Curse

Henchman · May 05, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

The Guild wars staff announced several months ago that over 3 million copies of the 3 campaigns were sold (I don't have a link with the proof, but I would apperciate if someone would post it).
The question I have, is how many of these accounts are bots?
I'm guessing that their accounts have to be purchased somehow, as I doubt they can crack the account key generating fomula.
And as Gaile Gray mentioned in the thread below, over 2000 bot accounts are banned per week.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10152864

That means, that within a 1.5 year time period(about 80 weeks, the 3 million mark was hit a about a year and 8 months after the release of Prophecies), you'd have about 160,000 bot accounts, which is over 5% of total sales.
And let us not forget, that this calculation does not include bots which are not caught.
Therefore, I assume it is safe to say that 5%-10% of all accounts are bots!
A conspiracy would be to say that Anet supports bot accounts, as such a huge percent of sales comes from them.

I have no idea where I am going with this thread, but I do figure that the statistics are interesting, and should be disscussed. And does anyone care to differ with them?

allience · May 05, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

nah anet doesn't support bots coz they nerfed farming. actually i think anet doesn't rly like anything except making changes that make ppl whine.
i think their main philosophy is: look guys, things are going well! let's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it up with some random nerfs.

KANE OG · May 05, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Over 3 million copies nerfed......

KANE

Markaedw · May 05, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

I would like to see that 3.5 mill broken down:

1. combined account, for instance assuming (yes I know the assuming joke) that every account is merged then that 3.5 mil could really be 1.12 mil accounts.

2. how many accounts are active, for instance out of my guild only 3 have signed in in the last 30 days.

3. how many have been cancelled due to bot or othe EULA violations.

4. now the tuffy; mule accounts, I have 2 accounts, one just for mules.

The true test of "the state of the game" is not how many units have been sold but how many active players there are.

kumarshah · May 05, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Why does it matter?

reetkever · May 06, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by kumarshah

Why does it matter?

Well if you sold 3,5 million copies, and only 500.000 people are playing the game... There should be some changes made, I think ^^

Angel's Sorrow · May 06, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

It would be so easy for anet to just create money with the click of a button and sell them through these infamous sites...Easier than thinking of ways to support bots and being so blatant by allowing certain areas to brim with bots. Oh wait...That already happens. Maybe this is indeed more subtle than simply creating money?

For those who whine about every criticism to anet and regard these as conspiracy theories, this is a joke...Grow a sense of humor and quit being spoiled fanboissssss

NoChance · May 06, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

interesting statistics....

when Gaile said that over 2000 accounts are banned per week, that must have been during the height of the game -- i would guess this was not the case when the game first came out... so I think your estimate of 160,000 bots is probably somewhat of an overestimate...

however, even if it were 100,000 bot accounts banned, that's about 3% of total sales. and like you say, considering all the bots not banned, it looks like a surprisingly large percentage of sales are to bots!

Markaedw · May 06, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Didn't I read soemwhere there was a game that had almost as many bots as real player?

Trakata · May 06, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

IIRC that's Lineage II.

Yichi · May 06, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markaedw

Didn't I read soemwhere there was a game that had almost as many bots as real player?

That used to be Diablo 2...

Alderin · May 06, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markaedw

I would like to see that 3.5 mill broken down:

1. combined account, for instance assuming (yes I know the assuming joke) that every account is merged then that 3.5 mil could really be 1.12 mil accounts.

2. how many accounts are active, for instance out of my guild only 3 have signed in in the last 30 days.

3. how many have been cancelled due to bot or othe EULA violations.

4. now the tuffy; mule accounts, I have 2 accounts, one just for mules.

Thats what I've been wondering, the actual broken down versions. Number 1 and 2 would very greatly reduce their numbers alone.

As for number 4, I have a total of five mule accounts that have all campaigns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markaedw

The true test of "the state of the game" is not how many units have been sold but how many active players there are.

While the total number sold is important the number of those still playing is usually more important. It shows that the game is alive and doing well rather than a failure because people bought it but stopped playing.

The more people that are still playing means the better the game is, and also means it is a lot easier for the company, in this case ArenaNet, to get backers/investors to support them while they work on new campaigns or as of now Guild Wars 2. So doing weekend events and Holiday events and adding other things such as Hard Mode is kind of a must to keep people playing and interested in the game so they will buy the lastest chapter/version and to help them get backers/investors. If a companty can't keep it's customers/players past the initial sale or two, and they don't have enough return customers and people to get others to join... then they won't be able to make as much from sales, even of new chapters that are later created... and no investor is going to want to risk losing money on a company that can't keep it's customers/players. One shot sales of a game where the customers go and tell their friends that it's not worth getting, instead of that it's great and to join them... isn't going to stay in business long, in the long run.

Gaile Gray · May 06, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Most bots do not use purchased accounts. Ever wonder where the stolen accounts go? In many, many cases, the account is stolen through a trojan that is installed along with a supposed "cheat" or "hack" or through a password that is guessed by people who make it their business to steal accounts. Then that stolen account is used until it is blocked, and a new stolen account is used. That's sad, but true. So in that case, the account is still counted as one sale, even if it ends up being used by more than one person.

A second way that bots do their thing is through the use of trial keys. You will have noticed that we have not real been big on "free 14-day trials" over the last two years. We do some trials, but we do them conservatively, because a study of bot blocks showed us that the vast majority were using trial keys, which, again, are not counted as sales. They bot, they get blocked, they use another trial key, wash, rinse, and repeat.

(You may also have noticed that there are limitations on the trial keys -- if you wondered why they have some aspects of a retail key disabled, that is why: to reduce the blight of bots!)

While you can reduce numbers for some percent of bot purchases, consider also that legitimate accounts are, despite it being disallowed, sold to others. That "sales" doesn't count on our numbers, either, but would actually raise the sales figures if taken into consideration.

Hope that's helpful info!

HawkofStorms · May 06, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

I doubt the "2000 bots a week" number that Galie just mentioned the other day has been consistant throughout the history of the game.
I have a feeling that's a relatively new number. After all, with all the loot scaling changes, bot farming companies now have to employ more accounts to get the same money.

*edit* - ohh I'm too slow. Galie got here first. Good point on the stolen accounts too.

ogre-mage · May 06, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman

The Guild wars staff announced several months ago that over 3 million copies of the 3 campaigns were sold (I don't have a link with the proof, but I would apperciate if someone would post it).
The question I have, is how many of these accounts are bots?
I'm guessing that their accounts have to be purchased somehow, as I doubt they can crack the account key generating fomula.
And as Gaile Gray mentioned in the thread below, over 2000 bot accounts are banned per week.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10152864

That means, that within a 1.5 year time period(about 80 weeks, the 3 million mark was hit a about a year and 8 months after the release of Prophecies), you'd have about 160,000 bot accounts, which is over 5% of total sales.
And let us not forget, that this calculation does not include bots which are not caught.
Therefore, I assume it is safe to say that 5%-10% of all accounts are bots!
A conspiracy would be to say that Anet supports bot accounts, as such a huge percent of sales comes from them.

I have no idea where I am going with this thread, but I do figure that the statistics are interesting, and should be disscussed. And does anyone care to differ with them?

And no groups for me in missions and/or outposts. Fantastic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Most bots do not use purchased accounts. Ever wonder where the stolen accounts go? In many, many cases, the account is stolen through a trojan that is installed along with a supposed "cheat" or "hack" or through a password that is guessed by people who make it their business to steal accounts. Then that stolen account is used until it is blocked, and a new stolen account is used. That's sad, but true. So in that case, the account is still counted as one sale, even if it ends up being used by more than one person.

A second way that bots do their thing is through the use of trial keys. You will have noticed that we have not real been big on "free 14-day trials" over the last two years. We do some trials, but we do them conservatively, because a study of bot blocks showed us that the vast majority were using trial keys, which, again, are not counted as sales. They bot, they get blocked, they use another trial key, wash, rinse, and repeat. (You may also have noticed that there are limitations on the trial keys -- if you wondered why they have some aspects of a retail key disabled, that is why: to reduce the blight of bots!)

While you can reduce numbers for some percent of bot purchases, consider also that legitimate accounts are, despite it being disallowed, sold to others. That "sales" doesn't count on our numbers, either, but would actually raise the sales figures if taken into consideration.

Hope that's helpful info!

So why not kick your people in the face until they let us (finally) to change our USERNAMES on our accounts, which has always been a HUGE security flaw.

What a revelation.

EDIT: No Gaile, I don't REALLY expect you to ever listen to us on this.

Angel's Sorrow · May 06, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Most bots do not use purchased accounts. Ever wonder where the stolen accounts go? In many, many cases, the account is stolen through a trojan that is installed along with a supposed "cheat" or "hack" or through a password that is guessed by people who make it their business to steal accounts. Then that stolen account is used until it is blocked, and a new stolen account is used. That's sad, but true. So in that case, the account is still counted as one sale, even if it ends up being used by more than one person.

A second way that bots do their thing is through the use of trial keys. You will have noticed that we have not real been big on "free 14-day trials" over the last two years. We do some trials, but we do them conservatively, because a study of bot blocks showed us that the vast majority were using trial keys, which, again, are not counted as sales. They bot, they get blocked, they use another trial key, wash, rinse, and repeat.

(You may also have noticed that there are limitations on the trial keys -- if you wondered why they have some aspects of a retail key disabled, that is why: to reduce the blight of bots!)

Wow...Then accounts must be stolen pretty pretty often and I'm surprised there is no complain (or a few) of accounts being stolen in guild wars forums. For the horde of bots out there, accounts should be stolen pretty darn often.
And trial keys...Gaile herself said that these are pretty limited.
Moreover, I've heard these trial keys are pretty limited...Like 14day with a total of 10 hours? Are botters that proficient in rushing characters? Even with the fastest rush it takes about 5+ hours. And even so, how would they get trial keys so often?
Sounds like a waste of time and money. Wasting 5 hours playing through the game only to farm 5 hours? No profit in there for them. Not to mention that these accounts are not full accounts.
That explanation sounds pretty weird.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

While you can reduce numbers for some percent of bot purchases, consider also that legitimate accounts are, despite it being disallowed, sold to others. That "sales" doesn't count on our numbers, either, but would actually raise the sales figures if taken into consideration.

Hope that's helpful info!

Yea. That pretty much happens with any game. Imagine how wow sales would increase also or sales of any other game if they counted sales of used games or accounts. Funny.

viper11025 · May 06, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

LOL there are ways around the farm nerf.

Bryant Again · May 06, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel's Sorrow

Wow...Then accounts must be stolen pretty pretty often and I'm surprised there is no complain (or a few) of accounts being stolen in guild wars forums. For the horde of bots out there, accounts should be stolen pretty darn often.
And trial keys...Gaile herself said that these are pretty limited.
Moreover, I've heard these trial keys are pretty limited...Like 14day with a total of 10 hours? Are botters that proficient in rushing characters? Even with the fastest rush it takes about 5+ hours. And even so, how would they get trial keys so often?
Sounds like a waste of time and money. Wasting 5 hours playing through the game only to farm 5 hours? No profit in there for them. Not to mention that these accounts are not full accounts.
That explanation sounds pretty weird.

I'm gonna agree with you there - that's a shit load of stolen, then banned, accounts. Very inconvienient to get your account stolen and then locked, ouch.

Also, when you're using a trial account, are you able to trade with other players? If that was true, that would help out the bot problem a lot, in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper11025

LOL there are ways around the farm nerf.

Wrong thread.

TurinPT · May 06, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

whine whine whine

keep it to yourself.

Chestnut · May 06, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Heres the funny thing, 2 months ago I wrote down 30 names of the bots in the Citidel.. K, so I still have this list.. I went there this morning and saw atleats 10 of the same names on my list... still.. and the same gender and color tattos as well.. .. so.. that 2000 bots a week thing? why lie? the same bots have been botting the citdel for about 3 or 4 months now.