Curse

Frantic-Sheep · Apr 25, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Well, there's one slight difference in the comparisons you make. That is that GW is a MMO and that HL/Morrowind etc. are not

In a persistant world (for the sake of argument lets just say it is) you build up a character and have no specific ending (sorta).

Hmm, cheating enemies? Ever played Dungeons and Dragons?

I wouldnt say cheating, I would just say 'making it more interesting'.

And if you are interested in the different types of people, which also leads to different styles of gaming (and designing), a nice read is about the Myer Briggs Type Indicator: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs

Maybe you understand why other people do/like the other things they do/like

zwei2stein · Apr 25, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Stuff is too easy if you dont have to improve your playstyle or used builds.

WetWookie · Apr 25, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

I think that playing in the NBA is entirely too hard. I want to play in the NBA so I think the basket should be 5 feet off the ground. If the other players think it's too easy then they should wear blind folds. Also, I'm going for the title of MVP. It's not fair that people who are better then me can be named MVP. Since I am unable to meet the requirements of being an MVP the requirements should be lowered. Everybody should be able to become an MVP regardless of their actual skill in the game.

SotiCoto · Apr 25, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frantic-Sheep

Well, there's one slight difference in the comparisons you make. That is that GW is a MMO and that HL/Morrowind etc. are not

In a persistant world (for the sake of argument lets just say it is) you build up a character and have no specific ending (sorta).

Hmm, cheating enemies? Ever played Dungeons and Dragons?

I wouldnt say cheating, I would just say 'making it more interesting'.

And if you are interested in the different types of people, which also leads to different styles of gaming (and designing), a nice read is about the Myer Briggs Type Indicator: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs

Maybe you understand why other people do/like the other things they do/like

I'm Aspergian. "Other people" are neurotypicals.
Neurotypicals are typically highly irrational.
Of course I don't understand why other people do / like the things they do / like.... because there is very little reason behind it. It is based on "feelings", which are erratic and unreliable at best.

And I would say the enemies in hard mode cheat.... and oddly enough become LESS; not more interesting.

And for the record.... Guild Wars is a lot more content-limited than Morrowind is....

And the Myer-Briggs indicator is a gross simplification of personality, highly inaccurate and impossible to use in a manner catering for all possible manners of conduct. It will only mislead you.

Numa Pompilius · Apr 25, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

"Too easy" is any area with those big worms you can ride around in and mow down the opposition. Turn on hard mode, enter your worm, and molest the hell out of the totally chanceless mobs.

SotiCoto · Apr 25, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetWookie

I think that playing in the NBA is entirely too hard. I want to play in the NBA so I think the basket should be 5 feet off the ground. If the other players think it's too easy then they should wear blind folds. Also, I'm going for the title of MVP. It's not fair that people who are better then me can be named MVP. Since I am unable to meet the requirements of being an MVP the requirements should be lowered. Everybody should be able to become an MVP regardless of their actual skill in the game.

Professional basketball players are paid to play the game; they do not pay to play the game... thus they're not going to be a part of it if they're not perceived to be capable of the top.
Furthermore, they knew full well what they were getting into when they signed up. They didn't put their whole life into it just to have the whole system flip upside-down.... and if it did, and it caused them to fall back... I'd imagine they'd be fairly annoyed about it too. Just the notion of the world's top basketball player complaining that it was too easy and asking the NBA to put spiked hoops on all the high-end games to make it "more of a challenge" is something I find strangely comical.

So... got any more woefully poor analogies I can rip to shreds?

Kyp Jade · Apr 25, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

I dont know if any of you are 'old' enough to realize this, but once upon a time (takes on storytellers tone) Thunderhead Keep and Abaddons Mouth were considered the hardest missions in the game. (This is about until 4 months after release, yea thats a LONG time ago)

In fact, anything from the desert onward in tyria, You could see monks spamming. "Will help group, 5k/person". And people had no problem paying these monks. So why dont we see that anymore? Its because people learned how to play the game.

What am I getting at in reference to hard mode. It's simple, Hard mode tactics are going to be slightly (not a lot) different than normal mode tactics. People will eventually learn they have to take a damage mitigation character or two instead of a lot of Fire eles and an MM. (enter the mesmer, water ele, air ele, trapper, etc). Personally I have had the most success with the water ele.

Basically, in normal mode, mobs die too fast (poor criters) because teams can afford to be sloppy and take a lot of wars, eles, and monks (holy trinity). Usually an MM is thrown into the mix too. In hard mode, perhaps you should rethink your 'build' of henchmen to be something other than dmg-defense type chars, if your having too much trouble.

Did first mission in realm of torment last night, expecting to get wiped. (I was the water ele, water ftw) A lot of people dont realize what a well placed blurred vision will do. And Deep freeze is for the win. I felt useless when my hero fire eles were doing most of the damage, but hey stuff died, we didnt die as much. (Dumb wammo running to terrorwebs without prot spirit cast on him yet). I was reminded how missions went back in the early days of guild wars. And I'll bet in a month or so, hard mode will be too easy, and you will see thousands of players with KoaBD titles or guardian/vanquisher titles.

/start rant
A-net why are you cheapening the KoaBD title track with these easy to obtain titles.
/end rant

-edit-
Forgot to mention I saw someone mention they have terrible problems with lag and cant do anything cause they rubberband into a mob or something.

Perhaps you should know I play on dial up (26k upload speed ftw) with an average ping of 900, This is all common for me, but easy to compensate for. And you never rubber band into a place you havent been yet, you should be more careful about your posisitioning.

*sigh* Cable in 2 days ftw

SotiCoto · Apr 25, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

I dont know if any of you are 'old' enough to realize this, but once upon a time (takes on storytellers tone) Thunderhead Keep and Abaddons Mouth were considered the hardest missions in the game. (This is about until 4 months after release, yea thats a LONG time ago)

In fact, anything from the desert onward in tyria, You could see monks spamming. "Will help group, 5k/person". And people had no problem paying these monks. So why dont we see that anymore? Its because people learned how to play the game.

What am I getting at in reference to hard mode. It's simple, Hard mode tactics are going to be slightly (not a lot) different than normal mode tactics. People will eventually learn they have to take a damage mitigation character or two instead of a lot of Fire eles and an MM. (enter the mesmer, water ele, air ele, trapper, etc). Personally I have had the most success with the water ele.

Basically, in normal mode, mobs die too fast (poor criters) because teams can afford to be sloppy and take a lot of wars, eles, and monks (holy trinity). Usually an MM is thrown into the mix too. In hard mode, perhaps you should rethink your 'build' of henchmen to be something other than dmg-defense type chars, if your having too much trouble.

Did first mission in realm of torment last night, expecting to get wiped. (I was the water ele, water ftw) A lot of people dont realize what a well placed blurred vision will do. And Deep freeze is for the win. I felt useless when my hero fire eles were doing most of the damage, but hey stuff died, we didnt die as much. (Dumb wammo running to terrorwebs without prot spirit cast on him yet). I was reminded how missions went back in the early days of guild wars. And I'll bet in a month or so, hard mode will be too easy, and you will see thousands of players with KoaBD titles or guardian/vanquisher titles.

It isn't going to be even possible for me until the Hero / Henchie AI is seriously improved... and even then I'm resentful of the special effects that the enemies get, as if their being higher level wasn't bad enough. It wouldn't be so bad if I had that Chimera thingie from the Abaddon's Mouth mission wherever I went in HM...

I mean I'm getting what you're saying. I might be able to tackle Hard Mode some day, and I will have given up complaining by then (might have given up GW full stop after that length of time though)... But even then I expect it will require cookie-cutter builds to survive to the degree that I ideally find entertaining. There will be no fun in it... and I just want to do it for the titles... and by the end of it I'll have become so paranoid and stressed out by it that Normal Mode will be forever ruined for me too...

I guess Hard Mode is just going to sap all the fun out of the game for people like me who don't find challenges fun at all.

Kyp Jade · Apr 25, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Perhaps I should be more blunt, and say take a character that either snares, blinds, is a general pain in the rear end, or all three. And then you will discover that hard mode really isnt hard, its just a lot of red dots on the minimap waiting to die.

In any case, good luck with that.

SotiCoto · Apr 25, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

In short.... If I can't do it with my Assassin (using a build that I can utilise comfortably) and a team of heroes / henchies.... then I can't do it, and I will be bitter about it....

Wtf Its A Monk · Apr 25, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Metaphorically speaking.... if you want to spend your entire life climbing higher up the mountain... that is your perogative. I find it far more fun to run down the mountain. But when I'm collecting flags and some dillweed sticks a few of the important ones at the top of that mountain... just for the sake of some climbers who would be going up there anyway, flags or not... that is when I get freakin annoyed.

Then again I don't suppose you'll follow that metaphor.

I do understand that actually.....basically you are saying you want a fixed bar...In stead of having someone raise the bar you want to be able to spend your sweet time getting to the top or above that bar while the rest of us are bored out of our minds....I personally like the bar to be raised and as you said that is my prerogative(you should use firefox it comes with built in spell check).....so feel free to stay in normal mode and take your sweet time but why ask others to suffer because you are a bit slower than some of us....I can understand that you want to be equal with everyone so be equal and use your equal rights to chose to do Normal mode rather than Hard Mode

TabascoSauce · Apr 25, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

And besides... even then I'd be reduced to constant concentration on the statistics and the troubles of staying alive... losing all appreciation for what I was actually trying to achieve. It would simply be an aggravating grind.

SotiCoto, for what it is worth, I want to put in a supportive word. I agree with your sentiment completely, if not necessarily every word you say.

These people telling you to "shut up and enjoy it" or "work harder" are really telling you to be a sheep and fall in line. Don't do that, and be like they are.

Unfortunately, I'd like to say that Hard mode is probably beneficial to the game as a whole, providing those with greater capacity that they claim as skill (to google cookie cutter builds IMHO) to continue to play as they see fit. The immediate down side is the mixing of the two crowds, with the sorting out of "Oh, you are a normal group, kthxbye" type of snobbery. Oh well, this is a competitive game, what do you expect? Group hugs? You build a tiger trap, you get a tiger, not a bunny.

I can tell you from personal experience that in my earlier game-life, I was all about playing prophecies and was struggling on some missions. I was playing with skill bars and trying to work out good builds pre-heroes of course. Maybe like you are now, maybe not. But something wonderful happened, a friend pointed out the guild wars wiki, and really my life has changed. Better in some ways, worse in others.

It was Thunderhead Keep. The wiki said "stay with the king at the top of the stairs, do not guard the doors". That mission went from night to day. I stay with the king, and I crush the mission. It was easy.

So all I can recommend is, read the wiki. For example, get Shields Up! for the Varesh fight, it makes it a lot easier.

Admittedly, going with the cookie cutter build removes all the fun for me concerning experimentation, since I can spend 5 or 6 hours experimenting and losing and trying again, or 3 minutes reading the wiki and win. I have a job and wife, so it is wiki. That really knocks a lot of the fun out.

Maybe you might want to refine your focus to why 75% of the skills are just plain not usable. That really forces cookie cutter builds because they are what works. Why not beef up the skills that are not as good as others? Wouldn't that expand the possibilities of builds and break out of the cookie cutter mold? Wouldn't that also make the game easier since the majority of skills would now be 10% more effective? I dont know about you, but I do not see a downside to that.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

unienaule · Apr 25, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

There's no reason to get on a forum and bash people just because they can actually play Guild Wars and you can't, when it's due to an incredibly bad lag problem. Closed.