Curse

Swift Thief · Apr 27, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

TRappers are underpowered. You can't move traps...

Vermilion · Apr 27, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

Second, as a ranger, mind that rangers have very limited farming options and we NEED the admittedly fubar traps.

End of story. You can go off on your 55 monk and strike gold, but the little people need their traps.

I would agree, at least until the point that traps are causing an imbalance somewhere that matters. We aren't at that point yet

Jetdoc · Apr 27, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

If you give a trapper enough time to set up 10+ traps that you sprung....maybe you should rethink your targeting? It only takes one hit to ruin a trapper's day/

J.Kougar · Apr 27, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nkah Sennyt

Uh, yeah. That. Traps are only overpowered if you're... I don't wanna say dumb enough, but that's the only phrase that comes to mind... to walk into them.

Also, two [well, one conjoined] word[s] for you if you're having walking-into-trap trouble: Pre-prot.

Uh, you should really read posts before replying to them, it'll make you look a lot less foolish in the future. lol

As I said, the trappers like to trap teleport landing sites, so you don't walk into them, you teleport there, and have no way of knowing what's down there when you do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Whats needs to happen, imo, is someone on your team needs to identify that trapper, so whenever anyone sees him wander off, just wand him repeatedly. or at least mark the trap by pinging the map.

Heck you can nullify his whole trap setup by going "He trapped the teleporter pads, dont go there."

Ever try to get 12 people in Alliance Battles on four teams, to work together? Not exactly going to happen, and there is so much land to cover it's too hard t keep an eye on everyone. I know, I've snuck off to do the same thing before, and it's eay not to be noticed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

If your not smart enough to see that running over a spot a ranger has been camping for a long time isn't smart you deserve to die too. To plant those 5 Spike Traps you'd need to be casting traps for at least 60 seconds with QZ up at least.

Read the post please, walking into them isn't an issue.

It's easy not to do that, but if you can't see where you're about to be teleported... it's an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJudson

That's pretty funny....but in his defense I don't think there is much anyone can do when smacked with all those traps at once. Hence the title of the thread, "Instant Death Traps".

Yea, but people aren't smart enough to read a post before they reply to it, they'd rather just skim it then make a reply and end up looking foolish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anshin

if you fell more then once in that trap... im sorry for you...

Not in the same AB, no. I used the porter several times with no issue, then blam! So I went out the front door and killed the Trapper, but the last time it happened I wasn't the only one through the portal at the same time, and several people died in the explosion. If I get hit once then I don't trust that trapper not to do so again, but often I can do several ABs without seeing a trapper, then next thing you know there are several.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sub Frost

# Spike Trap: increased damage to 10..40.
# Trapper's Focus: increased duration to 5..25 seconds.
# Tripwire: increased damage to 5..20.

This updates?

Yes i can see the problem here... such overpowered raw, insane, cataclysmic buffs are indeed a problem...

Uh, FYI... but the attempted 'Sarcasm' thing isn't working well for you, especially when you don't figure in the damage the traps do at a 16 in Wilderness, or the damage they can do when you have 5 or more of each of them go off on you at one time in one spot. Keep trying though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Wasnt your team paying attention to the ranger who sat there laying traps o.o?

In Alliance Battles? lol no ...not with all that land to cover and all those people and NPCs running everywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

If you give a trapper enough time to set up 10+ traps that you sprung....maybe you should rethink your targeting? It only takes one hit to ruin a trapper's day/

As I keep saying... AB... with all that land to cover and all those people and NPCs... not really so easy to do when one person sneaks off to the side where no one is at and starts dropping traps.

Raaaaa · Apr 27, 2007, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Thing with trappers is they spend 1-2minutes laying down those traps, if they dont get interupted and someone does trigger them all they might get the one kill but then have to spend another 2minutes laying down more.
In a dps basis they're not that great :P

ShadowsRequiem · Apr 27, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

I've played trapper in AB and people are so damn stupid that play in there omg..... The same people keep coming out of the same warp pad OVER and OVER and keep getting killed....

Moral of the story, people are stupid. Tell your teammates to go a diff way, or maybe you should be smart enough to draw the conclusions that yes there is a trapper around be careful while piling on to shrines, and using warp pads.

dont give them even more reasons to keep trapping the same spot.

Sub Frost · Apr 27, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

Uh, FYI... but the attempted 'Sarcasm' thing isn't working well for you, especially when you don't figure in the damage the traps do at a 16 in Wilderness, or the damage they can do when you have 5 or more of each of them go off on you at one time in one spot. Keep trying though.

Well considering your "rant", the slightly humorous road seemed the best option, but i see your taking this way to seriously so please do continue your "explanations".

Chthon · Apr 27, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

Maybe I'm just not looking at it the right way, but does anyone else think it's a little over powered for a single character to do 500+ damage in a second or two?

Well, for starters, s/he's doing 500+ damage, but not really over a second or two. A trapper spends a pretty long setup time doing zero damage and being a sitting duck for getting interrupted. If you count the setup time, that trapper is probably doing a lot less DPS to your team than any of his/her teammates. They only get kills because you happened to help them spike (trap) you.

Which brings up the other point, you kinda have to help a trapper in order from them to get you like this. If you know where the trapper's trapping (and you ought to because both the animation and the strategy are pretty obvious), all you need to do is refrain from stepping on the traps. There's very few places you have to step. And all of those ought to be places you don't let the trapper just wander into and trap. I'd hazard a guess that your team was already losing if the trapper had easy access to places you had to step. (Now, you might argue that there're some places on some maps that you have to step, but can't reasonably be expected to keep a trapper away from. But those are problems of map design, not problems with trappers being inherently overpowered.)

Curse You · Apr 27, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

Not in the same AB, no. I used the porter several times with no issue, then blam! So I went out the front door and killed the Trapper, but the last time it happened I wasn't the only one through the portal at the same time, and several people died in the explosion. If I get hit once then I don't trust that trapper not to do so again, but often I can do several ABs without seeing a trapper, then next thing you know there are several.

Can't you see the other side of the teleporters in all the AB maps? Usually when I see an enemy on the "exit" pad, I assume that they're up to something.
Also, you can select them and see what skills they are using. If you see that they are using traps, then maybe, just maybe, they are laying traps on the exit.

The best solution I see, is pay more attention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

Ever try to get 12 people in Alliance Battles on four teams, to work together? Not exactly going to happen, and there is so much land to cover it's too hard t keep an eye on everyone. I know, I've snuck off to do the same thing before, and it's eay not to be noticed.

That's why I don't do AB very much anymore. The co-operation aspect is almost never there.
What you describe is not something that can be easily fixed by ArenaNet, it's a lack of good community in AB.

J.Kougar · Apr 27, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

I've played trapper in AB and people are so damn stupid that play in there omg..... The same people keep coming out of the same warp pad OVER and OVER and keep getting killed....

Moral of the story, people are stupid. Tell your teammates to go a diff way, or maybe you should be smart enough to draw the conclusions that yes there is a trapper around be careful while piling on to shrines, and using warp pads.

dont give them even more reasons to keep trapping the same spot.

...and as I already said, I do this... yes... I go for the trapper once he's gotten me once, but the problem is that, like you said, most people in AB are not very smart... and they sure as heck don't communicate with each other... so... yea, that's the issue.
The people on Guild Wars aren't going to get any smarter, or any more creative... so like with every other exploit, gimmick build, and cheap tricks... ArenaNet needs to nerf it, just like they do everything else. Heck, if they can nerf an entire attribute line because of some PvP abuse, why not add a little more recharge time to traps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sub Frost

Well considering your "rant", the slightly humorous road seemed the best option, but i see your taking this way to seriously so please do continue your "explanations".

I ranted? Where? I made a post and tried to give as much information as possible in it, since I know how people on these forums tend to be (not able or willing to read the majority of things) and then explained things in the most simple way I could, aside from trying extra hard to use small words for the really slow folks, and even still people post and try to act like traps can't be stacked or such... when really, if they don't know anything about traps or their damage, they really shouldn't say anything.

As you may have also missed in this thread, I said that I too play a trapper in such places, and it's very easy to just destroy someone when they port... but that doesn't man it's not a bit overpowered that we can do so, right?

lyra_song · Apr 27, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

You could have taken the opposite way and his traps would have gone off by themselves.

Really this isnt about skill or overpoweredness. Its just dumb luck and the AB is the only setting hectic enough for a trapper to be able to spike you like that.

My experience with AB is generally pretty good. I like to "rally" the other teams and point out where the enemy is going and how many are where so they know whats going on and my team does the same. If they didnt nerf the Paragon for AB, id be ABing more heavily.

Curse You · Apr 27, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

People being stupid is hardly a reason to nerf something (look at touch rangers).

J.Kougar, I'd like to point out to you that, what you're doing (quoting numberous people in one "super post"), generally, doesn't work (from what I've seen). It tends to be associated with someone who is over-reacting to the replies, usually taking them too seriously, or being stubborn.

So basically; back down, and cool off. Go do something else and check this thread later. You may realize that you were flawed when you wrote your OP (I know I've done it before).

Zegorzalek · Apr 27, 2007, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

If your not smart enough to see that running over a spot a ranger has been camping for a long time isn't smart you deserve to die too. To plant those 5 Spike Traps you'd need to be casting traps for at least 60 seconds with QZ up at least.

Traps are not overpowered. In order for traps to do major damage like that 500+ you stated they need to be stacked. They need to have QZ/EW up. They need someone to run over them! They do exactly what they're suppose to do, if you come wandering over to them, they make you suffer.

Besides, SoA COMPLETELY destroys a stack of traps damage, if they've managed to set that many traps and you didn't notice... thats your problem.

And i don't want to hear all the PvP'ers whining about how they got pwnd by the most obvious, most avoidable method of dieing in the game. They're for pressure, protection of key players/spirits and to kill idiots. I don't PvP often, but i do remember the time a warrior ran upto me and the other trapper covering hte entrance to our 'base' and tried to Frenzy attack us... People that stupid deserve anything they get.

Traps are fine.

/signed...QFT...and could not have said it any better/different (likes my traps, my moa, and my poisoned arrows...)

Miral · Apr 27, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

If your not smart enough to see that running over a spot a ranger has been camping for a long time isn't smart you deserve to die too. To plant those 5 Spike Traps you'd need to be casting traps for at least 60 seconds with QZ up at least.

Traps are not overpowered. In order for traps to do major damage like that 500+ you stated they need to be stacked. They need to have QZ/EW up. They need someone to run over them! They do exactly what they're suppose to do, if you come wandering over to them, they make you suffer.

Besides, SoA COMPLETELY destroys a stack of traps damage, if they've managed to set that many traps and you didn't notice... thats your problem.

And i don't want to hear all the PvP'ers whining about how they got pwnd by the most obvious, most avoidable method of dieing in the game. They're for pressure, protection of key players/spirits and to kill idiots. I don't PvP often, but i do remember the time a warrior ran upto me and the other trapper covering hte entrance to our 'base' and tried to Frenzy attack us... People that stupid deserve anything they get.

Traps are fine.

this is actually one of those things thats different from the norm. usually anet nerfs stuff that is decent in pve because its overpowered in pvp. with traps, they buffed something thats already overpowered in pve because it was underused in pvp. in all cases, pvp screws with pve :/ traps are definitely overpowered in pve. this is just more evidence of the fact that anet NEEDS to separate pvp / pve skill functionality.

arcanemacabre · Apr 27, 2007, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

You could have taken the opposite way and his traps would have gone off by themselves.

Really this isnt about skill or overpoweredness. Its just dumb luck and the AB is the only setting hectic enough for a trapper to be able to spike you like that.

Agree with this, mostly. I AB a lot, and for one, I rarely use the teleporters, save for the start. Secondly, that ranger is going to spend a lot of time laying that many traps, Trapper's Speed or not. Probably more time than it takes for you to res. Either way, that means one man down from both sides for a period of time, making it equal as far as capping goes - the most important thing in AB - not kills. I'd just laugh at that strategy because it leaves them down one man probably longer that your side would be down you.

The only thing chalked up to luck here would be if more than one of you get hit by all the traps. In that case, a pat on their back for a decent strategy, but no more effective than one good player taking out 2-3 others at a time, as I have before. It's just a heck of a lot less dependable, and likewise a waste of time.

lyra_song · Apr 27, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

this is actually one of those things thats different from the norm. usually anet nerfs stuff that is decent in pve because its overpowered in pvp. with traps, they buffed something thats already overpowered in pve because it was underused in pvp. in all cases, pvp screws with pve :/ traps are definitely overpowered in pve. this is just more evidence of the fact that anet NEEDS to separate pvp / pve skill functionality.

Traps are powerful. But they have 2 very very very glaring weaknesses:
1) Easy to interrupt
2) Long activation time

They are only overpowered in PvE because monsters are stupid.

They arent over powered in PvP because if you start trapping, someone's gonna camp you and kill you. Trappers in general are easy to kill before they start laying traps.

I think a better "nerf" to traps would be to make monsters smarter.

Nkah Sennyt · Apr 27, 2007, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

Uh, you should really read posts before replying to them, it'll make you look a lot less foolish in the future. lol

You should get owned by less traps, it'll make you look a lot less foolish in the future. lol

Trakata · Apr 27, 2007, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nkah Sennyt

You should get owned by less traps, it'll make you look a lot less foolish in the future. lol

QFT. I mean, really, is it so hard to:

1. Not use the teleporters?
2. See that there's someone standing on your teleporter (IIRC you can see the other side in all AB maps) and deduct that maybe he's doin' something fishy?

It's like complaining that Eviscerate hit you and did damage and gave you deep wound. Traps are designed to do a lot of damage over a short period of time, with the downside of being immobile, on a timer, slow to recharge, high energy cost, and easily interruptable. It works in PvE because, as said before, monsters are dumb. Don't be as predictable as monster AI.

Mercury Angel · Apr 27, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

While opinions are welcome to be expressed, and advice given, there's only so much condescension that can be slipped into a post before it hits the point of trolling. This applies to a wide range of people who have posted in this thread.

As an added note, this is neither Sardelac Sanitarium nor Gladiator's Arena, or even The Campfire, which would be the ideal locations to either suggest changes to skills, or otherwise discuss this, ideally.

If you still want to press the issue, I suggest giving this issue a fresh start, as this thread is near irredeemable at this point.