farming.

And I don't know how long you've been playing, but in general pugging the harder areas of the game is a waste of time and money. At least in my experience.

Get it through your head, the way I or anyone else plays does not affect you because the game is not persistent, its instanced. All the items you need can be easily had, the items you WANT can be farmed for. Simple, really.

so i shouldnt get my "bling" because i dont want to farm?

Commander Ryker · Apr 21, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

First you say this........

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ane

im not quitting, im gonna play the hard mode with my guild (and some heroes most of the time since its impossible to find players to join) and ill play GW:EN... if it sucks THEN ill quit...

Then you say this......

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ane

you shouldnt avoid me in a pug

According to your first statement, you won't be in any pugs. You'll be playing with guildies and hero/hench. So, to go with your theory and what you've said, you are ruining the game by not being in any pugs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ane

so i shouldnt get my "bling" because i dont want to farm?

Not that you shouldn't, but that you won't. It's your choice.

Messy · Apr 21, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ane

im not quitting, im gonna play the hard mode with my guild (and some heroes most of the time since its impossible to find players to join) and ill play GW:EN... if it sucks THEN ill quit...

you shouldnt avoid me in a pug

ok fair enough, no go on and start playing

you are wasting valuable play time by being glued to this board going on and on and on and on

Just go play the way you play, and let me play the way I like to play.

<--eating breakfast and reading boards.

and avoiding pugs is not about you, lol, I just avoid them, but I do join them every now and then.

Kaleban · Apr 21, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ane

so i shouldnt get my "bling" because i dont want to farm?

Reward concurrent with effort.

Play in a group, share drops.

Play solo, get all drops.

Simple.

You want bling, make an effort to get bling. Any game where there are choices will introduce a division of wealth, if they use gold and/or a barter system.

If you just want things handed to you because you're lazy, then you should consider moving to a socialist country where that kind of thing is encouraged.

Here's a question:

If they make it equally rewarding to solo or group in terms of loot, or even better for grouping, then what stops the previous 1337 soloers from simply loading up a precise hero/hench build and farming faster and easier?

Face it, those that want to farm, will do so. Its a type of gameplay. Instead of whining about the "terrible" notion of other people having more than you because they worked for it, why not just play the game you're happy to play, and let us play our way?

If we follow your type of reasoning to its logical conclusion, then ANet will make it so that ALL players can only access the game for a specified number of hours per day, so that NO ONE player acquires more wealth than any other through group farming, or just plain playing more and getting more drops.

The kids that can logon for 10 hours a day will have more gold and "bling" than those who can do at best, a few hours a week. Using your logic, ANet would have to restrict "time farmers" to the least number of hours put in by the average gamer.

Same concept as farming, different situation. Do YOU want ANet to tell you when you can and cannot play?

2ane · Apr 21, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Ryker

First you say this........

Then you say this......

According to your first statement, you won't be in any pugs. You'll be playing with guildies and hero/hench. So, to go with your theory and what you've said, you are ruining the game by not being in any pugs.

Not that you shouldn't, but that you won't. It's your choice.

i even gave the answer to that in the quotes.... there are no pugs for that nowadays, i can remember doing stuff like the titan missions with pugs or simply doing quests, but that doesnt exist anymore all that players do is farm....

2ane · Apr 21, 2007, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Reward concurrent with effort.

Play in a group, share drops.

Play solo, get all drops.

Simple.

You want bling, make an effort to get bling. Any game where there are choices will introduce a division of wealth, if they use gold and/or a barter system.

i worked (well ok it was mostly fun) harder for the little gold i have than every solo-farmer and i should get rewarded for that, but i wont because you can do some solo-runs and get 30 times more gold than i would get in that time...

Kaleban · Apr 21, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ane

i worked (well ok it was mostly fun) harder for the little gold i have than every solo-farmer and i should get rewarded for that, but i wont because you can do some solo-runs and get 30 times more gold than i would get in that time...

You invalidate your whole argument before the first sentence is even complete.

Your definition of challenge and difficulty is obviously wildly different than mine. I think its more difficult to solo farm then to flag 7 hero/hench to do it for me while I drink tea.

And it wouldn't be 30 times more, 8 times more, as in my one character is doing 8 times the work. Apparently simple math and economics are way over your head.

And as to your assertion that PUGs are gone because of t3h 1337 ub3r h4x0r 3v1l solo farmers, you don't suppose that things have changed because the number of players has not increased proportionately to the amount of content added in with Factions and Nightfall do you?

Try a couple of the mission outposts in the Jade Sea, and tell me that's due to solo farmers. Its due to the same amount of people being spread across three campaigns and three times the outposts.

And besides, you will get rewarded for your work/fun in 8 player groups, just not as much as the solo guy who does the work of 8 players by himself. Simple.

Here's an experiment for you. Go ask your dad if he would be cool that at his job, he was tasked with doing the work of an entire group of people, say 8 people.

And then was told that with all this extra responsibility, he was still only going to make the salary of ONE of those people in the group. So he's doing 8 times the work, for 1/8 the reward.

THAT'S what you're saying needs to happen in Guild Wras.

allience · Apr 21, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

i don't know what are u saying thanks for. i went to do the turai procession quest run AFTER this update and there was no difference since the nerf. i still got 1 blue item and 6-7 white items in hard mode, getting me around 500 gold..

it's complete bullshit. i also went today with 7 friends in hard mode UW and the drops were pitiful also. i killed 100+ enemies in the desolation area with henchies and not a single good drop.

i realised that since the nerf, if u play as 1 person or as 8 ppl, u get same amount of drops, meaning basically nothing from which u can make a proffit. at least if we would get more loot in a bigger party it would be fair.

i would like to mention that i'm not a dedicated farmer, i never got farming code or anything. most i ever did was 2-3 sole runs in 1 day. it's not like the lack of drops is coz i farm too much.

anet just made this game unplesant for me coz i'm casual pve player. i'm not able to get any decent amount of gold anymore.

FeroxC · Apr 21, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

GJ with hard mode but imo you shouldnt of caved in for the 55hp community.

reetkever · Apr 21, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ane

so i shouldnt get my "bling" because i dont want to farm?

That's right. If farmers work there @$$ off for 'bling', why should you get it for free?

And when 'bling' is aquired for free, it's not 'bling' anymore, but it's 'everyone has me, I'm not worth 5h!t'

If you want the bling badly, then you should have no problem with investing time in it. Or are you angry at Bill Gates as well, and suggest that you deserve more cash than him without working for it?

Oh, and there is a reason why People don't PuG.

There's nothing fun about doing UW with 8 man, and 1 random guy you don't know gets the only ecto. There is nothing fun about farming in a group of 8, where other people seem to get the best drops all the time, and after they get a drop, leave the game.

There is nothing fun about waiting an hour for somebody because he/she had to eat or something like that, and there is nothing fun about getting a party wipe because of 1 ignorant person (Like luring monsters to screw party over, killing people to get their drops, scamming people, holding quest items until someone pays, etc.)

Viet Spirit · Apr 21, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

This is definitely a good move by Arenet. Thanks for listening to us. I was 1 of them saddest whiners when the nerf happened but now I must apologize if I was any rude.

Looking forward to GW:EN now

rohlfinator · Apr 21, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

I just registered to say that there are many of us who supported the solo farming "nerf." Since ArenaNet seems to be listening closely to players on this update, I want to do my part to make sure that the opinions of the vocal minority aren't overshadowing the rest of us.

A few points:

A lot of solo farmers have complained that ArenaNet was trying to discourage a certain playing style. This was not the case. Rather, they were equalizing the drop system so that all playing styles are rewarded equally. As someone who prefers group play, it's kind of discouraging to know that I could easily earn 8x the drops by simply pulling a build off wiki and following a step-by-step guide.

Some of the fans of farming have mentioned that they enjoy soloing for the challenge of discovering new builds. The update did nothing to change that. If your enjoyment came from the challenge, you were still free to design and test builds freely. You just weren't rewarded 8x more for your style of play.

Also, there were some complaints that nerfing solo farming would make skill unlocks and high-end content unattainable. This is simply not true. Among myself and three of my friends who play, we each have at least one set of 15k armor (some of us have two or three), and we each have most or all of the skills unlocked in the campaigns we own, without farming. Granted, none of us could afford FoW armor, but that was never intended for casual players anyway.

Anyway, I'm kind of skeptical that ANet will change things back to the way things were on Thursday (where all styles of play were equally encouraged), but I can only hope that they're at least considering other opinions in this situation.

reetkever · Apr 21, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohlfinator

I just registered to say that there are many of us who supported the solo farming "nerf." Since ArenaNet seems to be listening closely to players on this update, I want to do my part to make sure that the opinions of the vocal minority aren't overshadowing the rest of us.

A few points:

A lot of solo farmers have complained that ArenaNet was trying to discourage a certain playing style. This was not the case. Rather, they were equalizing the drop system so that all playing styles are rewarded equally. As someone who prefers group play, it's kind of discouraging to know that I could easily earn 8x the drops by simply pulling a build off wiki and following a step-by-step guide.

Some of the fans of farming have mentioned that they enjoy soloing for the challenge of discovering new builds. The update did nothing to change that. If your enjoyment came from the challenge, you were still free to design and test builds freely. You just weren't rewarded 8x more for your style of play.

Also, there were some complaints that nerfing solo farming would make skill unlocks and high-end content unattainable. This is simply not true. Among myself and three of my friends who play, we each have at least one set of 15k armor (some of us have two or three), and we each have most or all of the skills unlocked in the campaigns we own, without farming. Granted, none of us could afford FoW armor, but that was never intended for casual players anyway.

Anyway, I'm kind of skeptical that ANet will change things back to the way things were on Thursday (where all styles of play were equally encouraged), but I can only hope that they're at least considering other opinions in this situation.

So why do you support the farm nerf? Don't think you had these 15K armors if thousands of farmers didn't salvage their loot, got rare crafting materials and flooding the market with them.

You're right, skill unlocks aren't unobtainable without farming, but BUYING the skills is. There are over a 1000 skills. Don't think you can get them all from just doing the storyline.

Also, I also enjoy farming for the thrill of the hunt, but I also want to be rewarded properly. There are people who really like their job, but nobody will work without getting rewarded.

Enjoying farming is still an opinion. Don';t go around saying everyone enjoys farming. I sometimes hate to farm as well, like when I need new runes for my heroes and don't have the cash for it, or when I can't buy skills for a new build. At these times you can't say 'well you can enjoy farming to it's fullest, you're just getting less drops.'

The main purpose of farming is drops. Someone who's having fun with it is just a lucky guy. You can't kill the purpose of farming and still manage to keep it fun.

Oh, and:
8 guys killing 10 trolls get 3 items per person
1 guy killing 10 trolls get 3 items

How is this equal? The more work you do, the less you get rewarded.

lacasner · Apr 21, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Everyone don't yell at Anet hard mode was a great use of instances and a good idea. Temporary revitalization of PvE ftw.

Corpselooter · Apr 21, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Some people that Hard mode is like DoA. DoA is Hard. That's why it's called hard mode. I just can't understand why some people think the game is made for them. It's made for everybody, hell, most of the players are acting like they are the only ones playing GW.

"Fix this, Update that, no that's all wrong!"
STOP DOING THAT. They should've made guild wars like this in the very beginning, no whining solo farmers. Go tomb barraging instead of being an self centered piece of shit. It's called FUN. I understand why some people enjoy solo farming, but there's more than that in this game. Try to adapt, it's an massive MULTIPLAYER online rpg. Just.. try..

~corpsiey =D

Kaleban · Apr 21, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corpselooter

Some people that Hard mode is like DoA. DoA is Hard. That's why it's called hard mode. I just can't understand why some people think the game is made for them. It's made for everybody, hell, most of the players are acting like they are the only ones playing GW.

"Fix this, Update that, no that's all wrong!"
STOP DOING THAT. They should've made guild wars like this in the very beginning, no whining solo farmers. Go tomb barraging instead of being an self centered piece of shit. It's called FUN. I understand why some people enjoy solo farming, but there's more than that in this game. Try to adapt, it's an massive MULTIPLAYER online rpg. Just.. try..

~corpsiey =D

So its made for everybody, but it secretly isn't? Nice.

If you understand why some enjoy solo farming, then why curtail it? I think 8 player trapping is exploiting AI, but I don't say get rid of rangers those self centered pieces of...

Fun is different for each person. How about you understand that, then come back and make intelligent comments?

Swift Thief · Apr 21, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Thanks ANet! Hard mode is something we have all wanted!

rohlfinator · Apr 21, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

So why do you support the farm nerf? Don't think you had these 15K armors if thousands of farmers didn't salvage their loot, got rare crafting materials and flooding the market with them.

Um... no. I got most of the crafting materials from going through the campaign and end-game quests.

Quote:

You're right, skill unlocks aren't unobtainable without farming, but BUYING the skills is. There are over a 1000 skills. Don't think you can get them all from just doing the storyline.

Strange, I bought all the Prophecies and Nightfall skills by "just doing the storyline" on multiple characters. So did one of my friends, and the other two are close to having them both completed. Sure, they didn't get handed to us overnight... we've all been playing for a little over a year. But it can be done.

Do all the skill quests in Prophecies, get all the hero skills in Nightfall, it lightens the load considerably. Beyond that, it's pretty easy to make money playing the game. Doing the Vabbi quests on two or three characters nets quite a few rubies or sapphires. Opening chests as you go will eventually get you some valuable runes. If you don't blow all your money on fancy looking weapons and armor, it's not that hard to get the skills you want.

Quote:

How is this equal? The more work you do, the less you get rewarded.

Both players in your example were rewarded the exact same amount.

And farming is hardly "work"... most times it's just finding a build that exploits the enemies in a certain area.

Kaleban · Apr 21, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohlfinator

Both players in your example were rewarded the exact same amount.

GAH! NO... THEY... WEREN'T! How blind are you?

Reward should equal the amount of kills divided by the number of people it took to accomplish the kills.

R = k/P

8 player group kills 8 monsters

R = 8/8
R = 1

So each player in an 8 player group gets 1 drop

1 player group kills 8 monsters

R = 8/1
R = 8

So the solo player should get 8 drops, because he accomplished the work of 8 by himself.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?