Curse

bungusmaximus · Apr 23, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Hmm didn't it dawn to you people that hard mode might not be suited for hero/hench in the first place?
It looks to me like an attempt to re-vamp PUGing, and a pretty successful one to. Look at it from my side, I lost interest in a good part of PvE because the only people still looking for teams were stragglers that couldn't do the job without heroes. You don't want players like that in your team, because theyre really bad mostly. My idea of fun is doing a job while the rest of the team does theirs, micromanaging 7 henchmen is not my idea of fun. I get kicks out of teaming up, but apart from guild groups that take me along, overall team quality is horrid. I welcome hard mode with open arms, because I finally have the opportunity to team up with good people again

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Patrick Smit · Apr 23, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

I can agree to some extend with you Bungusmaximus, but it could have been achieved differently, and it should be considered that not everyone might have the time to do HM, sometimes IRL asks them to put aside GW for a bit, and in a PUG this is usually not very welcome.

Furthermore, if most move to HM, also bad players will move to HM, I already have experienced a few that don't know how to kite, or even effectively use skills. Not only good players migrated but also bad ones.

Illuminus · Apr 23, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Been having a blast. Dragons Gullet was by far the worst defeat... We cleared Flame Corridor easily with 2 Elementalists and 2 Ritualists, but lacked... err, protection against the Hydras in Dragons Gullet

. I know at least that i wont forget to bring Shelter on my second try though.

D'Alessio Seaboard was also difficult. After about 3 failed attempts we had success. Those AI can have some good timing with their earthquake spike! I'm dreading some of the missions we have not done yet... especially missions like Vizunah Square! O what fun

bungusmaximus · Apr 23, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

I can already tell you Vizunah is HAXXXX, any good tips on beating that one are greatly appreciated. I can bodyblock with either minions or pets in most regular missions, but in Vizunah mobs come from every direction and just rape me. BHA spike sucks as hell on my healers :P. Maybe spirits/wards or whatever? Oh, and let the first one to complete Eternal Grove on HM please speak

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Bryant Again · Apr 23, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Leaving north from Riverside Province was the first time I cried in hard mode.

Takeko Nakano · Apr 23, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Hmm didn't it dawn to you people that hard mode might not be suited for hero/hench in the first place? It looks to me like an attempt to re-vamp PUGing, and a pretty successful one to.

I disagree that it is a good attempt, because now the mistakes of the other people in your group cost you the entire mission/area. You can't screen people for intelligence or strategy - you have to take a risk. So when your warrior decides he's going to aggro 2/3 mobs of ghosts in Nolani Academy, they rush past him, kill the monk, take everyone else out and that's it.

And don't say "oh, you just need to tell him not to". People are stupid, people make mistakes, they get lag, etc. So if anything Hard Mode is making it LESS LIKELY for people to take PUGs, because they won't want to risk some noob warrior fcuking it up for them. People will rely on guildies, hope that they can get a hero build that works or simply not do it.

Patrick Smit is right. HM is making it much more difficult for some people, because the morons, noobs and gits are trying it as well.

bungusmaximus · Apr 23, 2007, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

I disagree that it is a good attempt, because now the mistakes of the other people in your group cost you the entire mission/area. You can't screen people for intelligence or strategy - you have to take a risk. So when your warrior decides he's going to aggro 2/3 mobs of ghosts in Nolani Academy, they rush past him, kill the monk, take everyone else out and that's it.

Yeah but I'm not gonna blame aNet for people being stupid. The only other workaround I can think of is making hard mode less difficult, well, no thx. And heroes aren't better then most players I know too, I caught tahlkora casting Protective Spirit on minions ><.

Takeko Nakano · Apr 23, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Yeah but I'm not gonna blame aNet for people being stupid. The only other workaround I can think of is making hard mode less difficult, well, no thx.

It doesn't have to be "less difficult" - just different. As people have constantly been saying, ANet screwed up by making various monsters just too overpowering when they could have been more imaginative in how to make the experience harder.

I have a serious feeling the devs didn't bother playing through the missions on hard mode to see what they were like (if they did, only briefly), just threw in the changes and assumed they'd be fine.

Quote:

And heroes aren't better then most players I know too

Still better taking a risk with them.

bungusmaximus · Apr 23, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

It doesn't have to be "less difficult" - just different. As people have constantly been saying, ANet screwed up by making various monsters just too overpowering when they could have been more imaginative in how to make the experience harder.

I have a serious feeling the devs didn't bother playing through the missions on hard mode to see what they were like (if they did, only briefly), just threw in the changes and assumed they'd be fine.

Still better taking a risk with them.

IMO there's a difference between smarter mobs and stronger mobs. Smarter mobs own you slowly (Jade Brotherhood/forgotten) and stronger mobs own you in 2 blasts (many rit. and ele bosses). If people are not up for the challenge, better get it over with fast. This hard mode seems to be a deadly mix of both, which I personally like a lot. If hard mode was designed in such a way that hero/hench would become an option, it really wouldn't be that hard.

I believe that HM is doable with hench anyway, but try to get masters reward with them and you will get shafted :P I'm currently trying HM with henchies but I get expert reward at best. I only managed to get masters at minister cho's estate, but that one is still cake. But heck, I'm not even sure anymore if I still get your point, I might be miles beside it.

Juicey Shake · Apr 23, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

cleared 123 enemies in gandara only to find a kournan guard very out of radius in an unrechable spot, gg.

other than that rest of game has been a breeze when my friend and I weren't completely joking around, N/Rt's pwn hard mode, and when they get nerfed, well, I regard HM as "bring prot spirit mode" anyway.

Takeko Nakano · Apr 23, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

IMO there's a difference between smarter mobs and stronger mobs. Smarter mobs own you slowly (Jade Brotherhood/forgotten) and stronger mobs own you in 2 blasts (many rit. and ele bosses). If people are not up for the challenge, better get it over with fast.

That's a rather arrogant comment. Who says people that have problems "are not up for the challenge"? I won't comment about myself, but I have played with people who found it riduclous in places who are very, very good players - some of the best.

You obviously don't read what people have to say, because anyone would know that there is nothing you can do if your mission-crucial NPC decides to super-aggro several groups of enemies or will not follow you to a safer area in the 4-man areas. The best monk is still going to drown when those enemies decide he's a tastier target - or simply runs out of energy because that NPC is being attacked by so many monsters at once.

You do not have the right to dismiss anyone who has argued for HM being modified as "not up for the challenge". I suggest you rethink your attitude.

Quote:

But heck, I'm not even sure anymore if I still get your point, I might be miles beside it.

No, you don't get it at all. The point was people would prefer NPCs to risking noobs wasting their time.

bungusmaximus · Apr 23, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

That's a rather arrogant comment. Who says people that have problems "are not up for the challenge"? I won't comment about myself, but I have played with people who found it riduclous in places who are very, very good players - some of the best.

Well this average player can hero/hench Raisu Palace. I didn't try vanquishing though, it's just too much work for me. I can very well imagine there will be trouble in some parts (I didn't try Nightfall, but I think flame djinns will not be a prety sight). I just loathe the fact that some people want it all on a silver platter, and I thought for a minute you were one of these people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

You obviously don't read what people have to say, because anyone would know that there is nothing you can do if your mission-crucial NPC decides to super-aggro several groups of enemies or will not follow you to a safer area in the 4-man areas. The best monk is still going to drown when those enemies decide he's a tastier target - or simply runs out of energy because that NPC is being attacked by so many monsters at once.

Hmm I already stated my opinions on mission critical NPC's some place else, and I'm completely with you on that one. I started with factions and factions has maggot-brained master togo to make up for Rurik. Oh the horror of starting over 4 times because togo died :P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

You do not have the right to dismiss anyone who has argued for HM being modified as "not up for the challenge". I suggest you rethink your attitude.

But I don't dissmiss everyone, I just hate it when people take 7 mediocre henchmen along and expect to own right away without a single death. What I exactly meant was that if people can't beat overpowering mobs, they can't beat smart mobs as well. So adding smart mobs instead of strong ones won't improve overall success rate, bad players will still get owned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

No, you don't get it at all. The point was people would prefer NPCs to risking noobs wasting their time.

I dont like to play with henchies at all, I settle with the noob, matter of personal taste. Dunkoro tanking SHiro'ken is MY idea of wasting time.

Takeko Nakano · Apr 23, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

So adding smart mobs instead of strong ones won't improve overall success rate, bad players will still get owned.

But it might give better players a chance of getting past those annoying areas (e.g. four-man only). I'm sure they can change Hard Mode to make it more passable without making it too easy.

Orbberius · Apr 23, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14

If you want to beat missions with heroes and henchies, but can't manage in HM, stick to normal mode.

Evilsod · Apr 23, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

There is no way in hell i'm gonna pug ANYTHING in hard mode. I'm not prepared to get through half an area to find out 1 of them didn't even have enough time to finish. Or that 1 of them is a complete prick and ragequits after 1 party wipe.

Its all Heros, Hench and the Alliance from here on out.

So far my most irritating experience... survived the Mission+Bonus at Thunderkeep right until the end....... then Dorians mob came and wiped me out...

oljomo · Apr 23, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Hi

ITs gotta be blacktide den....

A group of 17 level 23/24s that wont split part?? Definately what i call hard....

Oljo Mo

SotiCoto · Apr 23, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

So far my most irritating experience... survived the Mission+Bonus at Thunderkeep right until the end....... then Dorians mob came and wiped me out...

Has the damage of the siege weapons been upgraded for Hard Mode or not?

Effendi Westland · Apr 23, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

There is no way in hell i'm gonna pug ANYTHING in hard mode. I'm not prepared to get through half an area to find out 1 of them didn't even have enough time to finish. Or that 1 of them is a complete prick and ragequits after 1 party wipe.

Its all Heros, Hench and the Alliance from here on out.

So far my most irritating experience... survived the Mission+Bonus at Thunderkeep right until the end....... then Dorians mob came and wiped me out...

Nah pugs are great, especially when you recognise their guild and know they have decent players in them

Some guildies of mine had the THK experience as well lol, guess it's no longer an anti-climax ^^

I myself was busy getting owned by some charr patrol while fightning a boss in the second mission in ascalon.... that was a little ... wow, just like the titans quest. I am liking it though, we're all noobs again!

ensoriki · Apr 23, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Saoshing Trail, walked in saw the Henchmen die in 3 seconds went WTF and tried to run away, activated dash and I noticed the monsters could keep up with me Dash wore out and I got slapped..

Enko · Apr 23, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draco Angelus

well i've never had it this bad in a good while, I decided to try a vanquish somewhere, I wanted to wurmpwn so I chose Sulfurous wastes.

Everything went fine, took a bit longer since i avoided some mobs to get the hunt for them first, anyway, lastly I take out the necro uberboss up in the north, thinking that's the last of em.

errr, no.....check the pic

click here for ultimate LAMENESS

So it turns out i had to Jundu smash a friggin pillar to GET there, and I killed everything allready!!! no Ardenaline possible!!!!

3 friggin monsters......ARGH!!!

Exact same thing happened to me . .. had to restart.